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30.5 Days posted:It's like saying "oh empire isn't an inherent part of british identity, think of the northumbrians!" why does no one think of the northumbrians
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Mar 22, 2019 23:59
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Grape posted:Got some bad news about Poland, Hungary and Italy. Yeah you gonna give me some hatecrime stats? Becuase I have bad news, your president is a Nazi.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:00
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some sort of fish posted:well yes we routinely throw bananas at black athletes while making monkey noises, but the historical context in which i shout "ook ook go back to africa" differs greatly from america in that I mean it is BAD, but it comes from a benevolent paternalistic racism of trying to lift them up from their lot. Like maybe they were hungry, and now they will have bananas.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:00
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Mackers posted:Yeah you gonna give me some hatecrime stats? Becuase I have bad news, your president is a Nazi. honestly, when it comes to fascism it is very hard to beat europe, both presently and historically pick your battles, mate
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Mar 23, 2019 00:01
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V. Illych L. posted:honestly, when it comes to fascism it is very hard to beat europe, both presently and historically Ok I checked an America is still Nazi central of the Earth.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:03
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i mean people have tried, and made spectacular goes at it, but once again old world sophistication and apparently milleniae-long national identities proved to be too much for the upstart peoples of the world
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Mar 23, 2019 00:04
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V. Illych L. posted:[the particular hatred against roma and jews is, in large part, founded on their refusal to assimilate. gently caress right off.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:06
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V. Illych L. posted:obviously the swedes are subhuman scum, but the chinese are all right imo The fact that you dudes just constantly talk like Europe ends at the old Iron Curtain is practically some kind of bizarre racism in of itself. If only subconsciously, like there's Europe, everyone knows what we mean by Europe. And then there's all THOSE crummy places wink wink.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:07
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Mackers posted:Yeah you gonna give me some hatecrime stats? Becuase I have bad news, your president is a Nazi. Yeah. So are Orban, the PiS and that Italian dude?
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Mar 23, 2019 00:08
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America, at least 40% of whom are avowed Nazis and Qanon followers "Europe is racist"
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Mar 23, 2019 00:08
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Grape posted:The fact that you dudes just constantly talk like Europe ends at the old Iron Curtain is practically some kind of bizarre racism in of itself. i have no idea what you're getting at here
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Mar 23, 2019 00:08
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah to be more precise what i'm talking about when i'm talking about the modern conception of race is the division of humanity into discrete groups based on especially phrenological studies in the late eighteenth century. more nebulous concepts obviously exist and as late as the interwar period you have people talking about "race" and "people" more or less interchangably - i'd argue, however, that the enlightenment pseudoscience approach is basically essential to modern racial terminology as it allows you to be more rigorous in exactly who counts as subhuman i dunno I think it is easy to over-emphasize the importance of "scientific racism" to race as a social institution. It was mostly just a dishonest attempt to gussy up existing social arrangements and emotional feelings with a thin veneer of academic rigor. This is obvious if we look at the modern day where those ideas are broadly discredited, but race still exists. In practice no colonial society ever applied their racial classification scheme rigorously, it was always a contradictory and confusing mess full of customary exceptions that could sometimes be ignored if inconvenient. On the ground race and ethnicity are overlapping subcategories within the broader concept of ethnic identity. In practice group identies, whether called Nations, Races, tribes, or something else, are more-or-less arbitrarily defined on the fly by their members and no academic definitions can ever consistently match actual real world practice. The fluidity of these conceptual classes is obvious if we consider modern movements like White Nationalism, in which race and nation are explicitly equated. V. Illych L. posted:i have no idea what you're getting at here I think you've offended his sense of National Honour.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:09
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Oh heck I'll go as far as to say the entire modern concept of Europe is racist, arbitrarily carving out the western corners of Asia into it's own continent, and largely defining that around Christianity and people who "look like us". And also historically defining that loosely enough to exclude various Eastern European states when convenient. Even sometimes Southern European.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:10
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ITT: ostensible marxists are shocked to discover that if the foundation of your society's wealth is racism, then the foundation of your society might, also, be racism
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Mar 23, 2019 00:10
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Grape posted:Oh heck I'll go as far as to say the entire modern concept of Europe is racist, arbitrarily carving out the western corners of Asia into it's own continent, and largely defining that around Christianity and people who "look like us". yeah the 1st/2nd world divide influences modern preconceptions who knew that'd be a thing
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Mar 23, 2019 00:11
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Raskolnikov38 posted:why does no one think of the northumbrians Bunch of fence sitters. All up there in the north but not Scottish, but say they're their own thing separate from the rest of the English. Make up your minds.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:11
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Spangly A posted:yeah the 1st/2nd world divide influences modern preconceptions who knew that'd be a thing Not the people subconsciously letting it leak into their comments constantly.  Oh and it drat sure predates that.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:12
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Grape posted:Oh heck I'll go as far as to say the entire modern concept of Europe is racist, The "modern concept of europe" was to stop us warring with each other and it worked.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:15
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Mackers posted:The "modern concept of europe" was to stop us warring with each other and it worked. Anddddd check another mark in the "Eastern Europe doesn't really count" category.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:16
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Squalid posted:i dunno I think it is easy to over-emphasize the importance of "scientific racism" to race as a social institution. It was mostly just a dishonest attempt to gussy up existing social arrangements and emotional feelings with a thin veneer of academic rigor. This is obvious if we look at the modern day where those ideas are broadly discredited, but race still exists. In practice no colonial society ever applied their racial classification scheme rigorously, it was always a contradictory and confusing mess full of customary exceptions that could sometimes be ignored if inconvenient. ok sure, but i do believe that the formalisation of a pseudoscientific ideology helped codify and legitimise racial theory (to the extent that i just automatically used the word 'theory' here) at an important juncture, especially with regards to the american republican project - terms like "caucasian" remain very important in contemporary american racial discourse, for instance scientific legitimacy matters a lot, even if the actual implemenation of the ideology is much messier - similar to how something can be technically illegal but inconsistently enforced. the state is legitimising a certain view, even if it's not really coherently realising it i accept that this might be a bit of a historical/discoursal accident, and i'm honestly not alert enough to really get into the meat of this discussion atm, but since i was talking primarily about the difference of racial discourse between america and most of europe i feel it's relevant
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Mar 23, 2019 00:17
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Which countries are the not racist ones?
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Mar 23, 2019 00:18
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Grape posted:Anddddd check another mark in the "Eastern Europe doesn't really count" category. what the gently caress are you talking about? We didnt want nuclear War with Russia so we're racist? I mean I understand that "people over there" being murdered is a price americans are happy with paying. We are human.
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Mar 23, 2019 00:18
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Rozzbot posted:Which countries are the not racist ones? uhhhh, was the sealand guy ever revealed to be racist
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Mar 23, 2019 00:19
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Rozzbot posted:Which countries are the not racist ones? none, op only the glorious international soviet state of our hearts remains pure
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Mar 23, 2019 00:19
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lets stop this racism derail please. both of our dumb countries are racist and stupid
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Mar 23, 2019 00:29
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Both should be destroyed
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Mar 23, 2019 00:29
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V. Illych L. posted:ok sure, but i do believe that the formalisation of a pseudoscientific ideology helped codify and legitimise racial theory (to the extent that i just automatically used the word 'theory' here) at an important juncture, especially with regards to the american republican project - terms like "caucasian" remain very important in contemporary american racial discourse, for instance Yeah it was definitely important, but I think it's important to understanding what race is to understand the pseudoscience post-dates race as an identity. Its interesting to see these intellectual ideas led to different cultural practices in the New World. While in America scientific racism produced an obsession with preventing race mixing and maintaining strict delineations and definitions of the races, In Latin America it produced the exact opposite: a preoccupation with encouraging race mixing. The most extreme manifestation of this probably came in Paraguay in 1821 when President Francia made it illegal for anyone of European ancestry to marry another European. The result is a dramatic difference in how race was ethnicized in the United States and Latin America, even if many of the underlying assumptions about race were shared across these regions. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 23, 2019 00:32
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Mackers posted:America, at least 40% of whom are avowed Nazis and Qanon followers Where the heck you getting that 40% number from? That would be immense if true. Rozzbot posted:Which countries are the not racist ones? Depends how we define 'not racist' tbh. Like, I think how many refugees a country takes probably correlates with how racist the populace are, but that would mean Turkey is the least racist country on earth and that's obviously untrue. But on measure I genuinely think the least racist country on earth is Guyana, the history is weird but facts on the ground in 2019 they are very sound. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 23, 2019 00:37
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Mackers posted:America, at least 40% of whom are avowed Nazis and Qanon followers Takes one to know one. 
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Mar 23, 2019 00:43
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which race is the most racist - the greatest thread in the history of forums, locked by a moderator after 12,239 pages of heated debate,
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Mar 23, 2019 01:00
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:lets stop this racism derail please. both of our dumb countries are racist and stupid it's true and bitching at each other is the dumbest poo poo. Hang the billionaires and we can bitch forever.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:03
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can we get back to the brexit please. i want to hear more stories of wasted money on "out by 29th march" bets
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Mar 23, 2019 01:11
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JFC what happened to this thread So May definitely isn't getting that deal passed, right? How the gently caress is she still PM?
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Mar 23, 2019 01:25
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shirts and skins posted:JFC what happened to this thread because not even an insane person would want to be PM right now
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Mar 23, 2019 01:28
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Martout posted:because not even an insane person would want to be PM right now I'll take it my great great grandpappy was Scottish, is that enough to be eligible
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Mar 23, 2019 01:45
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V. Illych L. posted:i'm not saying it's worse, i'm saying it's institutional in a way it isn't/hasn't been in on the european continent. by all means, we've had obvious and hideous bouts of racism (such as, you know, WW2 and the loving holocaust), but the nuremberg laws had to be invented by a bunch of evil lawyers precisely because concepts of miscegenation and hangups re: racial integration in that way were, for all our callousness, just not that fundamental to us The Nuremberg laws were explicitly based on existing American laws
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Mar 23, 2019 01:51
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Brexit will be putting the cunts back in Scunthorpe: Uncertainty about Brexit is the biggest single problem facing UK businesses right now. However, for some sectors that uncertainty is proving to be a real benefit. The British tourism industry has seen a surge in business so far this year. Ashbourne Heights Holiday Park in Derbyshire’s Peak District has seen its bookings rise by over 60%. Brexit fears boost British tourism http://flip.it/xu4kht
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Mar 23, 2019 01:55
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lol even in this thread c h a o s r e i g n s
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Mar 23, 2019 02:13
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imo the modern conception of race dates back to the reconquista not the trans-atlantic slave trade so it predates and is basically consubstantial with the modern state though not with the various nations of europe or the world afaict
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Mar 23, 2019 02:27
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:imo the modern conception of race dates back to the reconquista not the trans-atlantic slave trade so it predates and is basically consubstantial with the modern state though not with the various nations of europe or the world afaict nerd
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Mar 23, 2019 02:29
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