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Generally your health insurance will also cover you until the end of the month so if you left April 1st, you'd be covered until May 1st.
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Mar 21, 2019 16:22
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So, if I go the salary negotiation route, should I not only lay out why I’m an asset, but also that when I was hired I was told I would be getting significant raises as well as not having to work nights and weekends?
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Mar 21, 2019 16:37
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Internal negotiating when getting promoted is basically just "yeah, thanks for the offer" unless there's extenuating circumstances, right? I can't imagine a way this conversation goes that ends up with any more than they bring me the first time around.
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Mar 21, 2019 17:01
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There is no salary negotiation. There is you asking for a favour and them choosing to grant it, or not.
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Mar 21, 2019 22:04
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Bloody Cat Farm posted:Yeah that sucks. I don’t have written proof. The same thing was told to another guy who started at the same time as I did. I could have him say that he was told the same thing, except he left the company. Ugh. This whole thing is frustrating.
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Mar 22, 2019 01:50
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Jordan7hm posted:There is no salary negotiation. There is you asking for a favour and them choosing to grant it, or not. This is 100% true, besides asking you can only threaten to leave. It may get you a raise but most likely it’ll trigger your boss to finding a replacement since you are “untrustworthy”.
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Mar 22, 2019 07:01
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Thanks for the advice everyone. It does help me to see things in a new light. I know what I’m going to have to do.
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Mar 22, 2019 09:41
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I'm slowly working my way back into regular job searching now that my wife is employed again, and please remind me- what is the standard tactic when you run into a headhunter who contacts you about a position and says they need your salary requirements before giving your application to the actual hiring manager? The role is a new one for them and not one I've seen before in my industry, so there's a pretty wide salary range in my mind and I could go pretty high with my demand. At the same time I know I'm supposed to put off salary discussion as late as possible in the process, but there must be an easier way to get around this gatekeeping by the recruiter since they always ask this.
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Mar 28, 2019 13:44
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Just give an enormous number and say it's all contingent on benefits, work environment, hours, type of work, etc.
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Mar 28, 2019 14:05
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C-Euro posted:I'm slowly working my way back into regular job searching now that my wife is employed again, and please remind me- what is the standard tactic when you run into a headhunter who contacts you about a position and says they need your salary requirements before giving your application to the actual hiring manager? The role is a new one for them and not one I've seen before in my industry, so there's a pretty wide salary range in my mind and I could go pretty high with my demand. At the same time I know I'm supposed to put off salary discussion as late as possible in the process, but there must be an easier way to get around this gatekeeping by the recruiter since they always ask this. Yup. Take the highest number you're willing to say, add 20% to that, then pin on the words "negotiable based on benefits and the specifics of the role"
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Mar 28, 2019 17:04
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pokie posted:Thanks, I did that. It's a little weird that they chose to broach this subject between a technical phone screen and an onsite meeting, but whatever. Not sure if you mean this is unusual for recruiting or it just feels weird to you, but that is entirely normal to have that period be the time when numbers are discussed. It lets them know if your expectations are totally out of line with what they can offer or if they should start licking their chops at getting you for a steal. Obviously the conventional wisdom is to avoid giving the first number.
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Mar 28, 2019 17:22
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Not a Children posted:Yup. Take the highest number you're willing to say, add 20% to that, then pin on the words "negotiable based on benefits and the specifics of the role" I requested 33% more than I currently make and the recruiter immediately responded that he thought it was a fair number lol, next time I should ask for 40%.
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Mar 28, 2019 19:23
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I'm serious when I say ask for as high a number as your psyche will let you If you undershoot, recruiters eagerly pass on your number to the client while licking their chops thinkin' bout their commission If you overshoot, they will tell the client "they came in high but I think I can talk them down" while licking their chops thinkin' bout their commission If you're feeling very ornery and have time to burn you can always say "the opportunity sounds interesting but I'd like to learn more before I'm able to put a number forth" and then you're free to jerk them around as you please. There's always more information to be had.
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Mar 28, 2019 19:45
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C-Euro posted:I requested 33% more than I currently make and the recruiter immediately responded that he thought it was a fair number lol, next time I should ask for 40%. My dude, are you new to this? Because, let me tell you the first two rules. 1. Never trust anything a recruiter says. 2. Never, ever trust anything a recruiter says.
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Mar 28, 2019 20:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:My dude, are you new to this? Because, let me tell you the first two rules. Oh I am for sure not getting called back on this one if the company's job requirements are accurate, I'm just saying that while 33% would be a gently caress load of an increase for me I should have gone for the mega gently caress load. I haven't done this in a while so excuse me for being rusty.
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Mar 28, 2019 21:08
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Job listing requirements are rarely if ever accurate. If you meet their list you are mostly likely way over qualified.
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Mar 28, 2019 21:12
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Headhunter: "So what sort of salary range would you be thinking of?" Me: "It would have to depend on the whole package, obviously." Headhunter: "Yeah but what sort of range? I know you haven't been interviewing recently, but even internal recruiters would need to know a range before continuing." Me: "Well, can you tell me what sort of salary the places you are mentioning might give?" Headhunter: "Well they don't give me a range but we've placed at x with y bonus, mostly." Me: "Yeah that sounds reasonable, pending full packages, again." seems about right? edit: this is indeed the first time I'm interviewing for the last dozen years, so I'm v rusty and don't want to handicap myself before I even get started silvergoose fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 16:18
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I mean... the recruiter is just going to say that you're ok with x, so you're basically anchored anyway
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Apr 3, 2019 16:28
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As long as you're happy with your current job can't you just say no and ask for more? Like they can't compel you to work for them for X if you don't want to.
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Apr 3, 2019 16:57
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silvergoose posted:Headhunter: "So what sort of salary range would you be thinking of?" It kinda depends on how patient you can afford to be. I think I've mentioned it a couple times in this thread, but a good power move is to simply say no. There are varying levels of buttering it up. Hardball: "No, I do not have a number in mind. I'm clearly qualified for this position, so it'd be a real shame to walk away over this minor detail." Softball: "Well, I'm certainly interested in learning more about the position, but I'd like a better understanding of my responsibilities and the day-to-day of the position before we discuss compensation." Lead-em-on ball: "Let me do some research and get back to you on that. In the meantime, can we discuss the responsibilities of the position further?" (and then you pretty much say variations on this every time they ask afterwards until they get fed up and someone on their end either disengages or puts forth a number. If they get resentful about it just say you will consider all reasonable offers, but you don't have a number in mind, sorry.) They want the commission (and therefore your continued engagement) more than they want the number specifically, so if they think they can place you don't be shy about blowing them off about salary requirements.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:02
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Something Offal posted:Not sure if you mean this is unusual for recruiting or it just feels weird to you, but that is entirely normal to have that period be the time when numbers are discussed. It lets them know if your expectations are totally out of line with what they can offer or if they should start licking their chops at getting you for a steal. Obviously the conventional wisdom is to avoid giving the first number. I have done plenty of interviews, btu this is the first time this subject is broached in the middle of the process instead of the beginning or the end.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:42
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All good answers, thanks. This is just the most aggressive headhunter that's contacted me so far. I made it clear that I would be looking at an overall package, regardless, but I guess even suggesting that yeah that sounds like it might be okay is too much?
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Apr 3, 2019 17:45
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I just got off a call with a couple external recruiters. It looks like their client wants to give me an offer and they were feeling me out for what it would take. They know I have two final rounds coming up, one with a company that also likely wants me and I am keen on. They asked me what it would take for me to stop interviewing. I gave them a number that's 33% above my last salary. I will be happy to make what I made before I left my last job, so that seemed reasonable. Then they kept going on about how if they don't think that I will accept an offer that they wouldn't bother going beyond a verbal offer to the written stage. They seemed to really want to know which company I will pick and what I want for it. They asked what would happen if their client couldn't meet my number above, where could we meet etc. This seemed odd to me since if I give them a lower number for that it undermined the negotiating position of my high number. Argh. I called them out on that and they claimed that of course they wouldn't reveal the lower number to the client. Right. I probably hosed up since I admitted that if I had identical offers on the table I wouldn't outright reject an offer that was only 17% above my last salary. That said, I am not sure how I would feel about getting paid way more than I was at my last job. Performance expectations in this field can run pretty high, and asking a lot probably doesn't help with that.
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Apr 3, 2019 18:16
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silvergoose posted:All good answers, thanks. This is just the most aggressive headhunter that's contacted me so far. Releasing a number pre-offer is a binary decision. You've either done it or you haven't. If he suggests a number and you nod, you've anchored your starting point there. If he suggests a number and it sounds okay, there are a number of ways to move the conversation along outright giving him a confirmation like "that's an interesting figure, but again, I'm more concerned with whether this is a good fit." pokie posted:I just got off a call with a couple external recruiters. It looks like their client wants to give me an offer and they were feeling me out for what it would take. They know I have two final rounds coming up, one with a company that also likely wants me and I am keen on. They asked me what it would take for me to stop interviewing. I gave them a number that's 33% above my last salary. I will be happy to make what I made before I left my last job, so that seemed reasonable. Then they kept going on about how if they don't think that I will accept an offer that they wouldn't bother going beyond a verbal offer to the written stage. They seemed to really want to know which company I will pick and what I want for it. They asked what would happen if their client couldn't meet my number above, where could we meet etc. This seemed odd to me since if I give them a lower number for that it undermined the negotiating position of my high number. Argh. I called them out on that and they claimed that of course they wouldn't reveal the lower number to the client. Right. I probably hosed up since I admitted that if I had identical offers on the table I wouldn't outright reject an offer that was only 17% above my last salary. This seems kind of common these days. They don't want to extend you the For Real offer until they've isolated you and kind of gotten you sunk into it -- one of the ways they do this is by pressuring you to stop talking to other companies by teasing your imagination with a high desired number. The optimal decision here is to say if you like the offer, you'll stop interviewing. Otherwise, you're going to keep looking and getting offers until you find one you'll take. Admitting what your stopping point was a mistake, and it's an easy one to make, especially in a high-pressure sitch like that. At this point you'll just have to see what they come back with. Next time, if they get you to give up your pie-in-the-sky (which should be AS HIGH AS YOU CAN MAKE YOURSELF COMFORTABLY PRONOUNCE if you're naming the number first) try "see how they respond and we'll take it from there. I'm open to a little horse-trading" or something to that effect. If you've held off on giving a number up to that point, hit 'em with something along the lines of "I'll need to consider all aspects of compensation, of course, but I will consider any reasonable salary they offer." If they outright drop you, that means they weren't interested in negotiating in the first place and you dodged a bullet -- they were more interested in filling a seat than hiring a competent employee. They will work you the same amount no matter how little they get away with paying you. Don't feel guilty about asking for money. They certainly won't feel guilty about not giving it to you.
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Apr 3, 2019 18:50
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Holy blazing poo poo fellas, when recruiters demand a number just tell them a really high number, and when they start with the "well we need a lower number or Company X isn't going to be willing to proceed" song and dance just say "sorry to hear that, good luck, bye" and hang up. I don't care if in reality you're desperate for a new job and desperately want this interview, if you don't act like they need you more than you need them and everyone involved knows it, you will be played like a piano and taken advantage of. Do whatever you need to do to practice talking to recruiters using high pressure weasel tactics until you've fooled yourself into acting like you're the hottest commodity on the goddamn market. You tell them how it is if the process is to move forward, not the other way around. edit: if you don't feel confident enough to take control of your interactions with recruiters, loving fake it. If Donald Trump can bluster and bluff his way all the way to the goddamn Oval Office, you can do this, I promise. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 21:51
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Fair nuf. Also I didn't much like that recruiter so hey, I can just not follow up with him anymore. Lots more calls and stuff, with no numbers discussed at all, so yeah.
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Apr 3, 2019 21:57
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Not a Children posted:Releasing a number pre-offer is a binary decision. You've either done it or you haven't. If he suggests a number and you nod, you've anchored your starting point there. If he suggests a number and it sounds okay, there are a number of ways to move the conversation along outright giving him a confirmation like "that's an interesting figure, but again, I'm more concerned with whether this is a good fit." For reference I asked for 200,000 as "I will accept and stop searching" figure. That seems reasonably unreasonable to me. If I thought I could possibly make more I would probably be some hot poo poo at Google making 7 figures. Also I am somewhat surprised it's a mistake to give them a really high figure for this. At least in my limited experience that's how I got a 30k raise once before. Anyway, we'll see what happens. Hopefully the other party isn't gonna drop the ball and I will have two quasi offers to pick from.
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Apr 4, 2019 00:58
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pokie posted:For reference I asked for 200,000 as "I will accept and stop searching" figure. That seems reasonably unreasonable to me. If I thought I could possibly make more I would probably be some hot poo poo at Google making 7 figures. Also I am somewhat surprised it's a mistake to give them a really high figure for this. At least in my limited experience that's how I got a 30k raise once before. Anyway, we'll see what happens. Hopefully the other party isn't gonna drop the ball and I will have two quasi offers to pick from. I think the poster was more talking about giving up the lower number when pressured, not the fact that you gave them a pie in the sky number. As you already know, don’t take the bait of them asking you to stop interviewing though. That’s a lovely tactic to let them lowball you and get you committed without anything in writing. Btw Not A Children that’s an excellent post and something I will be internalizing because I’ve had difficulties dealing with over aggressive tricky recruiters, and a stupid tendency to avoid conflict even when it’s against my own interest. Tetramin fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Apr 4, 2019 |
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Apr 4, 2019 21:01
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Tetramin posted:I think the poster was more talking about giving up the lower number when pressured, not the fact that you gave them a pie in the sky number. As you already know, don’t take the bait of them asking you to stop interviewing though. That’s a lovely tactic to let them lowball you and get you committed without anything in writing. Ah that makes sense and is fair. Fwiw they came back with 185k and 15k signing bonus if I start on Monday. That's substantially above industry average in my locale so I am reasonably happy. I told them "I accept the offer. I would like to see a formal offer we could sign at which point I can terminate the rest of my search conclusively." This seems reasonable to me.
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Apr 5, 2019 04:05
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pokie posted:Ah that makes sense and is fair. Congrats dude. This Monday? Guess they really want to get you in badly. Don't feel pressured into signing anything you're uncomfortable with without reviewing thoroughly.
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Apr 5, 2019 15:35
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The company I work for just laid off a significant amount of it's work force. The team that I'm on just consisted of me and my boss who they decided to let go so now I am responsible for his tasks as well. I'm extremely overloaded with work and I am the only person in the whole company that can do what I can do. My boss had 5 years of experience while I have only 1.5 years with the company - what would you recommend I do here? I always felt underpaid before but my boss informed me of a promotion coming last month. Now since the company had to lay off so many people, no one is sure what's going to happen anymore. I have been looking for opportunities in the meantime.
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Apr 5, 2019 17:54
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Thanks, Not a Children! I accepted. It was a pretty standard deal. They don't have a PTO policy, i.e. talk to your manager, which is kinda meh (an attempt to game people into not taking any PTO). Otherwise it's a standard short form accompanied by a long-ish intellectual property agreement. The recruiting agency that arranged this sent me some documents about ending my job search etc. now. Here's a fun quote: quote:Candidates need to keep level headed and not get caught up in the emotion of the counteroffer. Here are some universal and objective truths you should consider before ever taking a counteroffer: It goes on to say that you should do what's best for you etc. so it's not completely one-sided, but I love me some universal and objective truths. Busy Bee posted:The company I work for just laid off a significant amount of it's work force. The team that I'm on just consisted of me and my boss who they decided to let go so now I am responsible for his tasks as well. I'm extremely overloaded with work and I am the only person in the whole company that can do what I can do. I would assume that I am about to get the axe to in this situation. Get offers. If you can parlay one into a raise and think that the company is stable, that could work. But it sounds like you might be better off elsewhere.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:00
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Post/name combo! Don’t kill yourself with overwork and intensify your job search, that company sounds completely doomed and there is no upside for your putting in a lot of extra effort.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:00
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e: Nevermind sorry.
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Apr 5, 2019 18:04
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Busy Bee posted:The company I work for just laid off a significant amount of it's work force. The team that I'm on just consisted of me and my boss who they decided to let go so now I am responsible for his tasks as well. I'm extremely overloaded with work and I am the only person in the whole company that can do what I can do.
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Apr 5, 2019 19:06
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Busy Bee posted:The company I work for just laid off a significant amount of it's work force. The team that I'm on just consisted of me and my boss who they decided to let go so now I am responsible for his tasks as well. I'm extremely overloaded with work and I am the only person in the whole company that can do what I can do. Work your 40 hours per week, go home on time, don't do a minute of extra work and invest your energy into the job search. Let them burn once you find something better. They fired your boss because you were the cheaper option. Don't expect any raise or promotion in that situation.
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Apr 5, 2019 20:26
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Busy Bee posted:The company I work for just laid off a significant amount of it's work force. The team that I'm on just consisted of me and my boss who they decided to let go so now I am responsible for his tasks as well. I'm extremely overloaded with work and I am the only person in the whole company that can do what I can do.
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Apr 5, 2019 21:36
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I really appreciate everyone's comments and advice. I already started networking and looking at other opportunities a few days after they laid off my boss. Another stressful aspect of my current situation is that the woman that I now report to is, out of my career, the most immature and patronizing person I have ever had to report to. When it comes to work, she's very knowledgeable but her emotional intelligence is lacking and she constantly patronizes me and it is clear that she does not take me or my capabilities seriously. This is the complete polar opposite of my previous boss that they laid off. This isn't my first job so I really understood and appreciated how amazing my previous boss that they laid off was and I never ever took a day with him for granted. He trusted me, was always respectful, and always had my back. I guess this situation just adds more determination in me to find a new opportunity somewhere else but any advice would also be appreciated. There are some work days where my mood does a complete 180 and I not only feel underappreciated, I feel that I have the whole weight of the company on my shoulders. I will not overwork my self and prioritize my job search. Busy Bee fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Apr 6, 2019 |
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Apr 6, 2019 06:27
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Busy Bee posted:I really appreciate everyone's comments and advice. I already started networking and looking at other opportunities a few days after they laid off my boss. Embrace the coast while you job hunt
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Apr 6, 2019 16:10
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Busy Bee posted:I really appreciate everyone's comments and advice. I already started networking and looking at other opportunities a few days after they laid off my boss.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:07
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