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Blistex posted:First time I saw Aliens special edition with the sentry gun scene, I instantly felt a lot of the tension disappear. They had just killed a shitload of aliens, and right or not, I thought, "things are going to be easier for them now that they have only a few aliens left to deal with". It's a cool scene, but if you're watching for the first time I can see it being a bit of a tension deflater. Maybe Cameron picked up on that with test audiences? Or maybe I'm an outlier with my opinion. I assume the maximum warrior count would be 100 or so for the colony assume every colonist got grabbed for face rape?
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Mar 17, 2019 16:54
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etalian posted:I assume the maximum warrior count would be 100 or so for the colony assume every colonist got grabbed for face rape?  Probably a little less than 150, given that the colonists killed at least a couple.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:31
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Assuming, of course, that the colonists aren't reusable. Aliens implies they might be, given that there's someone still alive who really does not want to be.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:48
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Did Cameron ever comment on the marketing campaign spoiling the whole "Arnie's the good guy" reveal of T2? Right up until the hallway scene in the mall, we're pretty much led to believe that the T1000 is the good guy. (did we even know he's not human before that point?)
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Mar 17, 2019 17:48
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Blistex posted:First time I saw Aliens special edition with the sentry gun scene, I instantly felt a lot of the tension disappear. They had just killed a shitload of aliens, and right or not, I thought, "things are going to be easier for them now that they have only a few aliens left to deal with". It's a cool scene, but if you're watching for the first time I can see it being a bit of a tension deflater. Maybe Cameron picked up on that with test audiences? Or maybe I'm an outlier with my opinion.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:04
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Beet Wagon posted:
I wonder if a movie nerd did the math on how many aliens got killed in combat. I imagine they were at least 100 or so warriors left giving the alien team a pretty good K/D ratio.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:12
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The best Alien/Aliens movie knockoff was Galaxy of Terror. Also ironically enough it was also a training camp for James Cameron for getting experience in film production and practical effects.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:15
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Splicer posted:For me it showed how utterly screwed they were because they never stopped coming. They killed so many aliens and there were still so many aliens. In Alien the alien was effectively unkillable because they lacked the resources to do so. In Aliens they can kill an alien, or even a bunch of aliens, but the hive as a whole was unkillable because loving hell look at all those aliens. That was text in the scene itself, they knew there was no way they'd be able to take on all the aliens they were just hoping to convince the aliens they could take on all the aliens. A pretty good example of how different people take different things away from a scene. I can totally see your side, and how it was shot to emphasize it, but to me it sort of made the Aliens feel more mortal, and less of a threat.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:35
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Blistex posted:A pretty good example of how different people take different things away from a scene. I can totally see your side, and how it was shot to emphasize it, but to me it sort of made the Aliens feel more mortal, and less of a threat. I loved the guns but to be honest they made the aliens look less cunning and more like the kind of mindless drones that would pile down a hallway to be mass slaughtered. Which maybe was the point (perhaps to tie in with the Queen/eggs/hive idea of an insect-like horde) but it made them less scary for me as well.
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Mar 17, 2019 19:07
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Different kind of fear. The first film is essentially a slasher movie, with an unstoppable killer ready to strike from the shadows at any time. The second is more like a zombie film, where the threat from an individual creature is manageable, the problem is there's no way to kill them all. Personally, I like films like Aliens and Predator 2 that do something a bit different rather than just do the first film again. e: Also, I think it's pretty terrifying to realise that the individuals will just essentially throw themselves into a meat grinder until they foul the mechanism with their own bodyparts. In a sense, you're not fighting a group of aliens, you're fighting one giant creature that doesn't mind getting a few minor injuries to achieve its goal. Sunswipe fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 19:59
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Tochiazuma posted:I loved the guns but to be honest they made the aliens look less cunning and more like the kind of mindless drones that would pile down a hallway to be mass slaughtered. Which maybe was the point (perhaps to tie in with the Queen/eggs/hive idea of an insect-like horde) but it made them less scary for me as well. It's more like it makes them look more cunning, sentry gun scene was just them testing the defenses and after taking losses they found a way in open/below OPs.
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Mar 17, 2019 20:02
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Sunswipe posted:Different kind of fear. The first film is essentially a slasher movie, with an unstoppable killer ready to strike from the shadows at any time. The second is more like a zombie film, where the threat from an individual creature is manageable, the problem is there's no way to kill them all. Personally, I like films like Aliens and Predator 2 that do something a bit different rather than just do the first film again. Alien is a suspense horror movie. Aliens is an action movie
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Mar 17, 2019 20:03
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Mumpy Puffinz posted:Alien is a suspense horror movie. Aliens is an action movie I'd say Aliens is an action horror movie, but that's about right.
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Mar 17, 2019 20:07
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Sunswipe posted:I'd say Aliens is an action horror movie, but that's about right. that's fair. maybe an action monster movie
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Mar 17, 2019 20:11
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Facehuggers cum in your mouth lol
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Mar 17, 2019 20:19
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happyhippy posted:Facehuggers cum in your mouth lol they cum down your throat, into your stomach
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Mar 17, 2019 20:20
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happyhippy posted:Facehuggers cum in your mouth lol "LOL, I wonder if anyone has made a funny meme about this? I'll just type that into GIS and . . . . " 
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Mar 17, 2019 20:22
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happyhippy posted:Facehuggers cum in your mouth lol 
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Mar 17, 2019 20:34
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Mumpy Puffinz posted:they cum down your throat, into your stomach
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Mar 17, 2019 20:35
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Notes, queries and corrections: • I thought the jaw hinges of the OG Alien were made of condoms, not the lips? • Michael Biehn got paid because he happened to find the A3 crew using a dummy of his body they’d made without permission initially. After they’d paid for the rights they used the photo. • Bill Paxton is also super in True Lies. • These are a series of essays on typesetting in Alien and Blade Runner. If you haven’t ever read them, do so, as they’re amazing. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/typesetinthefuture.com/2014/12/01/alien/amp/
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Mar 17, 2019 22:21
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Torquemada posted:• Michael Biehn got paid because he happened to find the A3 crew using a dummy of his body they’d made without permission initially. After they’d paid for the rights they used the photo. Good on him.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:47
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etalian posted:I wonder if a movie nerd did the math on how many aliens got killed in combat. Having said that, the newer "expanded universe" stuff from the past couple years through our calculations out the window - it turns out a lot (A LOT) of colonists actually escaped from Hadley's Hope via a cargo lifter and made it to the nearby moon LV-223 (aka, the planet from 'Prometheus' - that and LV-426 are both moons of the same gas supergiant). Those colonists still had a real lovely day, but it's still like 30-50 colonists that weren't present at Hadley's Hope to turn into Aliens.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:18
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Blistex posted:First time I saw Aliens special edition with the sentry gun scene, I instantly felt a lot of the tension disappear. They had just killed a shitload of aliens, and right or not, I thought, "things are going to be easier for them now that they have only a few aliens left to deal with". It's a cool scene, but if you're watching for the first time I can see it being a bit of a tension deflater. Maybe Cameron picked up on that with test audiences? Or maybe I'm an outlier with my opinion. I actually thought the sentry gun scene was good because it established the Xenos had some level of problem solving intelligence because they gave up trying to get in via that entrance. Showing that they aren't just mindless killing machines makes the horror and suspense that bit worse. It also contextualises the "how could they cut the power man, they're animals" line. That said, I can see how that line also has resonance if it's left up to the imagination of the audience whether they might have actually cut the power.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:29
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Xenomrph posted:I participated in this exact discussion like 15 years ago and for the life of me I can't remember what number we mathed out. Whats fun about this is that if Gorman wasn't such a gently caress up the Marines would have had a real chance against the xenos.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:31
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Glenn Quebec posted:Whats fun about this is that if Gorman wasn't such a gently caress up the Marines would have had a real chance against the xenos. Okay hotshot, put your money where you mouth is.  Here's an adaptation of the old 'Aliens' tabletop game, where you get to play out the hatchery ambush where Gorman fucks up and gets everyone killed. Only this time, you know what's coming. https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/408816 Good luck!
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Mar 18, 2019 01:42
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Xenomrph posted:Okay hotshot, put your money where you mouth is. HOLY gently caress! Newgrounds still exists?
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Mar 18, 2019 01:51
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Xenomrph posted:Okay hotshot, put your money where you mouth is. Holy poo poo! Newgrounds is still a thing?
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Mar 18, 2019 01:52
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Xenomrph posted:Okay hotshot, put your money where you mouth is. Lol when I get to my computer I'll do this and post results
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Mar 18, 2019 02:04
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Blistex posted:Holy poo poo! Newgrounds is still a thing? 
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Mar 18, 2019 02:07
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:The thing remake has some bad and obvious cgi, but also there is some I didn't notice at all (the autopsy scene, the thing internals are largely cgi). Fun fact! The Thing remake actually had practical effects and animatronics made. They look amazing in these demo reels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBzpT7VmSaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R8ASn25GLg Not so fun fact. They were never used. Supposedly the director just preferred CG. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyOu3j7CtoE This thread convinced me rewatch the special cut of Alien 3. I forgot they shot Tywin Lannister into space.
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Mar 18, 2019 03:56
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I guess I never thought about it before, but after the first sentry gun scene the aliens have already taken enough losses that even if they xenomorphed all the surviving characters at that point, the alien force would still come out a net loss. Then the aliens attack the second hallway and take even more losses. I think it hurts the narrative that the aliens are pretty smart, to have them risk so many of their numbers for so few potential victims. Of course, they do get in anyway, and take Hudson and Burke. Maybe the queen realized Hudson was so dangerous, and thus valuable, that she risked half her children to get him. Is there any EU bullshit where a Hudson xenomorph gets off the planetoid? Now let's debate how the queen made it back to the Sulaco.
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Mar 18, 2019 08:32
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And Gorman was for sure a dogshit CO, and he wasn't able to help his Marines when the mission went bad, but it wasn't his fault that the aliens picked the most fragile part of the colony to make their hive. Ripley saved all their asses by pointing out that the Marines' weapons could destroy the cooling system, and the corporate interest decided that the Marines' lives weren't worth risking the facility. Plus it was still a rescue mission at that point, they couldn't just nerve gas the whole area. What was Gorman supposed to do differently besides call off the rescue mission? The whole operation was doomed from the start, and only Ripley knew it; and Burke was gaming everybody all along so that nobody listened to Ripley too closely. Gorman sucks, but not because he took the Marines' magazines. Now, after all the magazines were collected, plus whatever battery or link was removed from the smart-guns, just what did Apone think that Vasquez and Drake were doing waving their cannons around in the hive? They're both super obvious that they are ready to shoot something.
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Mar 18, 2019 08:59
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Copper Vein posted:What was Gorman supposed to do differently besides call off the rescue mission?
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Mar 18, 2019 10:12
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Splicer posted:Tell them why. He told them to ditch their bullets, but not why they needed to ditch their bullets. That resulted in a worst of both worlds situation where they couldn't defend themselves but were still making on-the-spot decisions that could, and did, nuke the whole facility. Leaving their weapons intact but telling them that shots or explosions could blow the whole facility would have been a better call. Not being military minded is freezing up in a battle the way he did enough to condemn someone? As shown they lost Apone immediately, and Hicks said "Marines we are leaving" so he took charge of things anyway. It wasn't like Gorman left them in there for an extended period of time, and he was just as unprepared for the threat and the severity of it as anyone on the ground.
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Mar 18, 2019 11:00
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Copper Vein posted:I guess I never thought about it before, but after the first sentry gun scene the aliens have already taken enough losses that even if they xenomorphed all the surviving characters at that point, the alien force would still come out a net loss. Then the aliens attack the second hallway and take even more losses.
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Mar 18, 2019 11:32
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I get the point, but I don't think I agree with it. The narrative had always been that these were clever and the perfect killing machine. That gets undermined if they take the Russian Army method of attack against the sentry guns. You've swapped the fear from being hunted by the Terminator to a single scene where you are facing a zombie invasion: both are equally frightening, but what you are frightened of is very different. It's a cool scene, but I think dropping it for the theatrical was the right move: ideally you would buy a 2 disc set: the first with theatrical and the second with theatrical with only this single scene added.
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Mar 18, 2019 11:55
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As far as the characters in the movie are concerned there are effectively infinite aliens and the movie does everything to convince the viewers of this too. How many people in 1986 do you think even noticed the population on that sign? Coming at the movie in 2019 when you can analyze every frame and pore over extended-universe tie-ins to try and math out exactly how many xenos are in the movie might be a neat thought experiment but like, you can read this last page of posts and literally watch this line of thought sucking the joy and tension out of this magnificent movie.
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Mar 18, 2019 11:56
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Shut up Meg posted:I get the point, but I don't think I agree with it. Wouldnt it have been a bit strange if they recognized automated guns and their function at first glance? They attacked, got shredded, retreated, adapted to the situation and took a different approach. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Mar 18, 2019 12:24
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^^ You're right, but on reflection I think it gives the marines more power/control in the movie than I think is intended. If memory serves that scene went on for long enough for the viewer to be given the impression that there were probably a good 30-50 or so Xenos taken out by the guns.Shut up Meg posted:I get the point, but I don't think I agree with it. Durzel fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Mar 18, 2019 |
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Mar 18, 2019 12:27
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The Owlbear Camus cut would ditch the early Hadleys hope scenes and the extended scene where they hypothesize about the queen and keep the sentry guns and Amanda Ripley scenes. Bless.
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Mar 18, 2019 12:43
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