UKMT March 2019 - we live in a hell world of piss and shit.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT March 2019 - we live in a hell world of piss and shit.

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Breath Ray: Nov 19, 2010

Hentai Jihadist posted:

reading into marx; Dialectical Materialism just seems to be woowoo for "events are caused by physical things, also things change constantly," but gussied up so if you google it instead of a short definition you get thousands of words and six different dead people giving you coy and indirect treatises on it.
its weird that marxism has a sort of spiritualism/religion attached to it but I suppose at the time it would have been opposing the christian just world stuff

also who in the marxist/anarchist tradition is enjoyable to read?
lenin seemed ok, i actually liked trotskys thing better but all I've read of them is their vague descriptions of dialectical materialism.

Hows bakunin and kropotkin? the only anarchist stuff I've read is Emma Goldman but I do think anarchism in theory is the obviously morally superior ideology
-insert that meme of marx falling down the stairs while bakunin yells at him-

i enjoyed chomsky on aanarchism. read it on a bus from dubrovnik to mostar a couple of yearss ago and its in conversational interview format

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:05

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 05:04

Hobo: Dec 12, 2007; Forum bum

Tesseraction posted:

I mean from what I've heard of the situation he was like "okay time to play hardball with these fu-- Tsipras what are you doing in here and why are you holding that chlorofo--" and woke up nude outside brussels

That�s basically the impression I got from reading his book �Adults in the Room�, which is definitely worth reading.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:07

Sex Robot: Jan 11, 2011; Nothing amazing happens here.
Everything is ordinary.

Oh dear me posted:

From googling I gather that is a church thing? I'm afraid that's a no go, but thank you.

TCC = The Crackhead Clubhouse

e;fb

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:08

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Hobo posted:

That�s basically the impression I got from reading his book �Adults in the Room�, which is definitely worth reading.

I can understand Tsipras's reticence to go HAM but I do wonder how things would have been if the return to the drachma had happened.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:10

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Hentai Jihadist posted:

also who in the marxist/anarchist tradition is enjoyable to read?
lenin seemed ok, i actually liked trotskys thing better but all I've read of them is their vague descriptions of dialectical materialism.

Hows bakunin and kropotkin? the only anarchist stuff I've read is Emma Goldman but I do think anarchism in theory is the obviously morally superior ideology
-insert that meme of marx falling down the stairs while bakunin yells at him-

I enjoyed reading Bakunin's God and the State and Kropotkin's Conquest of Bread, Mutual Aid is good too but more a pop science work for anarchism.

Bookchin writes some good stuff if you want someone other than 19th century beardmen.

Borrovan posted:

Pretty sure this is not true and is an American thing (Guava does tend to be right about stuff though so idk). Drug addiction is specifically excluded from the Equality Act, at least.

It is for driving. Any medical condition likely to affect driving is classed as a disability, which means that you have to report it to the DVLA and pass supporting evidence from your doctor that you're still safe to drive.

'Disability' as defined by the DVLA may or may not be 'disability' as defined by the Equality Act.

e:

quote:

The Road Traffic Act requires licence holders or applicants to tell the DVLA of �any disability likely to affect safe driving.� They consider drug use to be a �disability� in this context.

Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Mar 18, 2019

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:15

Azza Bamboo: Apr 7, 2018; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

Where's a good starting point for understanding Marxist theory for someone who'd rather see plain English than dense philosopher words?

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:17

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Zizek, you can get dense psychoanalytics words and pop culture references and so on and so on instead :v:

The Morning Star used to have a regular "explain a Marxist concept" column, although I don't know if that's been replaced by screaming TERFs now or something.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:20

brian: Sep 11, 2001; I obtained this title through beard tax.

Tesseraction posted:

I can understand Tsipras's reticence to go HAM but I do wonder how things would have been if the return to the drachma had happened.

maybe more badly than now, maybe less, but either way the EU was going to cripple greece to prevent others doing the same, greece is hella hosed for a long time because as soon as the eurozone truly collapses (which is incredibly likely due to how it currently works and where its headed) it's going to have to do it anyway, although I imagine there won't be any capitalist punitive action if the entirety of europe is on fire so that's a plus point

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:20

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Azza Bamboo posted:

Where's a good starting point for understanding Marxist theory for someone who'd rather see plain English than dense philosopher words?

The communist manifesto is genuinely a good start, it's old fashioned in the language, sure, but it's basically constant ranting about how loving poo poo capitalists are and how workers are actually the source of all power and production in the world. It's not really philosophical.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:21

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

thanks ill check that stuff out.

anyone know of any more recent stuff thats actually ... readable? or interesting?
I started reading Mike Davis' recent book called Old Gods New Doctrines or possible the opposite of that and thought it was enjoyable for the prologue where he talks about his life and gives an overview of the challenge of modern marxists in defining a modern revolutionary class but then it nosedives into nitty gritty definitions for chapters at a time with very academic and dry prose

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:21

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Anything by Mark Blyth

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:23

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Tesseraction posted:

Anything by Mark Blyth

his stuff is good but best absorbed via lecture imo

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:25

Hobo: Dec 12, 2007; Forum bum

Tesseraction posted:

I can understand Tsipras's reticence to go HAM but I do wonder how things would have been if the return to the drachma had happened.

The book goes into this, and apparently the agreed order of preference was debt forgiveness, Grexit, and then whatever the current situation is, on the grounds that while crashing out of the Euro would have been bad, it would have at least allowed Greece to rebuilt, instead of being stuck in a permanent debtor�s prison for decades.

As you say, Tsipras did not stick with that in the end, so here we are.

Hobo fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Mar 18, 2019

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:29

jabby: Oct 27, 2010

Oh dear me posted:

That's a little bit hopeful, thank you, although I suspect they would take the licence. I'll drag my friend to a CAB - we were afraid they had a legal duty to grass, too.

Your friend is the one with a legal duty to report, not his doctor. Having said that if his doctor thinks he is still driving and presents a risk to the public they can call they DVLA themselves.

Points to keep in mind:

A) If your friend is on a stable dose of methadone, not taking any other drugs and is otherwise well he could potentially get his licence back.

B) Driving while abusing methadone is nearly as bad as drink-driving and risks the lives of everyone else on the road. Trust me, it only takes a slight alteration in the strength of whatever street drug he's taking, or a miscalculation with the dose, or a change in his renal function, and he's nodding behind the wheel and ploughing into a bunch of kids as a bus stop.

Losing your job sucks and with the current government could even threaten your life. But driving on drugs threatens the lives of people who have absolutely nothing to do with his drug problem. Get him off the road before you end up being responsible for what happens too.

jabby fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Mar 18, 2019

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:30

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

'progressive' party alliances chat:

Here's the thing - in the 2017 GE, 5 million people more voted against the tories than for the tories. Leaving aside the 2 million UKIP (who a cursory analysis indicate go approx 2/3 to Tory and 1/3 to Labour if UKIP drop out), that is still 3 million people more voting 'leftish' of Tory than for Tory, and I'm including SNP in this (very arguably). BUT we're SPLIT amongst labour, SNP, libdems, greens, bucketheads, etc etc.

In our local town, we have quite frequent by-elections for the town council.
There is a group called Indy ("party politics has no place at town council level and we're not a political party despite having a logo and rules for our reps" and mostly they're Yummy Mummys and their husbands) who on the whole are softly left but pro-Eu but not rabid like Fubpees. Not the same as "independents" who in our town are all tories who fell out with each other.

We put up Labour candidates. The Indys put up candidates. Both campaign. But almost every time (except the last one when the local paper printed an article pointing out that the tory candidate had been a UKIPer or BNPer or some such and had written some foul stuff about immigrants so all the tories who hadn't already sent in postal votes switched to the Indy) the tory wins without doing a single bit of campaigning or leafleting and despite the fact that they only muster 1/3rd of the vote.

I have asked our branch whether we couldn't just let the Indys have the town - there's only one ward labour ever has a chance of winning and not since the Indys turned up as the vote splits - they won't stand at county level it's against their rules and most would support our candidates at that level - but the local party refuses point blank. So we do pointless campaigning for seats we won't win - which I don't think helps our image much, wears everyone out - because it's always the same handful of people who do all the canvassing, stall minding etc, and meanwhile, with the split vote, the tories just get in by default and do things like vote down extra funding for the Citizens Advice or anything that might help actual people who actually live in the town.

I completely appreciate that if there were to be such an agreement it would have to be entirely 'under the wire' as it is against LP rules apparently. But there's no chance of getting the tories out otherwise.

The left has always been split and lefty infighting has always been a huge problem. I'm not sure how to solve it. The right is more than willing to ally with people who they don't especially agree with as long as it gets poo poo done - not having principles is helpful that way - whereas the left tends not to be, because of those pesky principles, and ideas like not wanting to work with people who lefty wrong.

Honestly, I'd dearly love to have a cross-party electoral alliance running on a platform of 'we'll institute a non-lovely voting method, then immediately rerun the election' but I can't see it actually happening, not being terribly likely to succeed if it did.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:34

radmonger: Jun 6, 2011

OwlFancier posted:

That was a novel idea when it was first written, and is still actually not well accepted, really. People love to fall back on "if only we had the right leader" and attributing changes in history to individuals rather than inexorable conflicts of circumstances outside the control of anyone.

This is either confused or wrong; leaders are made out of atoms too. A leader cannot do the impossible, but they can fail to do the possible.

At the most basic level, if FDR had said �let�s go to the moon in 10 years�, he would have failed. But equally if Kenexdy had not said that, there would have been no Apollo.

Economic changes may have made the abolition of slavery possible; they did not make it inevitable. Swap Lincoln and May and Britain would be successfully and smoothly leaving the EU in order to avoid excessive regulation of the slave trade.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:35

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

jabby posted:

Your friend is the one with a legal duty to report, not his doctor. Having said that if his doctor thinks he is still driving and presents a risk to the public they can call they DVLA themselves.

Points to keep in mind:

A) If your friend is on a stable dose of methadone, not taking any other drugs and is otherwise well he could potentially get his licence back.

B) Driving while abusing methadone is nearly as bad as drink-driving and risks the lives of everyone else on the road. Trust me, it only takes a slight alteration in the strength of whatever street drug he's taking, or a miscalculation with the dose, or a change in his renal function, and he's nodding behind the wheel and ploughing into a bunch of kids as a bus stop.

Losing your job sucks and with the current government could even threaten your life. But driving on drugs threatens the lives of people who have absolutely nothing to do with his drug problem. Get him off the road before you end up being responsible for what happens too.

I know he's your mate (OP - not Jabby) but you may have to report him yourself if he won't stop driving.
I had a relative with atrophy of the cerebellum who was losing motor control. She wouldn't stop driving. One day some young men stopped her on the motorway and drove her home - they thought she was drunk her driving was so erratic.
Anyway, after that, my sister phoned DVLA to report anonymously - apparently lots of people do that - and she was called in for a medical and banned from driving. To the day she died, my relative thought it was the young men who had 'shopped' her. My sister was very upset at having done it, but as jabby says - other peoples' lives are at risk.
I did threaten my dad that if he tried to drive (in the last few weeks before he died of cancer) I would personally shop him because he wasn't the only person on the road.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:40

Pochoclo: Feb 4, 2008; No...; Clapping Larry

Soooo was this shooter a beautiful angel as a child?

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:41

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

Possibly a quiet gardener who had just had enough and snapped, moment of madness and all that eh wot.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:45

Rooted Vegetable: Jun 1, 2002

Pochoclo posted:

Soooo was this shooter a beautiful angel as a child?

He's been described as a Turkish national. Given the behaviour of papers that's all they are going to see before casting judgement.

Edit: to be clear, and in this thread I'm not sure I need to worry, I outright condemn this from the papers and draw attention to their poor reputation

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:46

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

The Dutch news are already reporting that the alleged attacker is a convicted rapist.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:47

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

radmonger posted:

This is either confused or wrong; leaders are made out of atoms too. A leader cannot do the impossible, but they can fail to do the possible.

At the most basic level, if FDR had said �let�s go to the moon in 10 years�, he would have failed. But equally if Kenexdy had not said that, there would have been no Apollo.

Economic changes may have made the abolition of slavery possible; they did not make it inevitable. Swap Lincoln and May and Britain would be successfully and smoothly leaving the EU in order to avoid excessive regulation of the slave trade.

Maybe the reason they said or didn't say things is because of material conditions making them possible.

Maybe the reason anyone cared what they said is because a circumstantial change in society buoyed them to power in the first place.

The reason may is may and also PM is because of the circumstances we live in where absolute brain dead idiots come to power on a tide of media knob slobbering. She is an expression of late stage liberal capitalism, as Lincoln was an expression of his time. Saying "what if you swapped them" is nonsensical because neither would exist in the other's circumstances.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Mar 18, 2019

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:47

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

radmonger posted:

Economic changes may have made the abolition of slavery possible; they did not make it inevitable. Swap Lincoln and May and Britain would be successfully and smoothly leaving the EU in order to avoid excessive regulation of the slave trade.

The tensions that led to the Civil War had been building up for about half a century by the time it happened. Sure, it could be delayed even more than it had been already, but the history of the US in the first half of the 19th century is basically one of trying to compromise between slavers and abolitionists - and of the South getting increasingly left behind as the North started to develop a more advanced economy.

(Your post also seems to imply the US was a driver in slavery becoming illegal? The country that has yet to abolish slavery.)

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:50

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Tesseraction posted:

The Dutch news are already reporting that the alleged attacker is a convicted rapist.

I heard on the world service that he was in court two weeks ago on charges of shooting at an empty building and rape.

dont quite understand how he wasn't already in custody

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:51

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:51

Chucat: Apr 14, 2006

Guavanaut posted:

Zizek, you can get dense psychoanalytics words and pop culture references and so on and so on instead

The Morning Star used to have a regular "explain a Marxist concept" column, although I don't know if that's been replaced by screaming TERFs now or something.

Yeah they're here https://morningstaronline.co.uk/author/marx-memorial-library , I guess you'd start at the bottom and work up in reverse chronological order.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 15:59

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Hentai Jihadist posted:

reading into marx; Dialectical Materialism just seems to be woowoo for "events are caused by physical things, also things change constantly," but gussied up so if you google it instead of a short definition you get thousands of words and six different dead people giving you coy and indirect treatises on it.
its weird that marxism has a sort of spiritualism/religion attached to it but I suppose at the time it would have been opposing the christian just world stuff

also who in the marxist/anarchist tradition is enjoyable to read?
lenin seemed ok, i actually liked trotskys thing better but all I've read of them is their vague descriptions of dialectical materialism.

Hows bakunin and kropotkin? the only anarchist stuff I've read is Emma Goldman but I do think anarchism in theory is the obviously morally superior ideology
-insert that meme of marx falling down the stairs while bakunin yells at him-

I wouldn't call historical materialism 'woowoo' as such. It's basically Hegelian dialectics applied to the material world rather than abstract philosophy. As others have said critically focusing on the actual conditions of society and it's economic relationships, and grounding development in those big social processes rather than the actions of powerful individuals etc was a pretty big jump for the 19th C. Marx probably wouldn't have called himself a philosopher per se, because his theory was essentially an attempt to understand the world without falling back on the abstract Idealism of most contemporary authors that invested certain things and people with much 'woowoo'.

I honestly think the issue with historical materialism is it's not all that complex at the basic level, but for various reasons a lot of people overcomplicate it, making it sounds more obtuse and mystical than it actually is.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:01

Julio Cruz: May 19, 2006

JFairfax posted:

I heard on the world service that he was in court two weeks ago on charges of shooting at an empty building and rape.

dont quite understand how he wasn't already in custody

I assume you're aware that parole is a thing and that sometimes people are awarded it who probably should not have been

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:01

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Breath Ray posted:

would love to see the gist of this if you have itn handy

Read 'Mutual Aid'

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:01

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

radmonger posted:

This is either confused or wrong; leaders are made out of atoms too.

radmonger posted:

Economic changes may have made the abolition of slavery possible; they did not make it inevitable. Swap Lincoln and May and Britain would be successfully and smoothly leaving the EU in order to avoid excessive regulation of the slave trade.

I'm interested in how this alt-history would play out.

Britain abolishes slave trade in 1807 and slavery in 1833. Theresa May is born in 1809 and becomes US president in 1861 after a disastrous referendum by James Bucameron. The North somehow loses, possibly by invading Maine. A series of Harry Turtledove events lead to there being two world wars and an EU. Britain joins the EU. Why does PM Lincoln now want to leave to avoid excessive regulation of the slave trade?

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:05

Oh dear me: Aug 14, 2012; I have burned numerous saucepans, sometimes right through the metal

jabby posted:

Losing your job sucks and with the current government could even threaten your life. But driving on drugs threatens the lives of people who have absolutely nothing to do with his drug problem. Get him off the road before you end up being responsible for what happens too.

Thanks for this. To be fair I think he is quite reconciled to losing the licence and going on benefits, but the last time he did that was under a much more forgiving regime. I'm the one worrying about UC as I will have to help him apply for it, and I have no idea how to get a drug addict through the Work Capability Test.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:05

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Julio Cruz posted:

I assume you're aware that parole is a thing and that sometimes people are awarded it who probably should not have been

yes I am, but if he was in court two weeks ago - that seems a bit soon for parole.

Obviously he could have been out on bail if he had not yet been convicted

The report didn't say what the nature of the court appearance was, so it might not have been the final decision.

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:05

AceOfFlames: Oct 9, 2012

Edit: nvm, tasteless joke.

AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Mar 18, 2019

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:06

AceOfFlames: Oct 9, 2012

Quote is not edit.

AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 18, 2019

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:09

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

adults in the room is obviously going to be written extremely from varoufakis' point of view but i mean the eu court basically just ruled that the ecb can just do whatever the gently caress it wants so he's right to be pissed

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:11

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Azza Bamboo posted:

So it's not necessarily the case that someone would be denied a license as part of being on a methadone treatment regime, but that the GP would disclose if you presented as being on any significantly impairing drugs that are not part of a treatment regime whether that's someone finding methadone on the street or finding meth say?

If you are prescribed any drug that may impair your ability to drive, whether it's chemo or methadone or strong antihistamines, your GP should advise you either "don't drive" or "don't use this within x hours of driving" or if neither of those are possible that you should tell the DVLA.

I doubt a doctor would tell them on your behalf, even if just because of time constraints, unless you showed a deliberate reckless attitude, but the onus is now on you, a person with a condition affecting your ability to drive, to notify the DVLA. Your doctor can provide supporting evidence like "this person is opioid tolerant and the prescribed dose should not impair them too much to drive" but ultimately the call is the DVLAs, and if you don't tell them and have an incident you could forfeit your licence/insurance/etc.

Drug driving without a doctor agreed prescription regimen is just illegal (although some of the limits are seemingly arbitrary or just bizarre).

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:15

Azza Bamboo: Apr 7, 2018; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

The question isn't "is drug driving illegal?" (obviously it is) or "will someone have their license revoked as a result of methadone treatment" (that was cleared up earlier). It's "Will the GP inform the authorities of potential drug driving if someone presents to them as being on drugs?" Not whether they'd grass for being on Methadone they've prescribed, but whether they'd grass for any drugs they didn't. It loops back to my first question of "is this not a breach of confidence?"

Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Mar 18, 2019

# ? Mar 18, 2019 16:19