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Zuul the Cat
Dec 24, 2006

Grimey Drawer

Stephenls posted:

The following CSM units are listed as "No Longer Available" in the online store.

-Forgefiend/Maulerfiend
-Chaos Rhino
-Chaos Bikers
-Chaos Space Marine Terminator Lord
-Chaos Cultists

Note that when things are withdrawn temporarily to be reboxed with new branding and updated rules sheets to accompany an updated codex or big release wave, they're generally listed as "Temporarily Out Of Stock" or, IIRC, "Temporarily Unavailable." Stuff that's just listed as "No Longer Available" is usually gone permanently, I believe.

Some of these make sense. If they're phasing out the old terminators maybe they want to release a new terminator lord to go with them, the bikers are the same sort of crappy sculpts as the old CSM marines, the cultists are a re-tool of the sculpts from Dark Vengeance and don't even have an option for one of the two heavy weapon variants that came with DV, and I suppose the Forgefiend/Maulerfiend just... isn't as visually impressive as the newer Daemon Engines. I could see them releasing an updated kit for that that's more dynamically posed and with more spindly spikey mechadendrites.

The rhino, though? Really?

Here's my Overthinking Everything prediction:

The rhino and the chaos rhino are the same kit with an extra sprue in the chaos rhino box for adding skulls and spikes and things. They're very old sculpts. They don't adhere to the current GW sprue dimension standards, being both non-flat and the wrong size. GW still does multiple kits that share sprues, however -- look at the Knight Armigers and the Castellan/Valiant.

I think this indicates we're getting a new rhino sculpt, with the chaos version coming out first alongside the rest of this chaos release wave. The space marine wave that will follow will come with the normal rhino. The re-tool will be justified in-fluff with something about refits to allow Primaris passengers.

I'm probably wrong about this, but I was also probably wrong about Shadowspear being bespoke single-pose plastic and heralding a huge wave of new Chaos sculpts beyond what was in the Shadowspear box, and look how that turned out.

They do this to put the new rules in the box. Stores have to send their stock back and then they get shipped back out.

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Stephenls
Feb 21, 2013
[REDACTED]

Zuul the Cat posted:

They do this to put the new rules in the box. Stores have to send their stock back and then they get shipped back out.

Did you see the paragraph where I made a distinction between "Temporarily Unavailable" store listings and "No Longer Available" store listings?

(I will give you that a far more likely explanation is someone running the store chose the wrong option to list the withdrawn units under because it's not that important.)

For_Great_Justice
Apr 21, 2010

JUST CAN'T SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT HOW MUCH I HATE GAMES WORKSHOP!
If they do adjust bikes hopefully they're just bot packed and priced to terribly, at minimum I just want the champ to have a special weapon and a combi plasma.

R0ckfish
Nov 18, 2013
I remember that they have done no longer available on some kits before, sometimes when they rebox they get a new stock number.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/18/battle-sister-bulletin-3-the-charactersgw-homepage-post-4/

New BSB entry. That backpack with the attached chainsword looks rad as gently caress.

mango sentinel
Jan 5, 2001

by sebmojo

Stephenls posted:

Did you see the paragraph where I made a distinction between "Temporarily Unavailable" store listings and "No Longer Available" store listings?

(I will give you that a far more likely explanation is someone running the store chose the wrong option to list the withdrawn units under because it's not that important.)

They frequently list things as "No Longer Available" during repackagings or between reprintings. It's certainly suspect, but not in any way definitive.

Booley
Apr 25, 2010
I CAN BARELY MAKE IT A WEEK WITHOUT ACTING LIKE AN ASSHOLE
Grimey Drawer

Stephenls posted:

Did you see the paragraph where I made a distinction between "Temporarily Unavailable" store listings and "No Longer Available" store listings?

(I will give you that a far more likely explanation is someone running the store chose the wrong option to list the withdrawn units under because it's not that important.)

Your distinction was wrong. No longer available means the sku will change, and it will probably have a new web url like /chaos-rhino-2019.

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.
Oh, huh, just noticed Reivers got the Phobos tag.

The more fighty WL traits make more sense now.

Maneck
Sep 11, 2011

Stephenls posted:

Did you see the paragraph where I made a distinction between "Temporarily Unavailable" store listings and "No Longer Available" store listings?

(I will give you that a far more likely explanation is someone running the store chose the wrong option to list the withdrawn units under because it's not that important.)

You're right that product that GW was selling will no longer be available. But from GW's perspective, the product is the box, the Chaos Rhino sprues, the decals, the instructions and all the cards inside the box.

So while the old product is gone, the odds are high that the Chaos Rhino sprues will be back as part of a new product, with the same decals, with the same instructions, probably with the same box - all that will change are the cards inside.

Milotic
Mar 4, 2009

9CL apologist
Slippery Tilde

Stephenls posted:

The following CSM units are listed as "No Longer Available" in the online store.

-Forgefiend/Maulerfiend
-Chaos Rhino
-Chaos Bikers
-Chaos Space Marine Terminator Lord
-Chaos Cultists

Note that when things are withdrawn temporarily to be reboxed with new branding and updated rules sheets to accompany an updated codex or big release wave, they're generally listed as "Temporarily Out Of Stock" or, IIRC, "Temporarily Unavailable." Stuff that's just listed as "No Longer Available" is usually gone permanently, I believe.

Some of these make sense. If they're phasing out the old terminators maybe they want to release a new terminator lord to go with them, the bikers are the same sort of crappy sculpts as the old CSM marines, the cultists are a re-tool of the sculpts from Dark Vengeance and don't even have an option for one of the two heavy weapon variants that came with DV, and I suppose the Forgefiend/Maulerfiend just... isn't as visually impressive as the newer Daemon Engines. I could see them releasing an updated kit for that that's more dynamically posed and with more spindly spikey mechadendrites.

I think you are overthinking things. The Maulerfiend is from what, 2014? They’re not redoing it. It’s also still available on the UK store. Theorycrafting impending releases based on the slightly wonky website is not the best idea. Stuff disappears from listings all the time and then re-appears.

Plavski
Feb 1, 2006

I could be a revolutionary
Often it's just reboxing. We saw it a lot with the Gloomspite Gitz launch.

Stephenls
Feb 21, 2013
[REDACTED]

Milotic posted:

I think you are overthinking things. The Maulerfiend is from what, 2014? They’re not redoing it. It’s also still available on the UK store. Theorycrafting impending releases based on the slightly wonky website is not the best idea. Stuff disappears from listings all the time and then re-appears.

Huh. Hadn’t realized the Forgefiend was that new.

Further evidence that I am wrong: the old CSMs, which are definitely entirely going away, aren’t listed in the store with “No longer available;” they’re just entirely gone.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!
And the terminators are still up on the store without any indication they’re going away.

Stephenls
Feb 21, 2013
[REDACTED]
Good old apophenia. Always useful for a laugh.

Milotic
Mar 4, 2009

9CL apologist
Slippery Tilde

Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

And the terminators are still up on the store without any indication they’re going away.

Actually terminators are going away in this case. They quietly teased the new models today.

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.
I'm hearing that cultists are going to be losing legion tactics in vigilus.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!

Milotic posted:

Actually terminators are going away in this case. They quietly teased the new models today.

I know I’m just pointing out they’re not too consistent.

Milotic
Mar 4, 2009

9CL apologist
Slippery Tilde

Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

I know I’m just pointing out they’re not too consistent.

They’re gone on the UK store. Or rather, not browsable from the CSM list.

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015


Fun Shoe

Der Waffle Mous posted:

I'm hearing that cultists are going to be losing legion tactics in vigilus.

Lots of gnashing of teeth over this in the FB groups but Cultists should not be our best unit, period. They should die in droves and shoot for poo poo. They should be literal speedbumps on the tabletop with the points to match.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair

Deified Data posted:

Lots of gnashing of teeth over this in the FB groups but Cultists should not be our best unit, period. They should die in droves and shoot for poo poo. They should be literal speedbumps on the tabletop with the points to match.

They should get a points drop to go with the loss of the tactics but I welcome anything that helps make Chaos armies more Marine-centric. And I say this as somebody who is starting up a Death Guard army in earnest.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl
Cultists should never have had the heretic Astartes keyword at all.

But they're massively overcosted at 5ppm if they lose tactics and access to stratagems. Hopefully regular CSM improve somehow to make up for it.

For_Great_Justice
Apr 21, 2010

JUST CAN'T SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT HOW MUCH I HATE GAMES WORKSHOP!

Deified Data posted:

Lots of gnashing of teeth over this in the FB groups but Cultists should not be our best unit, period. They should die in droves and shoot for poo poo. They should be literal speedbumps on the tabletop with the points to match.

Would you mind linking the reactions?

OhDearGodNo
Jan 3, 2014

Hey so, I know with the Badger birthday sale they asked to be patient, however just curious- has anyone received theirs yet?

That Gobbo
Mar 27, 2010

OhDearGodNo posted:

Hey so, I know with the Badger birthday sale they asked to be patient, however just curious- has anyone received theirs yet?

I got my Sotar Slim about a month ago. I ordered the morning after the sale opened.

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT

Deified Data posted:

Lots of gnashing of teeth over this in the FB groups but Cultists should not be our best unit, period. They should die in droves and shoot for poo poo. They should be literal speedbumps on the tabletop with the points to match.

Seriously, I never understood how or why they benefitted from veterans of the long war either when the <Renegades> legion keyword cannot. So I hope that goes too. :colbert:

Genghis Cohen
Jun 29, 2013

OhDearGodNo posted:

Hey so, I know with the Badger birthday sale they asked to be patient, however just curious- has anyone received theirs yet?

I have received a notification from Royal Mail hat they're shipping a parcel to me.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

OhDearGodNo posted:

Hey so, I know with the Badger birthday sale they asked to be patient, however just curious- has anyone received theirs yet?

I think I got mine in April when I ordered last year.

Mugaaz
Mar 1, 2008

WHY IS THERE ALWAYS SOME JUSTICE WARRIOR ON EVERY FORUM
:qq::qq::qq:
AoS seems to have no problem making Armies generic troop be useful and something you want to field. I don't understand why 40k is so bad it. Best way to play CSM or DG shouldn't involve taking zero marines.

Eifert Posting
Apr 1, 2007

Most of the time he catches it every time.
Grimey Drawer

Mugaaz posted:

AoS seems to have no problem making Armies generic troop be useful and something you want to field. I don't understand why 40k is so bad it. Best way to play CSM or DG shouldn't involve taking zero marines.

Occam's razor is that GW thinks they are good

MasterSlowPoke
Oct 9, 2005

Our courage will pull us through
They're great! Give up their Boltgun and they have 2(!!!) attacks!

Maneck
Sep 11, 2011

OhDearGodNo posted:

Hey so, I know with the Badger birthday sale they asked to be patient, however just curious- has anyone received theirs yet?

I placed my order in early on the first day of the sale. I got shipping notifications yesterday.

Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

The no longer available CSM Bikers got me thinking

Space Marine Bikers were the single first box of miniatures I ever bought. I always hated how they never got love outside of the gothic rear end in a top hat ravenwing.

Lately I've been worrying they're going to stop making them, is this crazy of me to think? GW constantly moves away from the campy fun of the Rogue Trader era and I feel like Bikes are a relic that are destined for the grimdark chopping block.

But then again they'd either have to drastically change whole chapters like the White Scars or just stop talking about them all together.

Surprisingly Bitter
Oct 10, 2008

Mugaaz posted:

I'm not an expert at 40k, but every DG list I've played I've found the plague marines to be the worst part of my army. They hit like pillows for their points, even 5 man squads with double plasma were barely mediocre. I really wish they would make MEQ units actually be good.

They are atrocious. I bring a squad because of I like the flavour and it feels awful to have such a small amount of shooting in my army without a squad. If I was going Full Try Hard, I'd probably bring a couple Plague Brethren squads at most. My play group mostly plays Cities of Death, where most game types are 6 objectives, so they usually do fine at just holding one until some Hellblasters sneeze at them.

Surprisingly Bitter fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Mar 19, 2019

Preem Palver
Jul 5, 2007

PinheadSlim posted:

The no longer available CSM Bikers got me thinking

Space Marine Bikers were the single first box of miniatures I ever bought. I always hated how they never got love outside of the gothic rear end in a top hat ravenwing.

Lately I've been worrying they're going to stop making them, is this crazy of me to think? GW constantly moves away from the campy fun of the Rogue Trader era and I feel like Bikes are a relic that are destined for the grimdark chopping block.

But then again they'd either have to drastically change whole chapters like the White Scars or just stop talking about them all together.

Are you sure about this? If anything, GW seems to be going more back to the campiness of RT with the current soft reset of the setting. There's Kill Team: Rogue Trader, Blackstone Fortress and its addons, the upcoming Combat Arena, and more I'm likely forgetting. The last year has been a deluge of weird, one-off models and box sets that highlight the non-grimdark aspects of the setting in favor of expanding on the weird scifi that's been relegated to fluff in rules books for the past two decades.

Surprisingly Bitter
Oct 10, 2008

Stephenls posted:

Huh. Hadn’t realized the Forgefiend was that new.

Further evidence that I am wrong: the old CSMs, which are definitely entirely going away, aren’t listed in the store with “No longer available;” they’re just entirely gone.

Forgefiend is almost certainly for rules, since the new HQ is allegedly riding a maulerfiend variant of some sort.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Preem Palver posted:

Are you sure about this? If anything, GW seems to be going more back to the campiness of RT with the current soft reset of the setting. There's Kill Team: Rogue Trader, Blackstone Fortress and its addons, the upcoming Combat Arena, and more I'm likely forgetting. The last year has been a deluge of weird, one-off models and box sets that highlight the non-grimdark aspects of the setting in favor of expanding on the weird scifi that's been relegated to fluff in rules books for the past two decades.

Yeah, look at all the Speed Freeks stuff. One model is an airplane with the wings removed and wheels bolted on.

OhDearGodNo
Jan 3, 2014

PinheadSlim posted:

The no longer available CSM Bikers got me thinking

Space Marine Bikers were the single first box of miniatures I ever bought. I always hated how they never got love outside of the gothic rear end in a top hat ravenwing.

Lately I've been worrying they're going to stop making them, is this crazy of me to think? GW constantly moves away from the campy fun of the Rogue Trader era and I feel like Bikes are a relic that are destined for the grimdark chopping block.

But then again they'd either have to drastically change whole chapters like the White Scars or just stop talking about them all together.

Hate to break this to ya but my White Scars bikes normally stay on the shelf in favor of jump packs.

Punkinhead
Apr 2, 2015

OhDearGodNo posted:

Hate to break this to ya but my White Scars bikes normally stay on the shelf in favor of jump packs.

Of course, which sort of reinforces my fears that they're going to go away. And Inceptors/Suppressors are a thing so I'm thinking we won't see Primaris Bikers any time soon, if ever.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
Played in my first Tournament this weekend (which, actually, were also my first 2k point games...) running 180 Boyz plus Ghaz and support. Went 2-1, which I feel great about, and I learned a s**tton during. Definitely changing my list up to cover the weaknesses I found.

For competitive events, how prevalent are Movement Trays and the GW Dice Roller? I think I need to lean into those a lot more with this kind of list,. provided they're Kosher. Also at what level lam I going to be expected to have my guys painted? Not looking forward to going through 187 minis...

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JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.
I haven't played a game for a long time but I've been collecting the odd box of new cool things. If I wanted to jam my chaos marines into a list (without cultists, I'm beyond giving a gently caress about painting or paying for hordes of models) would I be boned from the start? I'd basically have some DG (basically one of each new unit/model), TS (once again, one of most of the new models without) and I'm going to grab some of the new black legion/csm models. Don't have the primarchs because of cost and effort.

I could always throw in the plaguebearers from the dark imperium box for bodies, but I would like to just throw down some elite evil dudes on the table for fun. Just don't want the fun to end on turn one when I discover that I am not even within the super casual meta. Very roughly I'd probably rhino them up and take a daemon price, some kind of tank and a named character. Just stuff I feel like painting and seeing on the table.

e: idk if this is too vague but tldr: basically will chaos meqs stand up to being on their own with more traditional support like rhinos? I've never played with these chaos models and just collect them for fun.

JBP fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Mar 19, 2019

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