Hixson posted:

I haven't posted any of my stuff in here in a while. Heres some Night Lords i did:

Fashionable Jorts posted:

I believe so. They had purged the non-believers long before the heresy had begun, so at the beginning it was 100% traitor.

Hustlin Floh posted:

There's a loyalist Word Bearer sniper in several of the novels.

Hustlin Floh posted:

There's a loyalist Word Bearer sniper in several of the novels.

An Open Letter to FW posted:

Welcome fellow Heresy browsers. It is no secret that Malevolence has been sent out to all those who pre-ordered it. Likewise, it's no secret that the rules of the units contained within have also leaked out to the public. Furthermore, we had the Warhammer Community website leak the (somewhat inaccurate) rules for Sanguinius. After 5 years I am ecstatic to finally have a complete legion army list, and I look forward to ordering my own copy of the book (if it ever gets released LOL). But there are two units which I want to discuss in this open letter. The FW design team have been very open with us and expressed a desire to communicate with us the community concerning the balance of the game, so with that, let's jump into two units which I think need to be tweaked. I will be making the rounds with this post, and probably emailing it to FW .

Crimson Paladins

When we first saw these models previewed I was so excited. FW really subverted my expectations in a good way by giving us a terminator unit. While 3/4 of our special units are jump infantry, I never expected them to give us a solid-boots-on-the-ground type of special unit, and the Paladins provide. From glimpses I've seen of the lore write up they look pretty cool, all the First Sphere stuff does. However, in the game itself, they seem confused. With their unit size capped at 5 models, and their rule which rewards them with FNP for being outnumbered and doubly outnumbered, you would think that this unit was designed for doing one of two things: dealing with swarms of chaff units or absorbing charges from Death Stars. When you look at this unit, though, they seem confused, and unable to do either of these things very well.

Their low model count and lack of ability to sweep makes it difficult for them to deal with large amounts of enemies. There's a very low chance that the paladins will kill all of them, and for every model they lose, their ability to fight and to tank diminishes significantly. Every paladin that falls is felt enormously, thanks to their high initial buy in. So you might think, why not have them fight enemy elite units.

The other potential use the paladins have is as an anvil to stop an enemy's hammer unit: things like Justaerin, Deathshroud, Firedrakes, Gal Vorbak, etc. Against these units there will be less of a likelihood of getting the more than doubly outnumbered FNP bonus, but each save will matter more as the enemy unit is smaller and dishing out less attacks. However, once again the paladins run into the same problem: their lack of numbers. Another problem also rears its head, which is their average weapon skill of 4. A true enemy death star will likely overwhelm the paladins purely through sheer weight of attacks which typically are made at WS5. A squad of Fire drakes for example will eat up paladins in a couple rounds of combat without the charge and likely take little damage thanks to their 3++ and 2 wounds, same could be said for Justaerin or Gal Vorkak.

They also have deep strike, which is random, but welcome I suppose. They could function as a back line harassment unit, or the bodyguard of jump pack character. But they themselves are slow, making them easy for the enemy to avoid or deal with, and would slow down the character they are supposed to safeguard. They also cannot score, so deep striking onto an objective, and holding it, which seems to align with their lore of protecting the Angel's chosen spaces, is out of the question.

What all of this translates into is a lacklustre unit. Not useless, like other units have been (phalanx warders, medusan immortals, breachers, assault marines, or Justaerin, rather ironically), but unnecessarily confused and falling short of being a great idea in execution. I have the following suggestions on how to improve them.

If they are intended for holding up large squads of lesser foes:

-simply give them rampage, this will mitigate the losses suffered by the enemy's flood of attacks, and give them some potential killing power against them, rather than being held up or even destroyed by some marauding night lords assault marines, or world eater inductii.

If they are meant as an anvil for stopping enemy Death Stars, one or any combination of these could help:

-lift the squad restriction and allow them to go up to 10 man and the ability to buy a Spartan, giving them the staying power needed to last in combat against targets that actually matter, almost like a squad of terminator phalanx warders, who, with the beta rules, can stop pretty much any enemy unit dead in it's tracks.

-give them 2 wounds. This way they can actually take advantage of their amazing FNP and -1S ability synergy, effectively doubling their numbers, and allowing them to shrug off the very common S8 AP2 that these death star units pack.

In any case one thing that should change about them is their high initial buy in cost. A unit intended to be small should not have to pay such a large price. As it stands, when you buy a squad of Paladins you are essentially paying for an extra squad member. Whereas other units see this initial cost spread out over an additional 5 models or more, Paladins see no such benefit, as the squad can only grow two members larger from its initial size. If the squad cap is lifted to 10 this obviously isn't an issue anymore.

Paladins seem very just "okay," which is fine, I suppose. It might be a little much to expect 4/4 special units to be home runs. I, and likewise many others, don't have very strong feelings about them because they are new additions to the legion, not grounded in decades of lore. However, the subject of the next discussion is something I and many other feel very strongly about for the exact opposite reasons.

Sanguinius

We already know that the FW design team wanted to avoid another case of Inferno, with overpowered units that make everyone unhappy to play against, which neccessitate nerfs that also piss off the people who collect and play with these models. With Sanguinius this design can be seen clearly.

When armed with the Blade Encarmine, mathematically speaking, Sanguinius will lose to:

Horus, Russ, Angron, Magnus, Lorgar Transfigured, Fulgrim with the Fireblade, Ferrus Manus; and will draw against Guilliman and Perturabo

When armed with the Spear of Telesto he losses to:

All the names mentioned above, and additionally Vulkan, Khan; and pulls a draw against Corax.

This is without mentioning perhaps the biggest offender of all: Sanguinius loses to Ka'Bandah. Many will say that is accurate, as Sanguinius "lost" against the Bloodthirster the first time they fought. But this is a common misconception. Sanguinius had beaten the Bloodthirster. He had him on the ground and was about to strike the final blow when Ka'Bandah revealed Horus' treachery to him, which shocked and saddened the Angel to the point that he let down his guard and allowed the daemon to strike him with his whip and break his legs, winning only through dishonorable tactics. But if this wasn't enough, hours later Sanguinius faced him again, subdued Ka'Bandah with his bare hands, de-winged him, and threw him back into the warp, while his legs were still broken. Furthermore, we all know Sanguinius beat Ka'Bandah on Terra anyway.

Given the long list of Primarchs and sworn daemon enemies who can best him, does this sound like the Primarch that "Horus hated and feared more than any of his brothers, and wove many strategies to ensnare of slay him?" (Blood Angels 5th and 8th edition codices). For those that don't hold Black Library feats in high regard, we all know that it has been apocryphal lore for decades that Sanguinius was one of the more powerful Primarchs, to the point where Horus Lupercal himself admitted that he should have been the Warmaster, not somebody who lingers at the middle of the pack and gets beat up on by even his nerd brother Perturabo. The FW Black Book series has only given us one feat of strength from Sanguinius so far and it's pretty dang substantial:

"Against this massing of force , the Imperial assault first faltered and was checked, as even the Titans of the Legio Fureans landing with the second wave were swiftly torn apart by the Witch-Idol and its kinsmen, though it is said that the Angel Sanguinius destroyed one of their number himself, tearing open its head with his bare hands and sending it crashing to destruction before being struck a grievous blow by the Warlock's psi-lance from which none other would have survived." (Inferno pg. 134)

With all of this said, do I want Sanguinius to be able to kill a titan? No. Does he need to survive a Destroyer Deathblow shot? No. Does he need to rise beyond the combat prowess of D slangin Magnus the Red? No. But does Sanguinius need to be more powerful, specifically in combat duels? Yes. This balance is a lot trickier than the Crimson Paladins, and it is why I am thankful that we have beta rules now, rather than waiting years for updates army list books and such. One thing idea I thought of is giving one of his weapons deathfire.

This sounds extreme, and I think it is rather. Perhaps death fire on a roll to wound of 5+ or something. But deathfire wouldn't make him any better and killing normal enemies, but would make all the difference against Primarch adversaries, perhaps making him the best of them all (and let's be real here, Sanguinius was at least third place amongst his brothers, bested perhaps by Russ, Angron, or Horus). Another idea could be to play up his psychic abilities.

Perhaps giving Sanguinius some sort of offensive reroll capability, to represent his prescience. These rerolls might give him the edge to eek out a victory against some of the tougher cookies. Another thing to grapple with is the imbalance of his weapon loadouts.

The Spear of Telesto is far too dependent on the charge to do damage. A poor round or hard target, or god forbid Sanguinius doesn't get the charge, could see the combat go south. Just imagine Sanguinius and co. charging, for sake of example, Fulgrim. The Emperor's Children player could be crafty, and simply accept Sanguinius' challenge with the squad sergeant, forcing the Angel to vent his wrath on one poor sod, leaving the Primarch of the IIIrd safe from Sanguinius' large first round charge damage potential, and ensuring victory, There's even a good chance that Sanguinius kills the unlucky sergeant with his hammer of wrath attack, and doesn't get to use the rest of his attacks because the challenge is over. A way to remedy this would be to give Sanguinius Hit & Run.

This I admit is also a rather strong buff, but would be in keeping with a Blood Angels tradition (Commander Dante was an excellent choice for this ability), and is an ability Sanguinius can already attain with the Angel's Wrath rite of war, and might be worth allowing him to have without trapping him into a certain build and also make the Spear a more consistent weapon.

At the very least, Sanguinius needs a points reduction. He is only 15 points less than Horus, and has worse combat abilities, and does far less for his army. He is also 30 points more than Leman Russ, who has similar army bufffing potential, but can kill Sanguinius.

These ideas might seem too powerful or offend some reader's sensibilities, but I just wanted to get the conversation going, and bring it to the FW design team's attention to let them know that there are people out here who think things need a little tweak.

Safety Factor posted:

TTerrible posted:

This hobby really is about the people you hate along the way.

Safety Factor posted:

DJ Dizzy posted:

Wut? There's the blind WB in unremembered empire, but the sniper is a RG.

BULBASAUR posted:

TTerrible posted:

Oh baby, what is you doing

panascope posted:

I can understand losing to Crows because, much like Whose Line Is It Anyways, the rules are made up and the points don’t matter.

BULBASAUR posted:

Sounds like looser talk to me

panascope posted:

You refuse to play me bitch

TTerrible posted:

Didn’t keep track at LVO. Who actually has the most pins?

TTerrible posted:

Didn’t keep track at LVO. Who actually has the most pins?

panascope posted:

I’ve got 10, otherwise known as The Most.

TTerrible posted:

Unless anyone can post a picture of more than 10 badges I think we have an entirely predictable sweep from the warmaster here