|
A Sometimes Food posted:
these three specific ideas are pretty cool and could lead to interesting stories. also that's exactly what pokemon training would be, your only source of income is getting half the money of trainers you beat, which wouldn't be very much realistically, unless you can re-challenge gyms as often as you wanted
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2019 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 09:48 |
|
|
It'd probably work like sports, so maybe tournament money, and sponsorship & merchandising deals for the very best.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2019 22:23
|
|
|
There are also Pokemon daycare centers that get paid to take care of people's Pokemon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2019 22:44
|
|
|
indigi posted:these three specific ideas are pretty cool and could lead to interesting stories. also that's exactly what pokemon training would be, your only source of income is getting half the money of trainers you beat, which wouldn't be very much realistically, unless you can re-challenge gyms as often as you wanted Is it ever explained how Ash and friends get enough money to buy food, etc., in the anime, since the prize money thing doesn't even seem to exist in the anime? We see Team Rocket working odd jobs, borrowing money, and sometimes skipping meals, but the Twerps don't seem to worry about money. I guess Delia pays Ash's expenses and Norman pays May and Max's, and Pewter and Cerulean Gyms are profitable? For that matter, what does Delia do for a living? Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Mar 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Is it ever explained how Ash and friends get enough money to buy food, etc., in the anime, since the prize money thing doesn't even seem to exist in the anime? We see Team Rocket working odd jobs, borrowing money, and sometimes skipping meals, but the Twerps don't seem to worry about money. I guess Delia pays Ash's expenses and Norman pays May and Max's, and Pewter and Cerulean Gyms are profitable? For the later question, Delia's a homemaker in most continuities but I think she owns a restaurant in at least one adaptation (I think Shudo's novelizations). As for the former question... That squarely falls under the Mystery Science Theater 3000 mantra. Nothing much about how human civilization functions in the Pokémon World outside of instances that concern Pokémon directly. We don't even know if there's even a government outside of Pokémon Leagues. Zuzie fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Mar 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2019 23:59
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Is it ever explained how Ash and friends get enough money to buy food, etc., in the anime, since the prize money thing doesn't even seem to exist in the anime? We see Team Rocket working odd jobs, borrowing money, and sometimes skipping meals, but the Twerps don't seem to worry about money. I guess Delia pays Ash's expenses and Norman pays May and Max's, and Pewter and Cerulean Gyms are profitable? Ash's dad seems to be away but not estranged from the family or anything, unless I missed something, so I'd guess his line of work doesn't allow him to live at home, and sends home a paycheck every month. I think Brock handed the gym over to his dad, and Misty ran her gym with her sisters, so their respective families have some kind of income or stipend as gym leaders, which is probably a public institution. Being an itinerant trainer also seems to be considered a natural part of someone's Pokemon career, so it's not like their families would be strongly opposed to them adventuring for a few years.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2019 23:59
|
|
|
lightrook posted:Ash's dad seems to be away but not estranged from the family or anything, unless I missed something, so I'd guess his line of work doesn't allow him to live at home, and sends home a paycheck every month. Seeing as his father is barely acknowledged as existing I'd say he's pretty estranged.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 00:52
|
|
|
Ash's Dad went on a Pokemon journey to get cigarettes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 01:06
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/voluntaryreboot/status/1107593249097768961?s=21
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 01:06
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Is it ever explained how Ash and friends get enough money to buy food, etc., in the anime, since the prize money thing doesn't even seem to exist in the anime? We see Team Rocket working odd jobs, borrowing money, and sometimes skipping meals, but the Twerps don't seem to worry about money. I guess Delia pays Ash's expenses and Norman pays May and Max's, and Pewter and Cerulean Gyms are profitable? I always remember them eating in the woods and stuff, not necessarily eating at restaurants all the time. I also recall some places where trainers got free meals, so it's probably a combination of both? That or Pokemon is a utopian society where luxury goods are the only things that cost money.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 01:07
|
|
|
Chieves posted:I always remember them eating in the woods and stuff, not necessarily eating at restaurants all the time. I also recall some places where trainers got free meals, so it's probably a combination of both? Well now it seems like they can't make up their minds. What is it? Post-apocalyptic or utopian?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 01:13
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:Well now it seems like they can't make up their minds. What is it? Post-apocalyptic or utopian? The apocalypse was a loooong time ago
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 01:17
|
|
|
Chieves posted:I always remember them eating in the woods and stuff, not necessarily eating at restaurants all the time. I also recall some places where trainers got free meals, so it's probably a combination of both? They def have free healthcare, or at least, free vetanerian care
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 01:21
|
|
|
Flopsy posted:Seeing as his father is barely acknowledged as existing I'd say he's pretty estranged. At least Ness gets to talk to his dad on the phone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 01:28
|
|
|
Don’t they eat at pokémon centers? If so, maybe it’s paid for by the same fellas who keep the mice alive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 01:46
|
|
|
BattleCattle posted:Don’t they eat at pokémon centers? If so, maybe it’s paid for by the same fellas who keep the mice alive. there were episodes where they were given meals at pokemon centers i always assumed there was some sort of government program that supported you if you wanted to go out on a pokemon adventure once in your life, but after a certain amount of time you were expected to contribute more directly to society
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 02:26
|
|
|
Like... Jobs or whatever? sounds lame.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 02:29
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:there were episodes where they were given meals at pokemon centers They are contributing to society. Giant companies (Silph, Devon, etc.) exist whose entire product lines are for Trainers. Bikes are such a gigantic neccesity that they've become absurdly expensive and promoting them is a big enough job to get one for free. Big Pokemon tournaments happen near-constantly, with several people of all ages participating, with them being shown in TVs everywhere. There are several profitable jobs dedicated to Pokemon for Trainers that had their journey but decided to use their knowledge elsewhere. Rich people that are into Pokemon are exceedingly common. While non-Pokemon-related business exists (such as hotels), it's a reality that a big part if not most of society is entirely on the Pokemon business. Travelling Trainers are more than a contribution, they're a neccesity for it to continue, as they not only buy products and services, but also give entertainment (which someone must be getting profit from) and all without expecting payment other than what they get from beating each other up and doing odd jobs here and there. Pokemon Centers being free and even giving food and shelter to travelling Trainers is, therefore, an inversion by the government to keep that up. A logical, obvious one - they're unpaid, unaffiliated workers moving the economy, you want them alive and ready to keep travelling and keep purchasing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 02:50
|
|
|
I think (and I'm going to try not to get to grimdark with things here) that places like Pokemon Centers that can provide lodging and meals to trainers is something of a necessity that the government is willing to pay simple for the idea of having trainers offer protection to the rest of the world. The Pokemon world is a dangerous place, where even the most common birds can kick up whirlwinds and sandstorms, and your average rat can chew a hole straight through the wall of a house if it wanted. It stands to reason to me that the government and the world in general would be highly supportive of trainers, giving that they're out journeying collecting knowledge on how to train and handle Pokemon in a much more hands-on way than they could get elsewhere. I kind of like the idea that the system would be set up like 'go out on your journey when you're young, learn how to train and raise and fight all kinds of different Pokemon, then when you're older settle down and help protect your town/city/whatever from any wild Pokemon that might step out of bounds and do something stupid', and if you're good enough they can set you up with a gym leader position or something similar. Providing meals and lodging and the like seems like a fair trade to help keep the peace, you know?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 04:02
|
|
|
Zuzie posted:We don't even know if there's even a government outside of Pokémon Leagues. Well, there's a police force (Officer Jennies in the anime, Police as a trainer class in some of the games), and there's even an Interpol, so there definitely are non-League governments.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 04:06
|
|
|
I've always liked the idea that the gym leader is like the sheriff/fixer of the town and helps out with whatever issues come up, from crime to cave-ins. It's reasonably supported in both the show and the games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 04:15
|
|
|
Ada posted:I've always liked the idea that the gym leader is like the sheriff/fixer of the town and helps out with whatever issues come up, from crime to cave-ins. It's reasonably supported in both the show and the games. This was another thing BW did well: showing gym leader is basically a side gig to your piloting, modeling, mayoral, or being a teacher. Or diamond tycoon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 04:26
|
|
|
lightrook posted:I haven't played Ultimate enough to really know, but I remember from Melee that Mewtwo's psychic attacks used a purple-tinted version of the fire particle effects, the same as some of Ganondorf's moves. I'd believe it if Mewtwo's attacks were enhanced by fire-enhancing spirits in the World of Light adventure mode, since there isn't a category for shadow-fire like what Mewtwo and Ganondorf use, but I don't think it's meant that Mewtwo literally attacks with fire. Mewtwo is supposed to be psychic, the Mega Mewtwo spirit in Ultimate gives a bonus to psychic attacks. I'm saying it's probably an error in tagging from a develop who's not familiar with Pokemon and/or didn't bother to change the tags when re-using the fire particle effects. Ada posted:I've always liked the idea that the gym leader is like the sheriff/fixer of the town and helps out with whatever issues come up, from crime to cave-ins. It's reasonably supported in both the show and the games. Gym Leaders and their counterparts are generally implied to be community leaders of some sort, and many Gyms pull double duty as another business or facility in the games and anime. Makes a fair bit of sense given the Gym Leader is likely to be the most skilled Trainer living in the area, and generally you know where to find them. (Giovanni aside) Pokemon seem frequently implied to be very tough, and can heal extremely rapidly from most conditions unless they're very severe, as long as they're given the proper treatment. That said, the games have a good night's sleep or a once-over from a nurse function as well as a Pokemon Centre. The logistics of keeping Pokemon are probably very deliberately ignored for the most part, but does seem like there's universal healthcare for them probably to make things simple in-universe and about. (especially with how many Pokemon have incredibly varied and exotic body structures, probably best to have the most universal treatments possible all under one roof) Abundant Atrophy posted:This was another thing BW did well: showing gym leader is basically a side gig to your piloting, modeling, mayoral, or being a teacher. Or diamond tycoon. The anime does it a lot too, like with Celadon Gym being a huge greenhouse that grows plants and raises Grass types for florists and perfumes and such. And there was one gym that's basically a big skate park, and another that's a restaurant. Pokemon battles probably make for some fun dinner theatre even when you're not at one of the battle gimmick ones.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 04:29
|
|
|
Given the games have things like environmentally friendly infinite energy power-plants, the ability to digitize life and back, and various other crazy stuff I'd assume PokeWorld leans more on the side of Post-Scarcity Utopia than not. They do after all repeatedly state how easier this or that industry is made by having Pokemon help.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 04:45
|
|
|
Pokemon in the future would basically be Star Trek. Goddamn, now I want to see Star Trek characters drawn as Pokemon trainers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 04:47
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:Given the games have things like environmentally friendly infinite energy power-plants, the ability to digitize life and back, and various other crazy stuff I'd assume PokeWorld leans more on the side of Post-Scarcity Utopia than not. They do after all repeatedly state how easier this or that industry is made by having Pokemon help. While I believe that post scarcity Utopia is probably the best representative concept, the existence of ancient Pokemon just fuddle my brain on that concept. Like how recent was the scarcity if we're just now incorporating Pokemon into daily life when they've existed before humanity?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 04:58
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:Given the games have things like environmentally friendly infinite energy power-plants, the ability to digitize life and back, and various other crazy stuff I'd assume PokeWorld leans more on the side of Post-Scarcity Utopia than not. They do after all repeatedly state how easier this or that industry is made by having Pokemon help. Wasn't it implied that infinite energy came from pokemon somehow? Or am I remembering this plot point from ORAS wrong....I think it was the reason Zinnia was so lovely with Steven among other things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 05:01
|
|
|
Nasgate posted:While I believe that post scarcity Utopia is probably the best representative concept, the existence of ancient Pokemon just fuddle my brain on that concept. Like how recent was the scarcity if we're just now incorporating Pokemon into daily life when they've existed before humanity? I'd chalk it up to how Pokémon as a franchise was pre-world building. In Gen 1, it's implied that that the games takes place in the actual Kanto region of Japan, only with Pokémon instead of regular animals. Also the idea of a Pokémon League was a recent one. Flopsy posted:Wasn't it implied that infinite energy came from pokemon somehow? Or am I remembering this plot point from ORAS wrong....I think it was the reason Zinnia was so lovely with Steven among other things. They were pretty vague on what Infinity Energy actually is. It could be a stand-in for fossil fuels or nuclear power, but its implied that it comes from the lifeforce of Pokémon somehow. Its kind of a tie-in to AZ's super weapon. Zinnia's role in the plot had little to do with energy itself and more to do with the fact that the plan to stop the meteor from hitting the Hoenn region involved sending it to a different Hoenn region in an alternate reality that didn't have a means to get rid of it themselves (implied to be the Hoenn of Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald).
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 05:14
|
|
|
Nasgate posted:While I believe that post scarcity Utopia is probably the best representative concept, the existence of ancient Pokemon just fuddle my brain on that concept. Like how recent was the scarcity if we're just now incorporating Pokemon into daily life when they've existed before humanity? the pokeball itself is fairly recent iirc, which is a pretty big game changer
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 05:25
|
|
|
im not sure if its ever explicitly said what a pokeball does to a pokemon's brain but in general a newly captured pokemon is shown to be highly obedient (though not really buddy-buddy) in the show after you just gave it 4 bruised rubs and a concussion so its safe to say humanity has gotten better at making pokemon do what they want
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 05:27
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:the pokeball itself is fairly recent iirc, which is a pretty big game changer Yeah, mass produced Pokeballs are within living memory since Drayden talks about how they didn't exist when he was Iris' age in B/W2. So they're at absolute most 50-60ish years old. Before that you had Apricorn balls but those are things it takes an artisan a day to crank out individually. The advent of mass production probably opened up training to most people where before it was probably something only the rich could really do (which is partially supported by stuff like Poke- Versallies)
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 05:41
|
|
|
The whole thing where the anime attributes to pokemon complex emotion, but also an ability for humans to force them to do stuff through whatever the pokeball does, is actually pretty hosed up. I know the whole poke-slavery thing isn't really a new topic, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 05:59
|
|
|
Vandar posted:I think (and I'm going to try not to get to grimdark with things here) that places like Pokemon Centers that can provide lodging and meals to trainers is something of a necessity that the government is willing to pay simple for the idea of having trainers offer protection to the rest of the world. This all makes sense too. Also I feel that just from a pragmatic educational perspective, learning to work with and command a Pokemon is probably the most useful skill a person can have even outside the protective aspects. Like pretty much any industry can be aided by some Pokemon or other. And traveling and experiencing other cultures is a rad educational tool and goes a long way to explaining why humanity is so much more chill in the Pokemon universe (even if there still are wars). I feel this is one of the bigger issues with Shudo's ideas, he was cramming real world expectations and roles into a setting where that poo poo doesn't make sense. Like a society that incorporates a large and respected class of nomads doing odd jobs is way more interesting than the cliche examination of Japanese work culture that "trainers as wandering deadbeats pursuing childish dreams" would have been. Also the kinda cool thing that Pokemon has less nations and more individual towns with often highly specific and odd local cultures in loosely aligned leagues and that the wide acceptance of people just up and moving around especially when young means that if you stick out you don't have to conform you can just wander til you find friends to accept you. That's a really appealing bit of escapism to anyone but probably really resonates with Japan. A Sometimes Food fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Mar 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 06:28
|
|
|
Zuzie posted:I'd chalk it up to how Pokémon as a franchise was pre-world building. In Gen 1, it's implied that that the games takes place in the actual Kanto region of Japan, only with Pokémon instead of regular animals. Also the idea of a Pokémon League was a recent one. To expand on this, I think the Pokemon world is meant to reflect Japan in the sense that it rapidly and recently modernized by a huge degree, which is why we get the juxtaposition of traditional, rural villages where charcoal-making is a respected profession a stone's throw away from huge, metropolitan cities. Modern Pokemon training culture can only be as recent as the invention of the modern, mass-produced Pokeball, but there's also the sense that Pokemon training is an ancient, time-honored tradition. Since battling is a ubiquitous, traditional, and highly social form of recreation, the idea of a community having a top trainer as the person to beat who carries a lot of soft and hard power must also be very old and very widespread; the Pokemon League is therefore a modern institution for organizing and regulating the preexisting political power of these community leaders. That's how gym leaders have so much influence while still retaining a lot of freedom to do their own thing; the League must have laid down some basic requirements, gave them a title and a stipend, and otherwise let them do what works for them. Gym Leadership also seems like a part-time job, since most of them have another occupation besides; there's always a few towns where you have to go somewhere and talk to someone before the Gym Leader is in, and Giovanni is just gone for the whole day, so Gyms are probably not even expected to receive challengers 5 days a week. I guess if a Gym Leader abused their power, there'd be a complaint and then an audit and then a revocation of the title. I think we also have to take it on good faith that Pokemon are willing to battle because they want to, because there's a few examples in the anime of Pokemon that disobey their trainers and refuse to battle because they weren't up to it. The ubiquity of Pokemon centers probably helps, too, since trainers are usually pretty prompt about getting their injured Pokemon healed, because they wouldn't have their Pokemon's trust and loyalty if they didn't.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 06:56
|
|
|
lightrook posted:I think we also have to take it on good faith that Pokemon are willing to battle because they want to, because there's a few examples in the anime of Pokemon that disobey their trainers and refuse to battle because they weren't up to it. The ubiquity of Pokemon centers probably helps, too, since trainers are usually pretty prompt about getting their injured Pokemon healed, because they wouldn't have their Pokemon's trust and loyalty if they didn't. Yeah. Plus in at least one continuity it's stated that wild Pokemon attack humans to see if they're worthy of being their Trainers, so capturing a wild Pokemon in a fair fight should be seen as more like a job interview than capturing someone as a slave. This gets a bit hosed up when you take into account things like Master Balls and the capture-without-battle mechanics in Let's Go, but even Master Balls don't force obedience. The Earth Badge does if you go by strict game mechanics, but I think the lore is that Pokemon respect Trainers for earning Badges rather than Badges having magical mind control powers. This does make Jessie and James trying to "steal" Pokemon still pretty genuinely heinous; they're trying to kidnap Ash's Pikachu and the various Characters of the Day's Pokemon and make them Giovanni's slaves, basically. Although going by Meowth's fantasies about Giovanni and his attempts to talk Pikachu into joining Team Rocket, they seem to genuinely believe that the Pokemon they "steal" will genuinely come around to their side eventually.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 15:50
|
|
|
Zuzie posted:
Oh I know that was the main reason she was pissed absolutely. But the whole making infinite energy from the life-force of pokemon has unfortunate implications. Like how exactly does that work? The last time AZ used it, it meant killing almost all the pokemon in the region. Does it still involve something along those lines or has the devon corp somehow made it go "green"? Steven's dad is really vague on what that entails....
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 16:16
|
|
|
A Sometimes Food posted:This all makes sense too. Some of this definitely stems from taking the Adventurer template from other RPGs like Dragon Quest and putting it into the semi- modern pokemon setting and trying to marry some of the conceits like the professional wanderer or how enemies drop money.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 17:24
|
|
|
Xelkelvos posted:Some of this definitely stems from taking the Adventurer template from other RPGs like Dragon Quest and putting it into the semi- modern pokemon setting and trying to marry some of the conceits like the professional wanderer or how enemies drop money. Oh definitely, I am fully aware this is what happened and likely wasn't the writers' intent from the start. But the implication's always been there and only gotten stronger as the games/anime have progressed and just kind of rolled with it and I feel over time it's evolved into a really interesting element of the setting and a big part of the underlying appeal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 18:22
|
|
|
Man, Giovanni was the dumbest fucker in the entire anime. Dude had a TALKING Meowth, that's something that would have been super easy to make money off of! But instead of making mad cash with one of the only Pokemon capable of speech in the entire world he sends that super special Meowth off with two random chucklefucks and gets a regular ol' non-talking Persian. What a moron.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 18:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 09:48 |
|
|
Silver2195 posted:The Earth Badge does if you go by strict game mechanics, but I think the lore is that Pokemon respect Trainers for earning Badges rather than Badges having magical mind control powers. the amount of baggage carried by this idea implies pokemon have human-equivalent (or so near that any difference is essentially meaningless) intelligence
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 19:19
|
|