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inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
It makes sense that rat girl and horse boy wouldn't get along



Also, if you haven't used the "switch" command on paired up characters yet in your recordings, you should try it out. It's one of the most blatant ways to cheat the action economy in this game.

inthesto fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Mar 22, 2019

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Whamukars
May 9, 2016

"There are no facts, only interpretations."
Rat Spirit sounds like a craft beer, also Chome is not the only one that can use dragon veins, anyone with a crown next to their name can

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




This was a fun one.

Whamukars posted:

Rat Spirit sounds like a craft beer, also Chome is not the only one that can use dragon veins, anyone with a crown next to their name can

Yeah, they're probably five parts recorded ahead now but whatever.



Also if you don't want to move absolutely everyone forward then you don't have to. Just move who you need to and bring up the menu to end your turn.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
For the record: I dislike Subaki, partly because his attitude annoys me, and partly because he is a strictly inferior unit when compared to Hinoka. I mean, setting aside the starting weapons (though Hinoka comes with a really good one for tanking, since it gives +5 to both Defense and Resistance, albeit at the cost of having really low attack power, though that can be useful in itself depending on the situation), their bases and growths are as follows (formatted as Base Value/Innate Growth to save space)...

Subaki: Level 5, 22/55% HP, 8/30% STR, 0/20% MAG, 13/50% SKL, 10/20% SPD, 7/25% Luck, 9/45% DEF, 10/5% RES.
Hinoka: Level 8, 23/45% HP, 9/45% STR, 4/15% MAG, 13/40% SKL, 16/40% SPD, 12/40% LCK, 9/35% DEF, 15/40% RES.

I mean, yes, Subaki's got slightly better bases (relative to levels) and growths for a physical tank... but that's completely missing the point of his class (especially with that pathetic 5% Resistance growth, which really hinders his usefulness). Hinoka, meanwhile, has only slightly lower stats in the categories Subaki's good in, PLUS she's actually got good bases and growths for their class so she isn't subpar-to-terrible at her job. The fact that you can recruit her exactly one stage after Subaki just cements his "terrible unit" status, because he doesn't even get exclusivity. From what I've seen, getting good, class-appropriate growths on Subaki is the exception rather than the rule (as proven by the growth rates I've posted here); he'd really do better as a Knight.

Of course, Subaki isn't the only offender in this game; more on that later.

Metis of the Chat Thread
Aug 1, 2014


Glad to see Orochi is being recognised as The Best Character. Rats are very powerful.

Also Chome can promote whenever, don't worry about a plot promotion, they don't have those in this game.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




https://i.imgur.com/ZJwnbFf.mp4

Mechanics!

SubNat
Nov 27, 2008

RareAcumen posted:

Also if you don't want to move absolutely everyone forward then you don't have to. Just move who you need to and bring up the menu to end your turn.

Or even just use the auto.
You can set the auto to 'rush' I think it was, at which point it'll move the units towards the closest enemies.

It's very good for situations where you've already moved the couple of units you wanted to move, but don't want to move all the rest of them.

Kangra
May 7, 2012

I hope we get to upgrade the combat parasol to something like this one. (Especially if we get to do the slide maneuver that's later in the movie).

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
There is only one combat umbrella

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytMK-ScO8WY&t=58s

e: I want to amend my previous statement, it's not the crystal ball that has goodies you want, it's the Dragon's Gate which is the DLC portal. There's some free DLC that just dumps free items on you.

inthesto fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Mar 23, 2019

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
So like did we accidentally skip over the part where anyone explained what the hell we were even doing in Wind Town, or why there's apparently an enormous staircase on the way that you'd think would be like a loving wonder of the world? Or where what's his name with the hair went before he vanished? Or why we came along without Hinoka and why she's hastily catching up with her weird friends?

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Fedule posted:

So like did we accidentally skip over the part where anyone explained what the hell we were even doing in Wind Town, or why there's apparently an enormous staircase on the way that you'd think would be like a loving wonder of the world? Or where what's his name with the hair went before he vanished? Or why we came along without Hinoka and why she's hastily catching up with her weird friends?

The Wind Town part can be easily explained by "it's the fastest route to wherever they're going." I mean, they obviously wouldn't expect too much trouble just going through their own territory, so they'd logically go straight there, right? The fact that Cutscene Powers and Narrative forced a conflict was not their fault (I mean, we saw those guys as Faceless, and it's reasonable to assume that it went the other way too).

Not sure about the stairs; I guess the devs just wanted something visually impressive.

I... don't really know who you're talking about, so I'm gonna assume Yukimura. Anyway, he's probably some sort of official who's been left in charge while all the royalty's away.

We left without Hinoka because she wasn't in that fort with us and we didn't have time to go grab her, I guess.

But no, part of the reason Fates is bad is the fact that it never explains itself; it has a terrible habit of bringing up elements the instant they're convenient and then discarding them as soon as it's done with them.

Metis of the Chat Thread
Aug 1, 2014




Orochi and her rat buddy (from the fire emblem trading card game)

JetpackJeezus
Jul 27, 2011

Heaven Can Wait
:owned:



InspectorCarbonara
Jul 2, 2010

Evening, patrolmaaan.
The best thing about the umbrella is that there's a special attack (I think it's astra) where the animation for it has the character attacking multiple times in a row. If it triggers while you're using the umbrella at range you get an animation of your character throwing like five umbrellas at the enemy.

Kuvo
Oct 27, 2008

Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!
Fun Shoe
:frogsiren: bideo :frogsiren:
Ep 12 - Land of Gods

Kuvo fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Mar 25, 2019

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
Hana is like, the only unit in all of Birthright who has stat growths that actually make sense.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




inthesto posted:

Hana is like, the only unit in all of Birthright who has stat growths that actually make sense.

That said they've been getting some really good level ups and random items from the My Castle area. Normally swords are just screwed when it comes to ranged attacks.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
I just realized how stupid the Fierce Winds clear cutscene is: Fuga asks for an explanation for you attacking his tribe... and Chome completely blows him off. Makes you wonder why Fuga isn't pissed off at you. Yet another reason for me to hate this game's script, I guess.

As far as the Prison goes... It lets you capture generic enemies and a few bosses. I like the idea of capturing a Sky Knight, a Shrine Maiden, the Nohrian basic healer unit, and almost all of their promoted classes. Sure, that's basically saying "capture all the female generics" (I am unrepentant), but it still manages to be a surprisingly well-rounded team; only issue is the lack of a physical tank.

Somehow those trees just make that area look even emptier to me. How is it possible to make something look emptier than a wasteland?!

It's really bothering me how you're not doing the Paralogue... but that's coming from a guy whose gaming philosophy is literally "always get sidetracked."

...While the Idiot Squad (my new name for the protagonist's party) were talking about how long they were waiting for Izana I mistook some of those wall decorations for giant playing cards. Cannot unsee.

Is anyone surprised in the least about this "impersonated by the enemy" thing?

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

CptWedgie posted:

Is anyone surprised in the least about this "impersonated by the enemy" thing?

I don't know what's less surprising, that it turned out the Archduke was a fake, or that Chome was dumb enough to fall for it.

BioMe
Aug 9, 2012


See here's the part where Robin would go "this is a cute plan, but here's how I've already hosed you five times over"

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
I'm a big fan of how this entire mini-arc is completely needless and serves only to waste five minutes of your time while leading you into the exact same starting condition as literally every other chapter, while Some Guy taunts you from across the battlefield. Having CorrinChome and Sakura have Idiot Ball plots is just a big unforced error by the writers, even by the standards they've established for themselves so far.

I'm gonna get angry about pacing again. The last time I did this I was talking about the plot as a whole, between missions, but this time I'm unhappy with how the flow of individual missions is also kinda borked, so far.

Something that the Tellius games did extremely well and which I don't think the designers of the later games really appreciated in retrospect was having the Base Menu be a part of the pre-mission preamble flow. It was extremely good as a tool for managing the pacing of the constant barrage of cutscenes that variously move the plot forward, establish areas, introduce characters, and lead into gameplay. It worked like this: You see the chapter title, you get some establishing scenes of the area and some character chatter (eg, we've just set sail, this is our route which takes us through pirate territory, and we take a moment to process some serious poo poo we saw go down in the last mission). You then transition into the Base Menu, where you can agonise over menus to your hearts content, including doing shopping, equipping and levelling your dudes, and viewing additional conversations - most chapters have extra, non-procedurally-generated conversations where everyone mills around, or sometimes they just give you items - and seeing Supports. Then, you hit the Mission Button, and you get the cutscenes that transition directly into the deployment menu (oh no! pirates! battle formation!). Having the Base Menu in the middle accomplishes some extremely important tasks; it adds a mental beat between arriving at a place and going into combat, it makes the passage of time feel more organic, and it provides a narrative opening for the player to do management stuff.

Contrast Fire Emblem Fates Conqright. We emerge from whatever mission we were just in straight to our astral timeshare castle where we build houses and play the lottery. We then press the Mission Button and phase out of there straight into a trudge into another country, where the people we just fed some magic peaches that they loved are now tired and wounded, and then we're introduced to a new character who exposits at us about this new place, and then some stuff happens, and an entire little story plays out, and now we're taking up positions (so let's view Supports right before the battle!). All in one continuous cutscene. Even if the arc that plays out was good, without the break in the middle it's just too much.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Fedule posted:

I'm a big fan of how this entire mini-arc is completely needless and serves only to waste five minutes of your time while leading you into the exact same starting condition as literally every other chapter, while Some Guy taunts you from across the battlefield. Having CorrinChome and Sakura have Idiot Ball plots is just a big unforced error by the writers, even by the standards they've established for themselves so far.

I'm gonna get angry about pacing again. The last time I did this I was talking about the plot as a whole, between missions, but this time I'm unhappy with how the flow of individual missions is also kinda borked, so far.

Something that the Tellius games did extremely well and which I don't think the designers of the later games really appreciated in retrospect was having the Base Menu be a part of the pre-mission preamble flow. It was extremely good as a tool for managing the pacing of the constant barrage of cutscenes that variously move the plot forward, establish areas, introduce characters, and lead into gameplay. It worked like this: You see the chapter title, you get some establishing scenes of the area and some character chatter (eg, we've just set sail, this is our route which takes us through pirate territory, and we take a moment to process some serious poo poo we saw go down in the last mission). You then transition into the Base Menu, where you can agonise over menus to your hearts content, including doing shopping, equipping and levelling your dudes, and viewing additional conversations - most chapters have extra, non-procedurally-generated conversations where everyone mills around, or sometimes they just give you items - and seeing Supports. Then, you hit the Mission Button, and you get the cutscenes that transition directly into the deployment menu (oh no! pirates! battle formation!). Having the Base Menu in the middle accomplishes some extremely important tasks; it adds a mental beat between arriving at a place and going into combat, it makes the passage of time feel more organic, and it provides a narrative opening for the player to do management stuff.

Contrast Fire Emblem Fates Conqright. We emerge from whatever mission we were just in straight to our astral timeshare castle where we build houses and play the lottery. We then press the Mission Button and phase out of there straight into a trudge into another country, where the people we just fed some magic peaches that they loved are now tired and wounded, and then we're introduced to a new character who exposits at us about this new place, and then some stuff happens, and an entire little story plays out, and now we're taking up positions (so let's view Supports right before the battle!). All in one continuous cutscene. Even if the arc that plays out was good, without the break in the middle it's just too much.

All of this is a good point and I never really thought of it too much since I've only played Gaiden remake, Fates, and Awakening but you can do the supports in the astal home base, you don't have to do them right at the mission beginning. The pacing is probably a factor of this being two to three games of story chopped and mixed up all over the place.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

today's thing I can't get over: the rulers of Hoshido being named King Emperor and Queen Ladyship

Kuvo
Oct 27, 2008

Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!
Fun Shoe
:frogsiren: video :frogsiren:
Ep 13 - Land of Gods (part 2)

hope yall are ready for an hour of me moving doods around

Kuvo
Oct 27, 2008

Blame it on the misfortune of your bark!
Fun Shoe
huh i could have cut this at 40 mins oh well

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


Kuvo posted:

hope yall are ready for an hour of me moving doods around

Sounds like the quintessential Fire Emblem experience.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
With regards to how offensive assists work, minifoo was correct. The range on the assister's weapon is entirely irrelevant. If they're sitting next to the initiator, they'll get their hit in.

Also, pair ups block all offensive assists, unconditionally. This makes pair ups really useful defensively.

Gruckles
Mar 11, 2013

Also when you have multiple units next to each other, you can choose which one will do the team up attack with the R-button.

coleman francis
Aug 8, 2007

Tap tap
The ketchup bottle
None will come
Then axolotl
Hair Elf
God I could really go for some chicken grease right now

Carlosologist
Oct 13, 2013

Revelry in the Dark

Pair up is such a busted mechanic that really could have used more testing, but I guess you can say that about this whole game

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Carlosologist posted:

Pair up is such a busted mechanic that really could have used more testing, but I guess you can say that about this whole game

It was more powerful in Awakening, if you can believe it. Here, some weapons may prevent you from doing co-op attacks and I think it cuts the damage in half or something. Awakening had no limits. Paired together, standing next to someone, full damage attacks from both people.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Plus awakening had a flat chance to nullify all damage based on support rank, so married couples would only get 15%ish of the time. Before dodging is counted in.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
Pair up is certainly strong, but it's actually a mechanic that the game does 100% right. It's best for defensive purposes and allows you to do some sleight of hand with the action economy, but but the offensive gains are relatively minor and more importantly it cuts down on the raw number of actions you have per turn. If you pair up too much of your army at once, you will lose significant amounts of offensive power, which will bite you in the rear end on maps where you have time limits or need to push the offense (I don't think Birthright has any of these maps).

Compare this to Awakening, where S-rank pair ups become functionally invincible. The difficulty in Awakening straight up evaporates when you start hitting B and A rank supports.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
To my knowledge, no Fire Emblem game has ever allowed you to have more than one character capable of giving extra turns to other units simultaneously, for the very good reason of "if they did you'd be able to cross the map with them in one turn regardless of size."

Hinata is terrible for much the same reason that Subaki is: He's a character with Knight growths stuck in the Samurai class. His innate growths are 55% HP, 35% Str, 0% Mag, 25% Skl, 15% Spd, 45% Luck, 45% Def, and 15% Res. And in the unlikely event that someone hasn't realized why those're terrible for a Samurai: They're basically renamed Myrmidons (which, for those who still don't get it, are fast, lightly-armored swordsmen). In fact, he's so bad that I don't remember ever getting a viable Hinata without extensive abuse of stat boosters.

At least Oboro tends to turn out well, in my experience; her HP growth is a bit on the low side, but otherwise her growths are both balanced and pretty high (and her defenses mitigate said HP shortage): 30% HP, 40% Str, 20% Mag, 40% Skl, 40% Spd, 40% Luck, 40% Def, and 30% Res. Judging from her growths, Spear Fighters are kind of the "balanced, but really good because of that balance" unit of this game.

Pretty sure they both try to move adjacent to Chome, too; when I send my Avatar down, they go straight to him. I tend to prefer recruitable NPCs who go out of their way to be recruited (especially compared to the ones who go out of their way to get killed), so this is nice.

And yeah, Rinkah gets a lot of Defense (and Speed too); she doesn't get much offense, and her HP are pretty bad, unfortunately, so she doesn't quite qualify as a tank. At least her class compensates for her low base growths somewhat, though you'll probably want someone else later.

For future reference: You can push one of the shoulder buttons to jump to the next unit that hasn't moved yet. Can't recall which one, though; I think the other one changes the map's zoom?

Camel Pimp
May 17, 2008

This poster survived LPing Lunar: Dragon Song. Let's give her a hand.
I forget if it's been mentioned yet, but Azura has higher strength growth than Radiant Dawn Ike.

I have no idea why the dancer unit needed to be swole, but there we go.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

Camel Pimp posted:

I forget if it's been mentioned yet, but Azura has higher strength growth than Radiant Dawn Ike.

I have no idea why the dancer unit needed to be swole, but there we go.

Hits like a truck, extremely strong speed growth too. Has HP and defensive growths of "pretty much zero". She's the definition of glass cannon. It has some limited utility but usually you're just dancing with her... makes her good for assist attacks I guess.

fucking love Fiona Apple
Jun 19, 2013

samus comfy so what

Also she can only go up to C-Rank Lances.

I always bring her though because Dancers are the best. Why bring your 12th best unit when you can just make your best unit move again.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

loving love Fiona Apple posted:

Also she can only go up to C-Rank Lances.

Given how a high forged enhancment iron weapon is pretty much one of the best weapons you can have outside of character specific overpowered unique weapons or certain edge cases, weapon ranks are not very important in Fates, in my opinion. I hope they work out the weapon balance a bit better in the next game so the silver weapons, etc. are not pretty much useless in player hands and terrifying in NPC ones.

inthesto
May 12, 2010

Pro is an amazing name!
Reclassing Azura is both really stupid and really awesome, so I recommend that Kuvo does it

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Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

inthesto posted:

Reclassing Azura is both really stupid and really awesome, so I recommend that Kuvo does it

As evidenced by the previous video, the more tactically and strategically dubious a decision Kuvo makes, the more powerful he becomes. His Azura will be hitting off of 10% hit rates and critting all the time.

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