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Delany's published a lot of different stuff; he has consistent themes and interests, though. What are you looking for? I have the first Nevèrÿon book on my shelf, haven't read much of it though. I remember the bits about list theory confusing me.
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Mar 15, 2019 07:36
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mdemone posted:wat Super-duper detached "I see...,'s I watched....,'s I think...,'s I noticed...,'s, etc" hidden among the bulk of the 2nd person narrative that made up Leckie's Raven Tower. Best way I could think to describe that level of detachment is seventh-person narrative.
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Mar 15, 2019 14:00
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Dropped Gutter Prayer about halfway through. It's competent enough for fantasy but it feels there is absolutely nothing engaging about the story, characters or the world. Does it get significantly better in the second half?
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Mar 15, 2019 14:18
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:Super-duper detached "I see...,'s I watched....,'s I think...,'s I noticed...,'s, etc" hidden among the bulk of the 2nd person narrative that made up Leckie's Raven Tower. I mean, they weren't really hidden, largely because it wasn't really a second-person narrative but a first-person one which was largely focused on narrating the actions of the person being narrated to.
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Mar 15, 2019 14:42
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There was multiple narrative tenses going in Leckie's Raven Tower, I agree. Any more detailed discussion about the narrative tenses in Raven Tower I'd just blindly agree with to end the debate, because it's boring to talk about, spoiler-ific for people who haven't read Leckie's Raven Tower yet, and is 100% perfect fodder for that BotL Bonfire of the Genres thread once it gets unlocked. Next up on my reading list is some of the early CryptoLogs. Think Highlights magazine for adults: they are full of word puzzles (both intentional and un-intentional), easy to hard math puzzles, weird stories that kind of make sense and sound scifi-ish....only everything is security related, there is tons of redactions (that un-intentional word puzzle stuff I mentioned earlier) and.... it was all published by the NSA.....CryptoLogs are de-classified internal NSA newsletters from the mid-1970s to late 1990s .
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Mar 15, 2019 15:30
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be the change you want to be cuz we got a new genre fire thread now. would love to see someone do the Ancillary books with a critical eye.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:44
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my bony fealty posted:be the change you want to be cuz we got a new genre fire thread now. would love to see someone do the Ancillary books with a critical eye. This post led me to discover that BotL apparently mocked me for earnestly enjoying Ships of Merior So, hm. Anyways. While I am enjoying Cycle of Fire so far it's a weaker work. More cliches, slower pacing, I'm not surprised ToxicFrog bounced off of it. A young man with a destiny on a horse, yeppers here we go.
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Mar 15, 2019 16:56
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anilEhilated posted:Dropped Gutter Prayer about halfway through. It's competent enough for fantasy but it feels there is absolutely nothing engaging about the story, characters or the world. Does it get significantly better in the second half? I'm about 85% through and I quite like it, some "poo poo goes down" stuff is for sure happening in the last half of the book. I'm sure I'll finish it in a day or two for a full picture. However, I like the first half just fine so there is that.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:36
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I'm just finishing up a re-read of Three-Body Problem and it was much better the second time around. It felt extremely backloaded my first time, like all the revelation happened in the last few pages, but it's more like the last 15%, and knowing what's what ahead of time helped the pacing feel not so uneven. I can also better appreciate the Communist revolution/Trisolaran throughline. Wang's constant flitting here and there felt manic (and it kind of is) but at least this time it felt appropriate to the stakes. Are the sequels worth picking up?
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Mar 15, 2019 17:46
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I liked The Dark Forest pretty well but disliked Death's End. Neither are quite as good as TBP. Death's End is flabby and inconsistent. Just chunking a lot of Big Ideas together in an unsatisfying way. I don't think you'd miss much by skipping either of them, but if you liked TBP you'll definitely enjoy Dark Forest.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:55
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Worth reading if you liked the first one imo
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Mar 15, 2019 18:48
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So while not exactly books, Love Death + Robots was just released on Netflix. The episodes are based on short stories by Hamilton, Reynolds, Scalzi as well as other scifi authors. Sofar the episodes are pretty great, especially Sonnys edge by Hamilton. With respect to Hamilton, I have forgotten how good he can be in the right format.
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Mar 15, 2019 21:48
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my bony fealty posted:has anyone read Return to Neveryon? Delaney doing sword & sorcery sounds really cool I have the first book as well and have tried to start it a couple of times but keep bouncing off, I think I've just never been in the right mood. Dhalgren was kind of a tough read but rewarding to get through. The only other thing I've read is The Fall of the Towers which I understand isn't as highly regarded but might be more accessible? I read it the first time in high school and I got more out of it when I re-read it later but it was fairly straightforward in comparison.
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Mar 16, 2019 01:35
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The Fall of the Towers is really early work; Delany started pulpy and has gotten more literary over time, and constantly expressed his dissatisfaction with earlier stuff. In his autobiography he says he was dismayed with the trilogy almost before he'd finished it. The autobiography is an interesting and moving book, btw, and brings together a lot of his recurring themes, but I don't think it's a good place to start reading him.
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Mar 16, 2019 04:15
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I dunno if it's the normal price, but I was browsing for something new and noticed The Fifth Season was $3 on kindle so I grabbed it. I'm about 1/3rd through and I'm really digging it. It's got an absolutely fascinating world but it doesn't overshadow the novel's other elements (like say Yoon Ha Lee's books). I vaguely recall someone on here recommending and thanks whomever it was.
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Mar 16, 2019 07:56
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FuzzySlippers posted:I dunno if it's the normal price, but I was browsing for something new and noticed The Fifth Season was $3 on kindle so I grabbed it. I'm about 1/3rd through and I'm really digging it. It's got an absolutely fascinating world but it doesn't overshadow the novel's other elements (like say Yoon Ha Lee's books). I vaguely recall someone on here recommending and thanks whomever it was. Great series! Skip the sex scenes.
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Mar 16, 2019 13:18
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Lowness 72 posted:Great series! Skip the sex scenes.
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Mar 16, 2019 13:47
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could be my epithet
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Mar 16, 2019 16:16
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Just dropped Blood Price by Tanya Huff at like two hundred pages into it because my curiosity and patience were zeroed. You'd think I'd be into vampires and demons and this kind of mid 90s urban setting, but damnit! Tanya Huff can't write! Her stuff is profoundly competent and nothing more. There's no zing, no zest, nothing but the bare competence of characters doing things and saying things. ... I know that's like, a low bar but this is genre fiction, some works in it can't even get that far. The problem is that there's nothing else to this novel. It fails as a mystery: because we're given the villain's POV repeatedly, we know who dunnit. This isn't inherently a problem, except that the villain is actively repellent in all senses of the word, so there's no tension while reading his sections. No "who will be the next victim" or anything, just this college-age loser getting mad because he's being nice to girls, why aren't they hanging off his dick already? So the next tension should be "when will they connect the dots and catch him" except there's not much of that either. They figure out early on* that he's a college student, owns an AK-47 and a black leather jacket, but somehow not even letting the police know this means that no one can spot this creepy kid. Why? Because you can literally see the plot strings: no one can find or confront this kid until our heroes have developed more of a relationship, and that can't happen until the vampire gets attacked by people riled up by the press talking about the "Vampire Murders" in the city. It's contrived, and gets on my nerves. *This brings me back to another complaint: the pacing is slow. Glacially slow. Despite the murders starting on the second page, the active investigation doesn't get started until well over a hundred pages in, when Vicki officially gets hired to investigate this, and meets up with Henry, our vampire hero. Also despite being a vampire Henry reads like just another guy. He's incredibly, powerfully bland - even Vicki's ex-boyfriend cop Mike has more fire than this supposedly charming immortal vampire. Henry's the kind of guy who runs a used bookstore and wears sweaters and he's nice but naturally the author's trying to sell him as a mysterious rich romance novelist living in a penthouse suite, and no, nope. Even the historical flashbacks are weak, flimsy cardboard cutouts. I'm trying not to get too angry at this book, but damnit! I've been watching Millenium and feeling like really digging into some 90s urban occult/horror stuff and this was supposed to be it, and no. Boring. Tanya Huff how are you so bad at writing this kind of cool stuff?
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Mar 16, 2019 22:10
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StrixNebulosa posted:I'm trying not to get too angry at this book, but damnit! I've been watching Millenium and feeling like really digging into some 90s urban occult/horror stuff and this was supposed to be it, and no. Boring. Tanya Huff how are you so bad at writing this kind of cool stuff? I liked Millenium a lot, though it was really like 3 different shows, very different focus each season. Really enjoyed the second season.
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Mar 17, 2019 00:49
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pseudanonymous posted:I liked Millenium a lot, though it was really like 3 different shows, very different focus each season. Really enjoyed the second season. I'm about fifteen episodes into season one and it's easily the darkest crime show I have ever seen. Well done, but there are no good people in that world. It is great to watch if you need to remind yourself that your problems are trivial. My trig assignments are hard? At least I haven't been buried alive with my mouth sown shut!
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Mar 17, 2019 01:06
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StrixNebulosa posted:I'm about fifteen episodes into season one and it's easily the darkest crime show I have ever seen. Well done, but there are no good people in that world. Season 1 is very X-Files monster of the week, but darker. Season 2 is more like the mythology episodes of the X-Files. I don't really remember what season 3 was. Season 1 is Chris Carter, Season 2 is 2 other guys, then it switches back to Chris Carter for season 3. It's also explicitly in the X-files universe as there is a cross-over episode.
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Mar 17, 2019 01:17
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pseudanonymous posted:Season 1 is very X-Files monster of the week, but darker. Season 2 is more like the mythology episodes of the X-Files. I don't really remember what season 3 was. Season 1 is Chris Carter, Season 2 is 2 other guys, then it switches back to Chris Carter for season 3. It's also explicitly in the X-files universe as there is a cross-over episode. I've only seen a handful of X-Files episodes so this comparison means nothing to me, sorry.
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Mar 17, 2019 01:18
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Neat! Critical Failures 7 is out now!
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Mar 17, 2019 03:14
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Hey Hieronymous Alloy, to keep the good times rolling + the SomethingAwful server up longer, why don't you ban everyone who's posted in this thread 4 or more times, along with similar bans for posting 6 or more times in the BotL Bonfire of the Genres thread or it's successor thread. Make the BookBarn ban reason: Blood for the Lyrica God. Ban me first if this idea is cool.
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Mar 17, 2019 03:59
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There was a convo a while ago in the web serial megathread (If you haven't heard of The Practical Guide To Evil, check it out) about an author suggesting a specific subset of fantasy called progression fantasy. I have no idea if this is a new term or just a new way of slicing existing cheese, but it's the first I'd heard of it. That list and subreddit gave me a bunch of books to check out, which lead me to another term I had never heard of - Xianxia. There is precisely one hit on this word in this entire thread, I mean I know we're an echo chamber but one of the reasons people liked Liu Cixin so much is that it had a much different cultural feel than your typical tolkien-derived western fantasy. It seems pretty weird there's an entire subgenre that's almost not even mentioned, especially since this thread has pointed me at a lot of new stuff over the years - so much so that I mostly get my F/SF recommendations from here. So anyway, I'm a complete sucker for the hero's journey, a character's growth in personality and in their ability to affect the world, and story arcs with increasing scope. I absolutely devoured a series called Cradle over the past week, which is at it's heart a bunch of conventional tropes and wushu stories mashed up together and stirred up. Weak but determined boy from provincial town goes on adventures, grows stronger, overcomes local obstacles and gets noticed by larger and larger players which continue to throw him into escalating power struggles while introducing him to the wider world. This series absolutely leans into power escalation by pulling back the scope and moving him to a larger pond each time he grows in size. Obviously there's got to be an ending at some point but the main character seems to go up one tick on the in-series power scale per book and there are still plenty of ticks to go with hints of stuff beyond the known top. Xianxia in general does seem to be a pretty mature genre though it seems to be mostly in comic/manga/serial type formats. While I think it's very silly that every climax is some sort of anime duel and countries decide unreasonable amounts of public policy with tournaments, it's definitely something different in a good way. Now I need more. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 15:50
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Just finished Swordheart by Ursula Vernon. Didn't realize until I started reading it that it's technically the third Clocktaur book -- in that it's in the same world, and set after The Wonder Engine -- but it has no character overlap and a very different tone, so I think it'd also be enjoyable as a standalone. It does have a bit of the usual problem with romance subplots where I rapidly reach a point where I want to reach into the book and shake the protagonists while screaming JUST KISS ALREADY YOU IDIOTS, but I'll take that over the other usual problem where I'm screaming at them to  now, or preferably five chapters ago.I'm now halfway through The Raven Tower and enjoying it, but not as much as either Swordheart or Ann Leckie's earlier books. StrixNebulosa posted:This post led me to discover that BotL apparently mocked me for earnestly enjoying Ships of Merior BotL's entire gimmick was mocking people for earnestly enjoying things and then vanishing from the thread when challenged, so this should not be in any way surprising.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:07
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Bhodi posted:Xianxia
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Mar 17, 2019 16:26
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Bhodi posted:There was a convo a while ago in the web serial megathread (If you haven't heard of The Practical Guide To Evil, check it out) about an author suggesting a specific subset of fantasy called progression fantasy. I have no idea if this is a new term or just a new way of slicing existing cheese, but it's the first I'd heard of it. The litrpg thread is big on that kind of thing: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3844346
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Mar 17, 2019 16:29
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Bhodi posted:There was a convo a while ago in the web serial megathread (If you haven't heard of The Practical Guide To Evil, check it out) about an author suggesting a specific subset of fantasy called progression fantasy. I have no idea if this is a new term or just a new way of slicing existing cheese, but it's the first I'd heard of it. Progression Fantasy sounds like a fancy(polite) way to describe power-tripping/power creep fantasy, especially for award nomination/winning purposes. Literal example: Jordan's Wheel of Time or Butcher's Dresden Files, compare book 1 of each series versus any random later book in that same series. Was serious about the ban idea I mentioned. If people have posted 4 or mores in this thread and get banned for comical-way-to-support-the-forums, they're gonna re-register + come back after a ban. It would suck for the people caught up in multiple bans for multiple-megathread posting, but hey....remember all the hilarity + drama + fresh money for lowtax from the 100+ bans + reregistrations from the #BASTA Avenatti 2020 CSPAM thread.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:52
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:Hey Hieronymous Alloy, to keep the good times rolling + the SomethingAwful server up longer, why don't you ban everyone who's posted in this thread 4 or more times, along with similar bans for posting 6 or more times in the BotL Bonfire of the Genres thread or it's successor thread. Make the BookBarn ban reason: Blood for the Lyrica God. There's been enough ban drama in TBB already lately, and I don't want to exacerbate it unless it's absolutely necessary. Anyone who wants to donate to Lowtax's patreon is free to: https://www.patreon.com/GamingGarbage
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Mar 17, 2019 17:06
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So, there was a thing that i think i saw linked here months or years ago, a little piece of satire called something like 'if sci fi writers described a plane trip the same way they write their books'. It was an excellent What Not To Do, turning something familiar into an endless droning stream of statistics and irrelevant details and people explaining things to each other. I really want to show it to someone to make a point, but i can't find it for the life of me - does anyone remember this and have a link?
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Mar 17, 2019 19:05
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Ceebees posted:So, there was a thing that i think i saw linked here months or years ago, a little piece of satire called something like 'if sci fi writers described a plane trip the same way they write their books'. It was an excellent What Not To Do, turning something familiar into an endless droning stream of statistics and irrelevant details and people explaining things to each other. I really want to show it to someone to make a point, but i can't find it for the life of me - does anyone remember this and have a link? As quoted by BoTL: If all stories were written like science fiction stories by Mark Rosenfelder Roger and Ann needed to meet Sergey in San Francisco. “Should we take a train, or a steamship, or a plane?” asked Ann. “Trains are too slow, and the trip by steamship around South America would take months,” replied Roger. “We’ll take a plane.” He logged onto the central network using his personal computer, and waited while the system verified his identity. With a few keystrokes he entered an electronic ticketing system, and entered the codes for his point of departure and his destination. In moments the computer displayed a list of possible flights, and he picked the earliest one. Dollars were automatically deducted from his personal account to pay for the transaction. The planes left from the city airport, which they reached using the city bi-rail. Ann had changed into her travelling outfit, which consisted of a light shirt in polycarbon-derived artifical fabric, which showed off her pert figure, without genetic enhancements, and dark blue pants made of textiles. Her attractive brown hair was uncovered. At the airport Roger presented their identification cards to a representative of the airline company, who used her own computer system to check his identity and retrieve his itinerary. She entered a confirmation number, and gave him two passes which gave them access to the boarding area. They now underwent a security inspection, which was required for all airline flights. They handed their luggage to another representative; it would be transported in a separate, unpressurized chamber on the aircraft. “Do you think we’ll be flying on a propeller plane? Or one of the newer jets?” asked Ann. “I’m sure it will be a jet,” said Roger. “Propeller planes are almost entirely out of date, after all. On the other hand, rocket engines are still experimental. It’s said that when they’re in general use, trips like this will take an hour at most. This one will take up to four hours.” After a short wait, they were ushered onto the plane with the other passengers. The plane was an enormous steel cylinder at least a hundred meters long, with sleek backswept wings on which four jet engines were mounted. They glanced into the front cabin and saw the two pilots, consulting a bank of equipment needed the fly the plane. Roger was glad that he did not need to fly the plane himself; it was a difficult profession which required years of training. The surprisingly large passenger area was equipped with soft benches, and windows through which they could look down at the countryside as they flew 11 km high at more than 800 km/h. There were nozzles for the pressurized air which kept the atmosphere in the cabin warm and comfortable despite the coldness of the stratosphere. “I’m a little nervous,” Ann said, before the plane took off. “There’s nothing to worry about,” he assured her. “These flights are entirely routine. You’re safer than you are in our ground transport cars!” Despite his calm words, Roger had to admit to some nervousness as the pilot took off, and the land dropped away below them. He and the other passengers watched out the windows for a long time. With difficulty, he could make out houses and farms and moving vehicles far below. “There are more people going to San Francisco today than I would have expected,” he remarked. “Some of them may in fact be going elsewhere,” she answered. “As you know, it’s expensive to provide airplane links between all possible locations. We employ a hub system, and people from smaller cities travel first to the hub, and then to their final destination. Fortunately, you found us a flight that takes us straight to San Francisco.” When they arrived at the San Francisco airport, agents of the airline company helped them out of their seats and retrieved their luggage, checking the numeric tags to ensure that they were given to the right people. “I can hardly believe we’re already in another city,” said Ann. “Just four hours ago we were in Chicago.” “We’re not quite there!” corrected Roger. “We’re in the airport, which is some distance from the city, since it requires a good deal of space on the ground, and because of occasional accidents. From here we’ll take a smaller vehicle into the city.” They selected one of the hydrocarbon-powered ground transports from the queue which waited outside the airport. The fee was small enough that it was not paid electronically, but using portable dollar tokens. The driver conducted his car unit into the city; though he drove only at 100 km/hr, it felt much faster since they were only a meter from the concrete road surface. He looked over at Ann, concerned that the speed might alarm her; but she seemed to be enjoying the ride. A game girl, and intelligent as well! At last the driver stopped his car, and they had arrived. Electronic self-opening doors welcomed them to Sergey’s building. The entire trip had taken less than seven hours
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Mar 17, 2019 19:13
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I'm in a tetchy mood apparently - dropped Curse of Chalion by Bujold temporarily, as I do not have the emotional energy to read about a forced arranged marriage. The problem is that it's so well-written that I'm invested and furious about it, and I just - I don't want to be that angry right now. So back onto the shelf it goes until I'm in a better mood. The 150~ or so pages I read were great fantasy otherwise, I'm just... 
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Mar 17, 2019 19:30
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anilEhilated posted:Not gonna lie, this sounds awfully like litRPG. Which would explain the lack of being mentioned. Xianxia's DNA is much older than litRPGs, even if the modern stuff does cross-pollinate with them quite a bit. It's heavily rooted in Taoist mysticism - qigong, Chinese alchemy, et cetera, with the gradual cultivation of the soul over multiple lifetimes accelerated into a mad, breakneck race for supreme power. Most of the genre dates from the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, but Journey to the West can easily be considered a proto-xianxia, even if it was pro-Buddhist and anti-Taoist - it's got a very similar episodic format and focus on guile, trickery, and the ludicrously powerful protagonists becoming ever more ludicrously powerful. Most xianxia is poo poo and can only be read through appallingly bad fan-translations, but Cradle is a genuinely fun fantasy adventure - the writing is competent, the genre's general sense of amorality is kept within tolerable levels, the spectacle is entertainingly ridiculous, and the author knows how to keep his work short, tense, and snappy rather than making it a bloated power-fantasy. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 19:31
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Another good one is David Weber orders a pizza
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Mar 17, 2019 19:33
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:As quoted by BoTL: I guess all the hubbub had just reminded me of people saying not to like things. Thanks!
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Mar 17, 2019 20:07
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General Battuta posted:Another good one is David Weber orders a pizza
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Mar 17, 2019 20:08
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:Progression Fantasy sounds like a fancy(polite) way to describe power-tripping/power creep fantasy, especially for award nomination/winning purposes. quote:Literal example: Jordan's Wheel of Time or Butcher's Dresden Files, compare book 1 of each series versus any random later book in that same series. The label is not just about the protagonist becoming more powerful, but on how much focus in the book is on the protagonist becoming more powerful, training, gaining more powerful equipment, etc.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:35
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ToxicFrog posted:BotL's entire gimmick was mocking people for earnestly enjoying things and then vanishing from the thread when challenged, so this should not be in any way surprising. The only useful posts I can remember BotL making were the overly detailed chapter-by-chapter takedowns of Name of the Wind and Patrick Rothfuss's terrible writing in general.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:56
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