bird cooch posted:Think about the initial invasion of Iraq and how much of a shitshow that was. And the military had been preparing for these kind of movements and deployments for most of its existence. Now imagine the people doing the suffering due to mistakes, incompetence, and scaling shortages are regular civilians who get the bitch complain publicly instead of the enlisted you just get the bitch and complain to each other. And then you've got 50% plus or minus of the population who doesn't want this in the first place and they are directly affected by it instead of it being some nebulous war on some country that they can't find on a map on the other side of the world that they've been being sold on for a year. Are you talking about the current healthcare system or implementation of a future one because I cant tell from this. Also: quote:So it is not surprising that some would have us stay where we are a little longer to rest, to wait. But this city of Houston, this State of Texas, this country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them. This country was conquered by those who moved forward- quote:We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win It's almost like someone wanted to act like the greatest nation in the world instead of just talk about it.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:28
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bird cooch posted:All of our eggs in one basket is not only bad planning, it's bad policy. Absolutely, and it should have been fixed decades ago. It wasn't. Now the choices available are attempt to start fixing big poo poo, right the hell now or watch everything circle the drain. There isn't any middle ground left on this stuff anymore, so might as well try.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:29
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I'm talking about recent historical examples and the lessons we can learn. Wishful thinking and desire has its place, but the sausage has to be made.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:30
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bird food bathtub posted:Absolutely, and it should have been fixed decades ago. It wasn't. Now the choices available are attempt to start fixing big poo poo, right the hell now or watch everything circle the drain. There isn't any middle ground left on this stuff anymore, so might as well try. Hyperbole doesn't help.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:31
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bird cooch posted:Hyperbole doesn't help. What the gently caress is hyperbole about potential extinction level events across the planet? Edit: or people watching family die to easily treatable illness and being rewarded with their life savings vanishing in a puff of hospital bills? bird food bathtub fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 23:35
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bird cooch posted:I'm talking about recent historical examples and the lessons we can learn. Wishful thinking and desire has its place, but the sausage has to be made. If only a multitude of other nations with less robust economies could somehow serve as a guidepost for the USA to undertake this massive, unprecedented, incredibly near impossible achievement that no one else has accomplished.* * except these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_healthcare
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Mar 17, 2019 23:36
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bird food bathtub posted:What the gently caress is hyperbole about potential extinction level events across the planet? Have we "whatabout'ed" to climate change all the sudden? That Works posted:If only a multitude of other nations with less robust economies could somehow serve as a guidepost for the USA to undertake this massive, unprecedented, incredibly near impossible achievement that no one else has accomplished.* Nobody is saying that universal health Care isn't achievable. Also we have very large differences in scale and systems of governance. We have to win in the system we have in order to change the system. You seem to be skipping large parts of what I'm writing in order to try and score some invisible internet points. I am just pointing out some realities in difficulty in implementation and hurdles that will have to be crossed. If there was guaranteed one party control we could pretend that these problems won't arise. But the voting population couldn't even pay attention for two whole years before the Obama administration lost the legislative branches on a much more modest proposal. You don't have to convince the people that are already sold, you have to convince the people that don't want it in the first place. bird cooch fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 23:37
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This is centrist_rally.txt poo poo I guess.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:39
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That Works posted:This is centrist_rally.txt poo poo I guess. No, this is understanding basic governance and how the legislative body works .txt or 8th grade social studies .Txt if you really want to be a dick about it
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Mar 17, 2019 23:41
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Guys guys, think about all the insurance company ceos and stock holders. Gotta wring that rock dry before we help people.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:43
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Oxygenpoisoning posted:Guys guys, think about all the insurance company ceos and stock holders. Gotta wring that rock dry before we help people. Or if you want a reality-based shitpost you could say, guys guys think about the 20% of the American economy that this would directly affect and how complex it would be.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:44
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https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1107314663023353864?s=20
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Mar 17, 2019 23:52
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Lol holy poo poo. Also pretty rich coming from them.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:54
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bird food bathtub posted:What the gently caress is hyperbole about potential extinction level events across the planet? Missed your edit (or did I?) I'm an occasionally wheelchair bound cripple who is dependent on the mess of a VA for care. The few years I managed to keep working after diagnosis my medical bills ran in excess of 500k a year. Thankfully I had insurance at that time but it only helped so much in the 4 years it took me to get approved. I don't have a magic wand and discussing the details of implementation is something that has to be done. The only way some of these candidates have got so far is by not discussing the details of implementation at all. saying everyone should have healthcare is easy, making it happen is difficult. How is this hard to understand?
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Mar 17, 2019 23:54
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*looks at any other industrialized nation in the world* Yeah, nope, I can't figure out how something conveniently labeled Medicare For All would work either. Real head scratcher there.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:03
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bird cooch posted:saying everyone should have healthcare is easy, making it happen is difficult. How is this hard to understand? No one is saying it would be easy. Quoting Kennedy saying 'we choose to do this because it is hard' wasn't just for theatrics. That said, it would be way loving easier than going to the moon as others already mentioned, that we have dozens of examples to follow to get it done.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:04
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Read ten posts up. It was literally a response to you. You are quoted and everything.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:05
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Handsome Ralph posted:Lol holy poo poo. One DUI can be a mistake, and that's all Beto has. More than one means you're driving drunk a lot, and just happening go get caught once in a while.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:07
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Beto lost to Raphael Cruz. He is a non-person in politics.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:09
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bird cooch posted:Read ten posts up. Achievable does not imply a degree of difficulty or lack thereof. We get it, you don't want to rock the boat and try to implement change for the better even if it does not always succeed. https://twitter.com/internethippo/status/881161169469403137?lang=en
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Mar 18, 2019 00:10
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That Works posted:Achievable does not imply a degree of difficulty or lack thereof. So you didn't read it. Or anyting. You're just inventing positions to argue against. That must be easy.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:12
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It's hard to take you seriously when you argued that drastic change loses you power when you fail to achieve it, then advocate for the incremental change that Obama implemented without even considering shooting for the moon... and proceeded to lose both houses of Congress.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:20
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imo, problems should not be solved, until we can find a way to profit
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Mar 18, 2019 00:21
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sorry guys i just cant see the benefits to my personal life of people not dying unnecessarily, dragging their families into ruin in the process hit me up when you have a superpac tho
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Mar 18, 2019 00:22
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bird cooch posted:So you didn't read it. Or anyting. You're just inventing positions to argue against. That must be easy. Lol nah. You don't want to implement or attempt change because of its inherent difficulty, which I and others are arguing, isn't exactly that difficult. This is pretty far of a derail at this point, and I think you're only really looking for agreement, so I'll just drop it.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:24
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Zeroisanumber posted:This dude im choosing to believe this guy did the entire thing waddling because his balls are too large to allow him to walk in a more dignified manner
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Mar 18, 2019 00:27
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ZombieApostate posted:It's hard to take you seriously when you argued that drastic change loses you power when you fail to achieve it, then advocate for the incremental change that Obama implemented without even considering shooting for the moon... and proceeded to lose both houses of Congress. I didn't argue shitt. I simply stated what has happened. I am asking how do we overcome these issues. What's hard to take seriously? The idea that the country is polarized? The idea that implementing major changes are very complicated and take a lot of time? Or is it harder to take seriously the idea that the Joe lieberman's, Paul Ryan's and Mitch McConnell's of the world will suddenly cease to exist? the idea that the entire country is going to do a magical heel turn in the shadow of just electing Donald Trump? I know it's confusing, the idea that there's this whole American electorate. But it's a reality. The question of how do you overcome these problems instead of attacking the idea that I brought up these obvious issues that are going to come into the implementation of any major reform. Or the fact that few people are bothering to read before replying. I know it's hard everything is all shitposting these days. But give it a shot. That Works posted:Lol nah. That's the exact opposite of what I said, but it makes your argument sound better so hopefully everybody else in your world is a strawman as well.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:28
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i too think theres a great deal of wisdom to leaving open the door to doing nothing of consequence due to fear of it not working out perfectly its v important that our country not do things rashly, unless those things are invading and destroying other countries for short-term profit
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Mar 18, 2019 00:32
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Yeah we should totally acquiesce to the Mitch McConnells and Joe Libermans of the world. That couldn’t possibly get us Romney care 2.0 and 8 years of repeal and replace. It’s all or nothing because that’s the game the GOP is playing. Either you play to win or more people die due to lack of health care.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:38
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It is important to remember that this country was founded on the spirit of not doing anything audacious, or if deemed extremely difficult, or if it may result in some amount of negative response, or is a rapid and abrupt shift to the established system
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Mar 18, 2019 00:41
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So how do you do it? How do you get around all of these problems? I have just stated the historical tripping hazards that have stopped large government programs in the very recent past. Stating over and over what you want doesn't get you any closer to implementation without a plan. What's the plan? what's your answer? Cause both "sides" of this discussion want universal health Care. Cause y'all are kick'in the poo poo out of that strawman. bird cooch fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Mar 18, 2019 |
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Mar 18, 2019 00:44
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Kennedy had to tell NASA how to build the Saturn V.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:45
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Nothing to see here, just the POTUS retweeting a white nationalist, QAnon nutjob two days after a massive Islamophobic terrorist attack: https://twitter.com/ColMorrisDavis/status/1107402367581020164
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Mar 18, 2019 00:46
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That Works posted:Kennedy had to tell NASA how to build the Saturn V. This isn't the gravityless, frictionless space of physics 101.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:49
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bird cooch posted:Cause both "sides" of this discussion want universal health Care. i doubt this heavily
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Mar 18, 2019 00:49
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most people who systematically denigrate the idea that healthcare justice is possible either simply dont care or have something to gain (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 18, 2019 00:50
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terrain terrain
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Mar 18, 2019 00:50
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make mockery posted:i doubt this heavily It would be really easy to find out if you just bothered to read the last page of this thread before the Twitter sniping started. Writing incomplete thoughts instead of hot takes is difficult and it takes lots of practice but if you really try you can do it too. Edit: later y'all. This started out interesting before the jackals showed up. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 18, 2019 00:51
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bird cooch posted:It would be really easy to find out if you just bothered to read the last page of this thread before the Twitter sniping started. You’re not arguing in good faith. Multiple people pointed out we aren’t first country to crack this egg, so we could look at numerous other implementations in order to give healthcare to our citizens. We’ve literally had every Democrat president since Carter try to implement heath care for all only to be constantly rebuffed. Clearly 40 years of bashing our collective heads against the wall doesn’t work because people still die from lack of health care.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:59
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Oxygenpoisoning posted:Yeah we should totally acquiesce to the Mitch McConnells and Joe Libermans of the world. That couldn’t possibly get us Romney care 2.0 and 8 years of repeal and replace. I think his point is that the only way to get the "all" is if you control 60 seats in the Senate, which is unlikely in 2020.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:00
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