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Volkskrant is not left at all, it's a boomer paper. It goes something like Actually left - - - > (nrc, trouw) - > Volkskrant - > AD - - - - > telegraaf
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Mar 22, 2019 13:19
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Osmosisch posted:Volkskrant is not left at all, it's a boomer paper. Thanks for the clarification, but god do we need an actual leftist paper.
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Mar 22, 2019 13:24
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AceOfFlames posted:Now he Dutch press is blaming Baudets win on the climate accords. gently caress everything. Yeah, there recently was a poll on my local newspaper. In it, ~2/3 of the respondents expressed that they didn't want to pay for any sort of climate action. In a country where likewise, 2/3 of the landmass is below sea level. Sheeeesh. An insane mind posted:Thanks for the clarification, but god do we need an actual leftist paper. Imo De Correspondent is worth reading very often. It's appears very thoroughly researched and their articles come with lots of footnotes and direct links to source and reference material. But you need to either cough up or have someone share their stuff. Lord Stimperor fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Mar 22, 2019 |
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Mar 22, 2019 14:09
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Lord Stimperor posted:Imo De Correspondent is worth reading very often. It's appears very thoroughly researched and their articles come with lots of footnotes and direct links to source and reference material. But you need to either cough up or have someone share their stuff. Thanks I will check them out!
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Mar 22, 2019 14:22
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Pissflaps posted:Poor analysis. What happened yesterday was the exact opposite of that. Denying Teresa May her asked for extension until June, telling the UK "no more negotiations - its the deal take it or leave it", and EU leaders making more and more exasperated comments to the media is the exact opposite of deciding its time for the British to leave the EU? I think you've been drinking the Tory koolaid.
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Mar 22, 2019 14:30
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AceOfFlames posted:Time for my regular question: should I think of an escape plan from the Netherlands? Here's your escape plan from the Netherlands: buy a houseboat. That way, when the country inevitably goes the way of Atlantis, you'll automatically escape upward.
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Mar 22, 2019 14:40
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Blut posted:Denying Teresa May her asked for extension until June, telling the UK "no more negotiations - its the deal take it or leave it", and EU leaders making more and more exasperated comments to the media is the exact opposite of deciding its time for the British to leave the EU? I think you've been drinking the Tory koolaid. Oh they're clearly being hostile to May, but that doesn't necessarily extend to the UK as a whole. Or even the Tories as a whole for that matter.
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Mar 22, 2019 14:43
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RE: Dutch papers. The Telegraaf chose to collaborate with the occupying Nazis and dutifully printed their propaganda for them throughout the entire war. As a result, they were banned for 30 years after the war. A ban which was unfortunately lifted in 1949, after which they became the most popular paper in the Netherlands. Their views have been hard right (think British tabloids) for the entire post-war period. Anyone who reads the Telegraaf voluntarily is highly suspect in my book.
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Mar 22, 2019 14:43
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Blut posted:Denying Teresa May her asked for extension until June, telling the UK "no more negotiations - its the deal take it or leave it", and EU leaders making more and more exasperated comments to the media is the exact opposite of deciding its time for the British to leave the EU? I think you've been drinking the Tory koolaid. Yes. Until the EU intervened the UK was heading for a hard Brexit on March 29th. These two new dates ensure that - whether the deal passes or not next week - this doesn’t happen. The EU is helping the UK avoid a hard Brexit. This isn’t the same as helping May get her deal through Parliament. They’ve given up on that.
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Mar 22, 2019 14:56
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Private Speech posted:Oh they're clearly being hostile to May, but that doesn't necessarily extend to the UK as a whole. Or even the Tories as a whole for that matter. Opinion across the EU has hardened quite significantly towards the UK as a whole since 2016. Its not just May, even if she were to resign tomorrow a large number of Europeans, and EU policy makers, wouldn't want the UK to stay in the EU at this stage given how toxic your domestic politics are. Better to take the short term economic damage from Brexit to no longer have to deal with British negative influence within the EU for the next decade or two. Pissflaps posted:Yes. Until the EU intervened the UK was heading for a hard Brexit on March 29th. The two new dates don't ensure hard Brexit doesn't happen at all. The UK is still heading for a hard Brexit unless either May's deal is approved or something major happens in parliament next week - its now just 2 weeks later on April 12th, to give a tiny bit of emergency preparation time. I'm not sure how optimistic I would be currently about large numbers of Tory backbenchers deciding to save the day next week, given their behaviour over the last 1000 days.
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Mar 22, 2019 16:33
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Blut posted:The two new dates don't ensure hard Brexit doesn't happen at all. The UK is still heading for a hard Brexit unless either May's deal is approved or something major happens in parliament next week. Absolutely. But we’re talking about the EU’s attitude to hard Brexit - and they’re still doing everything they can to avoid it. The EU can’t unilaterally prevent it. I described your analysis as poor and nothing I’ve seen since makes me question that description, though tbf it is a complex situation.
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Mar 22, 2019 16:43
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loving belgian journalist fucks. Playing with fire in a petroleum refinery https://twitter.com/chrcallewaert/status/1109091014223060992
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Mar 22, 2019 16:56
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Lord Stimperor posted:Imo De Correspondent is worth reading very often. It's appears very thoroughly researched and their articles come with lots of footnotes and direct links to source and reference material. But you need to either cough up or have someone share their stuff. They have some good writers but the organisation as a whole is very white dudebro. I'm a member but am reconsidering. Especially Rutget Bregman is extremely irritating with his superficial just-so stories. In the meantime I really like One world and Follow the Money for leftist perspective and fact-based investigative journalism respectively.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:04
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Yeah, Follow the Money is extremely A+.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:11
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double nine posted:loving belgian journalist fucks. Playing with fire in a petroleum refinery Hey now the VRT is very often called a leftist bastion by the right so they can't support the fash. Right? I think it was in an interview with Jan Becaus just a few weeks/months ago that I heard for the very first time that someone, anyone, said that there is no real leftist bastion, and if there was a group of people with leftist sympathies that they kept it to themselves.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:27
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Osmosisch posted:They have some good writers but the organisation as a whole is very white dudebro. I'm a member but am reconsidering. Especially Rutget Bregman is extremely irritating with his superficial just-so stories. FTM seems cool thanks for that.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:57
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Re: Europe vs. hard Brexit. Merkel has said that she does not want a hard Brexit, nor wishes hardship on the British people because of it. You can think what you wish of Merkel, but she doesn't flip flop and as far as I gather, she doesn't talk bullshit (if she talks). Remember, she ruined her political legacy by allowing all refugees in, because it was the right thing to do. I am 80% certain the extension is the most generous offer to the British people to get their poo poo together without compromising the EU parliament.
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Mar 22, 2019 23:10
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Germany dropped the Dublin protocol in August 2015 and put it into force again 3 months later, in November 2015. I think the narrative of "Merkel sacrificed her legacy for the refugees" is being overblown, seeing how 3 month later they started sending people to "safe" areas again.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:08
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An insane mind posted:Thanks for the clarification, but god do we need an actual leftist paper. Technically De Socialist is published in newspaper format 
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Mar 23, 2019 00:36
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caps on caps on caps posted:Re: Europe vs. hard Brexit. Here's the thing, though: the British people will not get their poo poo together. All the extension is doing is prolonging the ripping up of the bandaid. The worst case scenario is if they somehow manage to revoke Article 50 during the extension. This will make the europhobic rhetoric go on overdrive while still keeping Europe saddled with a dead weight that'll block any and all attempts at reforming it into something that could potentially actually work.
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Mar 23, 2019 03:33
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Cat Mattress posted:Here's the thing, though: the British people will not get their poo poo together. All the extension is doing is prolonging the ripping up of the bandaid. I'm sorry but it's really loving obvious that you despise the UK and everything you say is just a weird emotional argument that the EU kicks them out and kicks them out right now. gently caress you binch, you're never getting rid of us.
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Mar 23, 2019 04:07
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Cat Mattress posted:Here's the thing, though: the British people will not get their poo poo together. All the extension is doing is prolonging the ripping up of the bandaid. The EU did not decide on this that shortsighted, even though there is a fair impression that they have no idea what thex are doing but there is indeed thought behind this. Same goes for the UK though, only that the entire premise was, well, not amazingly wise, due to referendum and stuff. However, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, Brexit is not done and over by kicking the UK out instantly, neither is it over if the UK stays in. You can't just exclude an important global player in terms of strategic, economical and political power from one day to a other, especially if it's on your doorstep. There will be more deals to be had, more arguments how it will continue and there will be talk between the UK and the EU and internally how to go on from this point. This will be a major factor for many years to come, as we need the UK just as much they need us. Blaming them for the lack of reforms is also not really fair.
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Mar 23, 2019 04:23
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Goons Are Great posted:The EU did not decide on this that shortsighted, even though there is a fair impression that they have no idea what thex are doing but there is indeed thought behind this. Regarde Aduck posted:I'm sorry but it's really loving obvious that you despise the UK and everything you say is just a weird emotional argument that the EU kicks them out and kicks them out right now. gently caress you binch, you're never getting rid of us.
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Mar 23, 2019 06:42
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Regarde Aduck posted:I'm sorry but it's really loving obvious that you despise the UK and everything you say is just a weird emotional argument that the EU kicks them out and kicks them out right now. gently caress you binch, you're never getting rid of us. He's right about one thing, and that is that in the event of a Brexit cancellation you'll see UKIP make a crazy comeback and I don't think anyone here wants to see that. At least when Britain inevitably re-applies for EU membership they'll join as a normal member state rather than have all sorts of special exemptions.
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Mar 23, 2019 09:30
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De Volkskrant is terrible poo poo but I like to hateread it. It's a mouthpiece for the PvdA. Back when Roemer was finally gaining ground in the polls they suddenly dumped a shitload of articles about Diederik Samsom and ones that discredited Roemer (when they published about the SP at all).
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Mar 23, 2019 09:44
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YF-23 posted:He's right about one thing, and that is that in the event of a Brexit cancellation you'll see UKIP make a crazy comeback and I don't think anyone here wants to see that. I kind of do, since they'll take votes from the Tories. Under our terrible voting system two parties with 25% of the vote will have many fewer MPs than one party with 50% of the vote.
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Mar 23, 2019 10:23
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Regarde Aduck posted:I'm sorry but it's really loving obvious that you despise the UK and everything you say is just a weird emotional argument that the EU kicks them out and kicks them out right now. gently caress you binch, you're never getting rid of us. The way the UK behaves in the EU is despicable, to be fair.
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Mar 23, 2019 10:53
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Not that I disagree as such, but the UK won't be an important player if it crashes out of the EU. Unless, I suppose, it starts flexing its nuclear arms. I mean, in relation to the EU itself, yes, maybe, but even with a catastrophic no-deal-brexit plus economical breakdown due to recession etc. the UK will never disappear from people's radar entirely and it will always have some role to play, simply as it's still an extremely developed nation with a strong economy (globally speaking) right in the north-western part of Europe. Even without any kind of deal, without any trade deal for a foreseeable future and basiucally no (meaningful) relation at all for a good while, the UK would for the EU be what Brazil is for the EU, only a lot closer by and with a more important role in global economy. They will without a doubt lose a lot of influence everywhere, credibility is crushed anyways by now, but the UK will always be a bigger factor for both the EU and the industrialized world than, say, Mexico. Orange Devil posted:The way the UK behaves in the EU is despicable, to be fair. That, however, is very true. It's not the only country making the EU hard to reform or even just to work with, not to say the internal struggles it causes and caused over and over again, so if this Brexit mess leads to a stronger interest in changing the system itself, that would be very much welcome. Looking at the upcoming election though, I find it questionable.
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Mar 23, 2019 12:42
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Bandying around words like 'despicable' is silly and inflammatory, though I think it's clear that Brexit or no Brexit there's not a lot of enthusiasm in the UK for ever closer integration with the EU, especially not to the point of federalisation. If that is the future of the EU I think a positive of Brexit could be the formalisation of a two-tier Europe with federalised countries at the core, and those not wishing to take part in such a project instead using Brexit as a template for some sort of enlarged EFTA/Norway+ option. At least a 'USE' should lead to the sort of fiscal transfer needed to avoid a future repeat of the problems in Greece. Economic, diplomatic and trading arrangements between the EU and the UK are going to be an important talking point for everyone for decades to come. Get used to it.
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Mar 23, 2019 13:06
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By two tier system, would that be something like some member states adopting the euro and some not doing so? That's pure science fiction.
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Mar 23, 2019 13:33
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Yes exactly that sort of thing.
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Mar 23, 2019 13:56
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I hate to say it but flapspiss is making a specific demand which would measurably and sustainably improve things compared to the status quo
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Mar 23, 2019 15:18
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Its completely understandable why the UK is not a big fan of further EU integration. The countries driving the integration are doing so because they remember having to fight wars against their neighbors every ten or so years for the last two thousand years of history, and after that being the playball of superpowers. In contrast, Brits still operate under the impression that they are a superpower, and they didn't suffer substantially from inter-European wars or invasions anyway.
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Mar 23, 2019 16:09
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Regarde Aduck posted:I'm sorry but it's really loving obvious that you despise the UK and everything you say is just a weird emotional argument that the EU kicks them out and kicks them out right now. gently caress you binch, you're never getting rid of us. The EU is horrible as it is and needs serious reform to make it more social and increase solidarity between member nations. The UK is largely responsible for the current horribleness of the EU and if it were to remain after half the population and 3/4 the politicians have been whipped into a europhobic frenzy, any hope for reform would be even more dead than it already is. We've seen that already with the euro crisis and Greek crisis. That's, after all, basically the reason Brexit happened in the first place. To prevent implosion of the eurozone, treaty changes were required, but Cameron had promised the eurosceptic wing of his party that he'd veto any and all further evolution of the EU. And so he did. Despite the UK not being concerned by the change in question, since it opted out of the euro. This caused the eurozone countries to have to work around the UK by using an intergovernmental agreement instead of a treaty change. And this pissed off the eurosceptics of the UK so much that Cameron went to beg in Bruxelles for more exemptions and opt-outs to appease them, with stuff like making EU citizens wait for three or five years before they'd be able to get welfare in the UK or putting immigration quotas and so on. And since he couldn't get the EU to poo poo on its core principles enough for them, he had to promise the Brexit referendum, with the consequences we know. And it's not a question of kicking the UK out: the UK sovereignly and democratically decided to get out all by itself. So it's just a question of not using every cheat possible to keep the UK in, against the will of half its people. Yeah, Brexit is gonna suck for the UK. But at this point it's gonna suck no matter what; a revocation of Article 50 would be as toxic as Brexit at this point. The choice is between keeping the toxicity contained to the UK or to let it poison irremediably the European project. Brexit is the EU's only change of long-term survival.
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Mar 23, 2019 19:45
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Cat Mattress posted:And it's not a question of kicking the UK out: the UK sovereignly and democratically decided to get out all by itself. So it's just a question of not using every cheat possible to keep the UK in, against the will of half its people. Cat Mattress posted:Brexit is the EU's only change of long-term survival.
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Mar 23, 2019 19:59
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Cat Mattress posted:The EU is horrible as it is and needs serious reform to make it more social and increase solidarity between member nations. Yeah the thing is, you might be right in general but from a European perspective going into an anti-UK stance is really not helpful either. Yes, the referendum was dumb and Cameron just wanted to gain political advantages by threatening to leave the EU if they don't let the UK do whatever, but it's also very clear that neither he nor most of UKIP actually wanted the brexit to happen. They played a game they didn't think they could win and won due to the really bad idea of having people voting over something so complex that a basic referendum with a yes or no choice couldn't even come close to solve anything. Then Cameron resigned, UKIP was like oh gently caress lol and this poo poo started. I fully agree on the EU being in desperate need of reforms or even a full reformation from ground up and yes, the UK was earlier and definitely is now way past the point of being any help at that and their departure is a necessity now, after everything that happened. However, they are by far not the only problem and blaming them for everything is not going to cut it, even though at least Cameron's government played a big role in it. We still have Orban doing what the gently caress is that, some Polish policies being very questionable from an EU perspective, Italy being skeptical in general with their new government, Greece being "saved" but still with a lot of people being very anti EU, not entirely sure what's happening in the Netherlands there, France having a very enthusiastic president but barely political capital to stay in power and surely not reforming it as he suggests, even states like Germany who brutally benefit from the EU and were and definitely are now one of the most important members, still being quite reluctant to build in changes or going straight with reforms, as both Merkel and her probably successor pointed out multiple times. The UK was a problematic member of the EU and now its departure may or may not be the only way going forward now, also brexit is without any question a terrible mess for everyone and their behavior in the process is not helpful either, but the UK never was the only problem and brexit certainly never was or is a solution to the underlying problems the EU as a concept had, has and most likely will have for decades to come. Goons Are Gifts fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 23, 2019 |
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Mar 23, 2019 20:11
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Osmosisch posted:Volkskrant is not left at all, it's a boomer paper. Shibawanko posted:De Volkskrant is terrible poo poo but I like to hateread it. It's a mouthpiece for the PvdA. Back when Roemer was finally gaining ground in the polls they suddenly dumped a shitload of articles about Diederik Samsom and ones that discredited Roemer (when they published about the SP at all). "Wake up, the fascists have won". But well, the former WW2 underground resistance paper Het Parool also prominently features a fascist opinion writer, so I guess that doesn't mean much.
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Mar 23, 2019 20:19
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Entropist posted:They did manage to publish this opinion piece: https://www.volkskrant.nl/columns-opinie/word-wakker-de-fascisten-hebben-gewonnen~bae90d7d/ Asha ten Broeke mostly writes American sourced toxic idpol stuff. When she says "wake up the fascists have won!" what she means is "wake up and start voting PvdA again!"
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Mar 23, 2019 20:54
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Pissflaps posted:Bandying around words like 'despicable' is silly and inflammatory, though I think it's clear that Brexit or no Brexit there's not a lot of enthusiasm in the UK for ever closer integration with the EU, especially not to the point of federalisation. If Brexit can push France and Germany closer together to form the proto-USE it would be a good start. Europe needs it in this century.
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Mar 23, 2019 21:03
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tino posted:If Brexit can push France and Germany closer together to form the proto-USE it would be a good start. Have you taken a look at the french people's reaction to their EU lackey government's austerity measures recently.
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Mar 23, 2019 21:14
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