UKMT March 2019 - we live in a hell world of piss and shit.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT March 2019 - we live in a hell world of piss and shit.

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One Pigeon: Jun 21, 2013

Guavanaut posted:

This one?

That's not the one but it's also handy. Thanks.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:13

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 19:42

kingturnip: Apr 18, 2008

OwlFancier posted:

Has anyone pointed out to her that the EU's been very clear that it requires commitment to the backstop in return for any sort of deal?

Nothing the EU have said so far seems to have sunk in, so it's possible people aren't even bothering to point these things out to her now

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:14

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

Also note that the NI Civil Service made a statement today that they can not release further necessary funding for the vaunted Casement Park redevelopment in West Belfast without advice from a Minister (who ain't around because of the whole executive not existing thing).

Might make some in SF slightly wary about getting the blame if it all falls apart

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:14

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

One Pigeon posted:

Does anybody have a link to that cartoon which contains people protesting and a guy moaning about them getting a coffee and using things from society?
I seem to remember it from around when people were camped outside Bank in London and around the UK.
It would just be far easier for me to post that in the other online groups I'm in, than get into a conversation with a lot of the people whining about kids with plastic bags on their marches today.

I distinctly remember Louise Mensch saying this on TV a lot around the time of the Occupy protests. This was some time before it became evident that she isn't just a foaming at the mouth right wing mouthpiece but almost certainly has an actual mental health condition. Seems it is a fine line, sometimes.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:17

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

crispix posted:

I distinctly remember Louise Mensch saying this on TV a lot around the time of the Occupy protests. This was some time before it became evident that she isn't just a foaming at the mouth right wing mouthpiece but almost certainly has an actual mental health condition. Seems it is a fine line, sometimes.

She definitely brought it up on HIGNFY once and Danny Baker ripped her to shreds over it.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:18

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Julio Cruz posted:

She definitely brought it up on HIGNFY once and Danny Baker ripped her to shreds over it.

It was Paul Merton.

Premptive :thejoke:

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:22

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

Brendan Cox said that "far-right terrorism is less of a threat than Islamic terrorism" on channel 4 just now.

By what metric? Seems like an insanely stupid thing for someone to say, especially when your partner was killed by the far-right.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:26

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Bedshaped posted:

Brendan Cox said that "far-right terrorism is less of a threat than Islamic terrorism" on channel 4 just now.

By what metric? Seems like an insanely stupid thing for someone to say, especially when your partner was killed by the far-right.

Well you see he's watched all these youtube videos....

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:27

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Jose posted:

I knew american uni costs were insanely bad but jfc

https://twitter.com/dailyfreepress/status/1106580114584883200

To be fair they don't all cost that much. In state tuition at University of Michigan is about the same as the �9,250 that's the current standard whack here, for example.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:28

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

I see some people (not on here) trying to make out that the shooter this morning was a far-left anarchist :rollyeyes:

Question: Can anyone point me to "What does Chan mean 101" - I've seen it on here occasionally but quite a few times today and no idea what it is referring to. The only thing I could find that seems of any vague relevance is a 4chan message board place. Is that it? (Apologies for being an Old)

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:31

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Bedshaped posted:

Brendan Cox said that "far-right terrorism is less of a threat than Islamic terrorism" on channel 4 just now.

By what metric? Seems like an insanely stupid thing for someone to say, especially when your partner was killed by the far-right.

I mean, it is less of a threat if you're white :v:

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:33

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

4chan is an imageboard for racists and sexists and bigots who got banned from here and then grew.

8chan is an imageboard for the people so bad they couldn't post on 4chan anymore including pedos and Qanon fanatics.

The shooter posted on 8chan.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:34

Ursine Catastrophe: Nov 9, 2009; It's a lovely morning in the void and you are a horrible lady-in-waiting.

don't ask how i know; Dinosaur Gum

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

I see some people (not on here) trying to make out that the shooter this morning was a far-left anarchist :rollyeyes:

Question: Can anyone point me to "What does Chan mean 101" - I've seen it on here occasionally but quite a few times today and no idea what it is referring to. The only thing I could find that seems of any vague relevance is a 4chan message board place. Is that it? (Apologies for being an Old)

4chan is a spinoff of people who were too edgy for 2003 Something Awful

8chan is a spinoff of 4chan for people who were too edgy/pedo for 2010ish 4chan

efb

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:35

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

I see some people (not on here) trying to make out that the shooter this morning was a far-left anarchist :rollyeyes:

Question: Can anyone point me to "What does Chan mean 101" - I've seen it on here occasionally but quite a few times today and no idea what it is referring to. The only thing I could find that seems of any vague relevance is a 4chan message board place. Is that it? (Apologies for being an Old)

The chans are message boards, yes. There's a bunch of them, 4chan is the archetypical one. Their defining feature is that they're anonymous, you can post without registering. You can use a password to give your post a hash which will identify it as originating from someone who knows a particular password, but there's no usernames.

They're generally infested with people who are extremely online, like, pathologically so. And their anonymous nature and, generally, extremely laissez faire attitude to moderation, mean they are generally full of really horrible poo poo.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:35

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

namesake posted:

4chan is an imageboard for racists and sexists and bigots who got banned from here and then grew.

8chan is an imageboard for the people so bad they couldn't post on 4chan anymore including pedos and Qanon fanatics.

The shooter posted on 8chan.

I expect to be beaten a lot by this, but 2ch was a Japanese image board, then a guy who got banned from Somethingawful for being too much of an internet edgelord made a copy called 4chan to retain that internet wild west feel if the wild west was Cyril Smith's Polaroid book.

Then they cleaned house a bit and all the pedos went and formed 8chan for true free speech experience.

There's also a bunch of other chans, like 1d4chan for dice and board games and being an edgelord, and 420chan which was mostly for drugs and chemistry (drugs) and engineering (bongs) but also had a supportive trans board that wasn't a loving trashfire.

Chans themselves are just BBSes that are divided into a number of themed subboards and usually allow anonymous posting and images, so you know where that too often ends up, but they're not bad in and of themselves if mods care.

8chan was though. 8chan's politics board especially.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:40

Verizian: Dec 18, 2004; The spiky one.

Didn't 4chan start because Lowtax said to stop posting underage anime porn and the nazis just sort of congealed around the peado-core over the following decade and a half? Until the same thing happened on 4chan to form 8chan at which point it just concentrated the dregs of the internet.

Then there's also the scientologists and kekists which brings in all kinds of conspiracy theories and insane cultist poo poo that makes the politics of pulp horror seem mundane.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:41

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

4chan was anti-scientology because it was a cult, and formed anon (not really a real thing) to expose poo poo they did.

8chan invented kek and meme magic because they're a cult, and formed Qanon (not really a real thing) to poo poo all over themselves.

e: Both were too tolerant of pedos though, not going to dispute that.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:43

Trevor Hale: Dec 8, 2008; What have I become, my Swedish friend?

feedmegin posted:

To be fair they don't all cost that much. In state tuition at University of Michigan is about the same as the �9,250 that's the current standard whack here, for example.

American here. In state tuition is trickier because you�ll usually not receive grants from the school. So the sticker price is what you pay.

Private schools with a sticker price of $55,000 are probably going to give you 20-30000 in grants before you even get to loans.

Private schools are usually cheaper than the big name public schools (UMichigan, U of Illinois, etc) for this reason.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:46

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Chans: thanks. I just did a brief recce in a 4chan board. Yeah. Don't think I'll be going back.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:50

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

baka kaba posted:

You're talking about being a villain from the perspective of leftists or "normies" or whatever though. Of course they'll attack and frustrate leftists, engage in bad faith, troll without any real convictions and so on. But those are just the methods, at the heart of it they believe they're justified on some level, even if they don't have a coherent sense of exactly what it is they believe and why. Like I mean, turns out that a lot of ironic racists actually hold racist views when you get down to it. Funny that

Bannon is more what I'm talking about though, not individual idiots but the people actually pushing a movement. Do you really think Bannon doesn't believe anything he says, he's not actually a white supremacist, he's not building a network of far-right media and political institutions because he's invested in the ideology... he's just a neutral moustache-twirling villain who's bored and has decided this is the best way to sow chaos, because he gets a kick out of it? Really?

Let me flip it around, though - if every Muslim on the planet vanished tomorrow, do you reckon Bannon would suddenly become a generous, friendly family man or would he immediately start looking for someone else to hurt? One of the most striking things about fascism is how quickly hardcore fascists can switch targets and justifications - it's not about hurting specific people in order to help some clearly-defined in-group, but about hurting people for the beauty and pleasure of it because altruism and empathy are lies created by sociopaths just like you to give them a leg up. The early fascist and protofascist texts are really explicit about this - the Futurist Manifesto speaks for itself, and the Doctrine of Fascism specifically rejects the pursuit of happiness as a goal and instead suggests the pursuit of constant warfare to purify and beautify the nation.

You see it in the standard Internet radicalisation process as well - most of the web culture in the chans, certain subreddits, and, yes, certain parts of SA (even if we've been gradually trying to move past it) is not explicitly political, but is about aggressive desensitisation. The world is scummy, people are scummy, you will be exposed to horrific poo poo, and if you react to any of it with anything other than a 'lol' and a tasteless joke, you're a wimp and a moralfag who needs to harden the gently caress up. Once you've internalised that attitude, where joy is only acceptable if it comes from other people's suffering, it's time to start finding targets. This is not to say 8channers aren't racists, per se, it's just that pervasive social bigotry only shapes their target list for relieving their nihilistic sadism rather than instilling in them any true desire to be a good guy, because good guys are moralfags.

Yes, I know 'you are what you pretend to be' is often broadly applicable to the Internet, but I think that the way these folks use layers of irony and detachment to seal themselves off from the real world is a genuine issue. It means that you cannot reach them in the same way that you might a true believer who's openly willing to care about other people (within a certain, narrow in-group) and do terrible things to protect them.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:53

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

One Pigeon posted:

That's not the one but it's also handy. Thanks.

It was probly this one?

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Chans: thanks. I just did a brief recce in a 4chan board. Yeah. Don't think I'll be going back.

I think you can just open a page, do whatever to make the page scroll down real fast so it's a blur, and your brain will still pick out enough slurs and racist images to get the general vibe

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:56

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Here's another slightly different one:

# ? Mar 15, 2019 20:58

Ratjaculation: Aug 3, 2007

Hey, odd question but is there a organisation like the Samaritans but for people who are worried there views are extreme?

I just doubled down on someone and they're seeing light but I don't know what else I can do

Like Hope not Hate, but someone to speak to.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:01

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

There's Prevent, but their analogy to the Samaritans would be getting a report that someone's standing on the edge of a bridge and coshing them on the head until they either don't want to jump or fall off.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:03

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Prevent

E: gently caress

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:04

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Darth Walrus posted:

Let me flip it around, though - if every Muslim on the planet vanished tomorrow, do you reckon Bannon would suddenly become a generous, friendly family man or would he immediately start looking for someone else to hurt? One of the most striking things about fascism is how quickly hardcore fascists can switch targets and justifications - it's not about hurting specific people in order to help some clearly-defined in-group, but about hurting people for the beauty and pleasure of it because altruism and empathy are lies created by sociopaths just like you to give them a leg up. The early fascist and protofascist texts are really explicit about this - the Futurist Manifesto speaks for itself, and the Doctrine of Fascism specifically rejects the pursuit of happiness as a goal and instead suggests the pursuit of constant warfare to purify and beautify the nation.

You see it in the standard Internet radicalisation process as well - most of the web culture in the chans, certain subreddits, and, yes, certain parts of SA (even if we've been gradually trying to move past it) is not explicitly political, but is about aggressive desensitisation. The world is scummy, people are scummy, you will be exposed to horrific poo poo, and if you react to any of it with anything other than a 'lol' and a tasteless joke, you're a wimp and a moralfag who needs to harden the gently caress up. Once you've internalised that attitude, where joy is only acceptable if it comes from other people's suffering, it's time to start finding targets. This is not to say 8channers aren't racists, per se, it's just that pervasive social bigotry only shapes their target list for relieving their nihilistic sadism rather than instilling in them any true desire to be a good guy, because good guys are moralfags.

Yes, I know 'you are what you pretend to be' is often broadly applicable to the Internet, but I think that the way these folks use layers of irony and detachment to seal themselves off from the real world is a genuine issue. It means that you cannot reach them in the same way that you might a true believer who's openly willing to care about other people (within a certain, narrow in-group) and do terrible things to protect them.

I'm not saying any of that's wrong (I mean I agree with pretty much all of it) but what I'm getting at is there's a specific relationship between the person, their targets, and their peers or allies or whatever. They're coming from a certain place, their targets are minorities, the left etc, and their allegiance and the power they want to build and defend is on the right. And the people they align and identify with follow the same broad strokes

Like sure, some people are heavily into violence and hurting people, revelling in images of suffering etc. But they're not doing it in a general sense, to just anyone, they're not enjoying and promoting those things when they affect their in-group - nazis, right-wingers, white people, men, whatever. They're doing it with "the enemy", whoever that happens to be. Bad things that happen to their own people aren't enjoyed^*, they're used as something to get revenge for. They always have some justification for it, some narrative, and it's usually a common one

Same for Bannon - sure he would probably switch targets once his crusade was won, but I think we could all guess at what his targets would or wouldn't be, because there's an ideological basis to it. He's not acting above base human prejudices as a pure agent of chaos. And arguably he never would "win", because prejudices take whatever form is necessary to create an out-group for attacking. There'd always be someone, but they wouldn't be random - there's a consistency to it

^*I'm not saying they won't abstractly post this stuff as "haha here is a person suffering", but when the context is there it changes things. If they never cared about context, that would be different

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:19

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

the NZ shooter made his money from crypto apparently.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:20

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

this is good for bitcoin

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:20

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I'd probably suggest that the lust for violence and suffering is, in a large part, caused by capitalism though. Like it's the alienation thing, why lovely times bring people to the right and left. So in a sense yeah I think some of them are just out for nonspecific violence and then become co-opted by the right because the right actively recruits angry, discontented people.

But at the same time they also try to produce them. Insert analogy to supply, demand, and the function of marketing here.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:22

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

I mean, 8channers trending towards the far-right seems like a particularly ugly example of the known phenomenon of small-c conservatives becoming big-C Conservatives. They've carved out a niche drinking in the shittiness of the status quo, meaning they don't want to shake the boat (so they'll go after easy targets within the current cultural consensus) and they'll greatly resent people who are interested in boat-shaking (those filthy SJWs who want to take their lols away). After a hefty dose of internet desensitisation to kill your empathy, it's really easy to see people as puppets for your entertainment and real easy to get mad when they want to be something more.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:45

Azza Bamboo: Apr 7, 2018; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

JFairfax posted:

the NZ shooter made his money from crypto apparently.

I can't believe bitcoin is implicated in net crimes.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:52

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

It's implicated in gross crimes too.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:54

Azza Bamboo: Apr 7, 2018; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

So when are we going to make the next step in any brexit decisions?

When will the EU council convene and have we timetabled any parliamentary discussions around that?

# ? Mar 15, 2019 22:06

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Ratjaculation posted:

Hey, odd question but is there a organisation like the Samaritans but for people who are worried there views are extreme?

I just doubled down on someone and they're seeing light but I don't know what else I can do

Like Hope not Hate, but someone to speak to.

I'd still try Samaritans. They're not just for suicides. At the very least they may be able to point the person at the right place.
Depending on age of person, if they are under 18, maybe NSPCC helpline (Childline 0800 1111) if they don't want to do Samaritans?

Here's another lot who might be able to help: https://info-radical.org/en/radicalization/taking-action/ (they're in Canada but might have something useful to say)

# ? Mar 15, 2019 22:07

WhatEvil: Jun 6, 2004; Can't get no luck.

Posting this in case anybody hasn't seen it yet:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3884184&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Lowtax's spine is hosed. He's had some surgery but it didn't fully sort him out so he needs more, he's massively in debt because of the medical bills and the forums don't give him much of an income anymore, so there's fundraising going on in order to keep Lowtax (and also the forums) alive.

Now is a good time to donate to the forums (directly through the forums gets him the biggest cut I think) - buying avatars, account upgrades etc. counts.

Also lots of people have signed up for his Patreon which was for his Gaming Garbage podcasts/Youtube stuff but is now a general "Rich Kyanka" patreon which will also support the forums.

https://www.patreon.com/GamingGarbage/overview

He's also going to be live on youtube tonight starting in 2 hours from now (which I guess will make it midnight in the UK): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS8BtqelTWU

# ? Mar 15, 2019 22:18

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

WhatEvil posted:

He's also going to be live on youtube tonight starting in 2 hours from now (which I guess will make it midnight in the UK): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS8BtqelTWU

11pm probably. Y'all change your clocks a few weeks earlier than us, thanks Dubya.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 22:21

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Yeah I threw in for that Patreon, only a little because I'm poor but hopefully it'll be enough to keep this hellsite running, bastion of goodness and LPs that it is.