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Intel&Sebastian posted:Yeah exactly, it's subjective, which is why it's ridiculous for anyone here to be calling out of bounds on someone else for saying "nah I still think James Gunn sucks". I've been here for almost 18 years and I certainly don't recall making any hilarious jokes about raping kids, I think that's pretty hosed up and a really dumb thing for anyone at any age to be posting in a public place. I also think he's genuinely contrite, this his apology was thoughtful and honest, and have no problem with him directing another Guardians. Then I don't know where you've posted because those jokes are depressingly common. Hell we had a subforum which was/is called Anime Death Tentacle Rape and spoiler, the characters in anime are not usually adults and that joke didn't come from thin air. I have no problem with disliking those kind of jokes. I dislike them myself no matter the form. I think it's 100% fine to say they're lovely jokes, but I think focusing on James Gunn and ignoring the overall culture when it is convenient for you is weird.
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Mar 15, 2019 23:36
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It’s hard for me to not look at things from a creative stand point in this case, because if I started a series and put my heart and soul in it, then lost it....I would want it back? Making art means things to people, and listening to Gunn talk about his process made him super relatable to me.
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Mar 15, 2019 23:38
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Also there’s an MJ thread on GBS if you want to see molestation jokes.
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Mar 15, 2019 23:39
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Guardians 2 was kaka and maybe this ordeal will improve his writing skills.
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Mar 15, 2019 23:41
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ImpAtom posted:Then I don't know where you've posted because those jokes are depressingly common. Hell we had a subforum which was/is called Anime Death Tentacle Rape and spoiler, the characters in anime are not usually adults and that joke didn't come from thin air. Yeah, that's a bad dumb thing to name a forum and I'd expect to not have a fun time if I had to explain my like 50 posts in the Eva thread that would have that name attached to them to some prospective employer. I'd probably be able to, seeing as I didn't name the subforum and don't own this place, and think I could reasonably explain that it's a reprehensible joke name for what's actually a pretty tame anime discussion forum. Because I'm not responsible for what other people do on SA, or the "culture" of SA, no matter how bad it is. I think there's degrees to this, because if I was posting on like Stormfront or 8chan....then yeah those places have an overall "theme" that you do have to answer for, but SA's very general and very big. You can hang out in populated places here for a decade that aren't GBS or the drug forums or whatever racist corner of TFF people post terrible poo poo in, and I do. James Gunn gets focused on because he personally made the jokes on his twitter. He's responsible. If he was on SA and someone two forums over made a kid rape joke, he wouldn't have been fired in the first place because he's not responsible for "the culture". I'll put it this way, I have a child and if I found them posting rape jokes on twitter they wouldn't be in any less trouble just because they tried a search for the same joke, got 50k hits and called it the culture of online or whatever. That it's depressingly common isn't an absolvent for getting involved. the idea that JG can be forgiven and we can move on doesn't require that we consider what he did in the first place "isn't that bad" or can be handwaved away as just a product of it's times. There ARE people who have been online for decades and didn't have 4chan troll phases, saying everyone does just perpetuates a wrong idea that being online is a license or an inevitable catalyst for being a lovely person. People struggle with the same concept when it comes to something more serious: IRL historical racism. People want to soften past racism and racist history by saying "well that's just how it was back when my grandpa was that age, he can't be blamed", which might be partially true but it also erases people who fought against the concept of racism back in those days and brought us to a place where it's not ok to call dates N-word toes or whatever. So no we don't need to cancel grandpa but we also don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater and pretend it was ok back then just because a lot of people were virulent racists. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Mar 16, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 23:53
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Yeah, that's a bad dumb thing to name a forum and I'd expect to not have a fun time if I had to explain my like 50 posts in the Eva thread that would have that name attached to them to some prospective employer. I'd probably be able to, seeing as I didn't name the subforum and don't own this place, and think I could reasonably explain that it's a reprehensible joke name for what's actually a pretty tame anime discussion forum. Because I'm not responsible for what other people do on SA, or the "culture" of SA, no matter how bad it is. I think we're probably miscommunicating and I apologize for that. I'll try to rephase. I think James Gunn is absolutely at fault for the jokes he made. I also think the jokes he made are, while really gross, being hugely overplayed in a way that other similar jokes wouldn't be. Offensive jokes are a minefield because yes, they can be genuinely hurtful or uncomfortable. They also can be a relief of pressure or an attempt to find comfort with uncomfortable situations. Every single person has their own metric for this and no metric is wrong. If a joke makes you uncomfortable then you are absolutely free to voice that feeling and any non-lovely person should at least respect that and shift their behavior. What I don't agree with is the idea that making a lovely joke makes you a lovely person who deserves to be fired no matter how long ago it was and the reason I'm discussing the culture around it is because there's a weird disconnect with how Gunn's tweets are treated versus... well, the massive massive amount of jokes of that subject matter and how seriously it is treated. I brought up the Aristocrats because it's a time-honored comedian joke and there is documented footage of everyone from Hank Azaria to the staff of the Onion telling it. Trey Parker and Matt Stone literally made a career out of jokes about children being murdered and molested. In an era where South Park is aired on TV every loving week it's genuinely hard to see James Gunn's shitposts as being abnormally awful.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:05
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Intel&Sebastian posted:James Gunn gets focused on because he personally made the jokes on his twitter. He's responsible. If he was on SA and someone two forums over made a kid rape joke, he wouldn't have been fired in the first place because he's not responsible for "the culture". James Gunn got focused on because he's an outspoken critic of Trump and the alt-right wanted a scalp after Roseanne got axed.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:14
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:James Gunn got focused on because he's an outspoken critic of Trump and the alt-right wanted a scalp after Roseanne got axed. To be honest this is kind of the elephant in the room when discussing this too. It's genuinely very hard to figure out how much discussion of Gunn's lovely jokes is genuine and how much of it is manufactured. This goes for both directions, I know plenty of people who are cheering him back because it is a Screw You to the alt-right crowd but probably would be less forgiving if it was Roseanne coming back on TV with a genuine apology. (I'm also not really counting Gunn and Roseanne's things in the same category but one was a response to the other so enjoy my lovely comparison.)
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Mar 16, 2019 00:18
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Oh well yeah, the whole campaign and how it was brought up was disingenuous as all out and faked outrage. We're mostly in agreement. otoh I wouldn't blame Disney for not hiring any of the people you mentioned for things they said in the past. It's extremely dumb to see those jokes, address them, hire the man AND THEN LATER get offended to the point of firing over it. But I wouldn't be half as shocked if they just didn't hire him in the first place over them. Doing things like that online risks future opportunities. Maybe not the opportunity to be a comedian, or make your own tv show, or write for the onion, or whatever.....but certainly doing stuff like that in public is risky if you plan to say, run for office, or get an outward facing job as a director at a notoriously "family friendly" outfit.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:19
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:James Gunn got focused on because he's an outspoken critic of Trump and the alt-right wanted a scalp after Roseanne got axed. This is true, but they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if he hadn't have made the jokes in the first place. edit: And like I said Disney is stupid as poo poo for making a decision when they first saw them and talked to him and going back on it. That's just cowardly and bad.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:21
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Oh well yeah, the whole campaign and how it was brought up was disingenuous as all out and faked outrage. We're mostly in agreement. Hm. I'm not sure. I think you'd genuinely have a hard time with that. I mean they've cast more significantly offensive people in roles. George Carlin was in Cars after all and I don't think anyone said anything about that despite the guy making jokes about Porky Pig getting raped. I also think it's a bad idea for any studio to treat being in something offensive or shocking as a reason not to hire them. I think it's within their rights but it's a thin line between being in an offensive comedy and making an offensive tweet at least to me. I absolutely agree with you that Disney's response is the absolute stupidest method though.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:26
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Especially when that studio is Disney, which is now much less "the place that makes the fun animated movies" and much more "a media conglomerate of Lovecraftian proportions."
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Mar 16, 2019 00:27
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Especially when that studio is Disney, which is now much less "the place that makes the fun animated movies" and much more "a media conglomerate of Lovecraftian proportions." Yeah, there's a lot of wrinkles to it. I'm just hoping no one mistakes the bad-faith campaign that got him bopped, or the idiotic way Disney handles who's ok and who's not ok for the idea that you can't be held responsible for your posts. You can and, increasingly so in the future we're careening into, you will. Just don't be posting poo poo you can't explain later. You've all made an extremely good decision to do all of your very bad and embarrassing posting on a dying vBulleting board cobbled together out of chickenwire and Lowtax's prayers, but just be careful out there.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:31
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That Mike Cernovich rapist guy is already having a tiny Nazi conniption fit over this. James Gunn getting rehired erases his greatest victory and it is glorious.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:37
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melbatoastXXX posted:That Mike Cernovich rapist guy is already having a tiny Nazi conniption fit over this. James Gunn getting rehired erases his greatest victory and it is glorious. lol and no ones gonna come to his rescue because the original movement wasn't real anyway Edit: Hell I'd bet at least half of the dork asses who helped him are GOTG fans anyway who are secretly happy they get to have their culture war moment cake and eat it too. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Mar 16, 2019 |
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Mar 16, 2019 00:42
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Yeah, there's a lot of wrinkles to it. The thing about being held responsible for ones actions is that there kind of has to be an entity that everyone agrees can judge people like that, and it sure as gently caress ain't Twitter or any other part of the hosed up online world.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:44
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Grendels Dad posted:The thing about being held responsible for ones actions is that there kind of has to be an entity that everyone agrees can judge people like that, and it sure as gently caress ain't Twitter or any other part of the hosed up online world. That's why I'm talking about employers or voters, who do get to definitively and unilaterally judge you if you're asking them for something.
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Mar 16, 2019 00:47
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The timing with the whole Gunn thing is so cynical. *far-right guy commits a mass murder* "Oh uh maybe we should distance ourselves from these far-right guys we caved in to earlier."
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Mar 16, 2019 01:03
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https://twitter.com/TaikaWaititi/status/1106695554791178240
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Mar 16, 2019 01:08
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Bedshaped posted:The timing with the whole Gunn thing is so cynical. yeah whatever disney is a cynical media conglomerate and all but i have a sneaking suspicion that they do not actually base their hiring decisions on how good they'll look when they announce them on the same day as a mass murder happens
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Mar 16, 2019 01:13
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Awfully convenient that not too long ago Marvel said they will start filming GOTG3 in 2021, and after that WB confirmed that Gunn will direct SS2 for a 2021 release.
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Mar 16, 2019 01:27
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Cease to Hope posted:he never had his own movie (and his two movies are not good but that's more Snydome territory) Not sure which of BvS, Justice League and Suicide Squad you're skipping out on here, but Batfleck is a delight in all three.
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Mar 16, 2019 01:48
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Cease to Hope posted:what lesson are you hoping people would have learned That Disney higher-ups should have deferred to Kevin Feige, since if they had they wouldn’t have wasted millions canceling a movie in pre-production for absolutely nothing. Also any way you slice it I think Disney were mega-cowards about this. They fired Gunn within 24 hours of Mike Cernovich digging up his tweets and calling him a pedophile, and refused to rehire him even after the media called it out as a politically-motivated hit job and the cast vouched for him and asked for him to be reinstated. Then later after WB hired Gunn and received virtually no backlash for it, then Disney wanted him back because he turned out to not be easy to replace. So at that point they rehired him, thus making it obvious that they never had any actual moral qualms about Gunn’s tweets and were only ever concerned about the potential bad press from them. Burkion posted:Also, Gunn, you loving idiot, just walk away. Let them firing you MEAN something. Don't hop back on the moment they offer you the exact same job that they took away from you FOR NOTHING. It's an unenviable position but one that you should have loving taken man. I think anyone representing Gunn would have told him to take the job back. He’s is trying to fight off a (at least at one time) widespread rumor that he is an actual loving pedophile. He was considered a disgraced director and I remember seeing a Washington Post article right after he was fired saying that his career as a mainstream filmmaker was completely over. Disney completely reversing course and rehiring him is basically an admission that they were wrong to fire him in the first place. And Gunn genuinely has reason to be grateful to the cast. They really stuck their necks out for him, especially Bautista, when they could have just as easily publicly said nothing and privately asked Disney to hurry up and hire a new director so they wouldn’t screw up their filming schedule.
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Mar 16, 2019 02:58
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Gunn was already hired to do another major blockbuster at WB. Ruined? Far from it.
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Mar 16, 2019 03:04
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Ebony Maw was better than like 90% of Marvel baddies on his own and probably should have survived. Oh, Icarus...
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Mar 16, 2019 03:20
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Ezra Miller is actually helping to write the Flash script himself, with a 'darker' direction, with extra help from noted Man of Steel fan Grant Morrison. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/flash-shocker-ezra-miller-writing-script-bid-star-1194937 The MSJ fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Mar 16, 2019 |
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Mar 16, 2019 04:52
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Burkion posted:Also, Gunn, you loving idiot, just walk away. Let them firing you MEAN something. Don't hop back on the moment they offer you the exact same job that they took away from you FOR NOTHING. It's an unenviable position but one that you should have loving taken man. Let it MEAN somethin man....*takes massive bong rip*
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Mar 16, 2019 05:10
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MacheteZombie posted:Gunn was already hired to do another major blockbuster at WB. Ruined? Far from it. Now that he's back with Marvel again they all have to have him direct both Shazam 2 and Captain Marvel 2.
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Mar 16, 2019 06:19
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The MSJ posted:Ezra Miller is actually helping to write the Flash script himself, with a 'darker' direction, with extra help from noted Man of Steel fan Grant Morrison. I hope Grant Morrison includes his occult stuff in the script
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Mar 16, 2019 07:06
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Parker and Stone do suck a lot though
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Mar 16, 2019 07:27
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The only ebony ma for me is Angela Basset Folks,
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Mar 16, 2019 09:59
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Fried Watermelon posted:I hope Grant Morrison includes his occult stuff in the script I hope Grant Morrison adapts that rad 90s story where The Flash raced Sonic the Hedgehog across time and space.
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Mar 16, 2019 10:29
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I hope the movie happens and becomes a success, thus opening WB to adapting Morrison's We3 script.
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Mar 16, 2019 10:43
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Fart City posted:It was there. I saw it. I don't get many opportunities like that. Had to go for it.
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Mar 16, 2019 13:19
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Necrothatcher posted:I hope Grant Morrison adapts that rad 90s story where The Flash raced Sonic the Hedgehog across time and space. Morrison gave us that story, the Black Flash (a grim reaper for speedsters who dresses like a color swapped Flash) and an evil possessed super suit that wraps itself around your body to possess you So basically any of those would be pretty great for a movie, is what I'm saying
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Mar 16, 2019 15:29
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Guy A. Person posted:Morrison gave us that story, the Black Flash (a grim reaper for speedsters who dresses like a color swapped Flash) and an evil possessed super suit that wraps itself around your body to possess you Isn't that basically Venom?
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Mar 16, 2019 15:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Isn't that basically Venom? OH yeah pretty true, as I described it For more info: the suit was made by the tailor who made all the Flash's rogues outfits, and when he died his spirit possessed this suit. Afterwards it flies around and puts itself on other people to control them and gain their powers
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Mar 16, 2019 15:36
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The Producer for Gunn's Skwad has confirmed is a complete reboot.quote:First of all, we don’t call it Suicide Squad 2 'cause it’s a total reboot, so it's The Suicide Squad and I think people should be extremely excited about it. It’s everything you would hope from a James Gunn script and I think that says a lot and that promises a lot and I know that we will deliver a lot. https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2468500/dont-call-it-suicide-squad-2-james-gunn-film-is-a-total-reboot-producer-says And there's some gossip that WW '84 isn't a sequel but I can't find anything concrete.
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Mar 17, 2019 02:47
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I'm not sure if I can trust that these people know what reboot means. It gets thrown around a lot these days. Jason Reitman's Ghostbusters and Shane Black's The Predator were both called reboots.
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Mar 17, 2019 02:49
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The MSJ posted:I'm not sure if I can trust that these people know what reboot means. It gets thrown around a lot these days. Jason Reitman's Ghostbusters and Shane Black's The Predator were both called reboots.  I'm just passing the info around. Also, more news about Sony's plans with Spiderman. quote:The Sony team is in the midst of figuring out how best to exploit its intellectual property across the film and television groups. And not just for its crown jewel, “Spider-Man,” but also in areas where it has a potential competitive advantage, such as its access to IP from PlayStation and Sony Music. https://variety.com/2019/tv/features/mike-hopkins-sony-pictures-television-strategy-1203160502/
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Mar 17, 2019 02:51
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