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Who do you want to be the 2020 Democratic Nominee? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe "the liberal who fights busing" Biden |
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27 | 1.40% |
| Bernie "please don't die" Sanders |
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1017 | 52.69% |
| Cory "charter schools" Booker |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Kirsten "wall street" Gillibrand |
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24 | 1.24% |
| Kamala "truancy queen" Harris |
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59 | 3.06% |
| Julian "who?" Castro |
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7 | 0.36% |
| Tulsi "gay panic" Gabbard |
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25 | 1.30% |
| Michael "crimes crimes crimes" Avenatti |
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22 | 1.14% |
| Sherrod "discount bernie" Brown |
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21 | 1.09% |
| Amy "horrible boss" Klobuchar |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Tammy "stands for america" Duckworth |
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48 | 2.49% |
| Beto "whataburger" O'Rourke |
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32 | 1.66% |
| Elizabeth "instagram beer" Warren |
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284 | 14.72% |
| Tom "impeach please" Steyer |
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4 | 0.21% |
| Michael "soda is the devil" Bloomberg |
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9 | 0.47% |
| Joseph Stalin |
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287 | 14.87% |
| Howard "coffee republican" Schultz |
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10 | 0.52% |
Jay "nobody cares about climate change  " Inslee |
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13 | 0.67% |
| Pete "gently caress the homeless" Butt Man |
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17 | 0.88% |
| Total: | 1930 votes | ||
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Also Republicans know this and specifically attack literally everything Democrats do as hard as they possibly can, and the Democrat response is to desperately consider 'how can we please these people?' harder than they do for literally everyone else including their own voters "Make Republicans not attack us" is a stupid impossible nonsense goal, but "how do we make Republicans' attacks ineffective with voters" is standard political messaging.
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Mar 24, 2019 01:47
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Mellow Seas posted:Yes, the extra 9% payroll tax that appears on peoples' paychecks = "free", and they won't consider that a betrayal at all. Sure. Fine. Okay. Whatever. The phrase I would like to see popularized is "free at point of service." That basically gets the point across without opening yourself up to "well, actually..." nonsense. edit: I mean, you complained about 'free at point of use" being too wordy, but what the gently caress do you even want then? You can't be accurate about it without using more than a word or two, and it's important to make it clear to people that using healthcare won't cost them extra money under something like MfA.
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Mar 24, 2019 01:47
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^^^^ This was in the context of a discussion of "should we use 'free healthcare', or 'universal healthcare', or whatever" and "what is the preferred alternative to the obvious bullshit of 'accessible' and 'affordable' healthcare." It was too wordy for a bumper sticker, but it would fit great in a stump speech. I thought this at the time, once I reread it, but it didn't seem relevant enough to warrant editing the post. Maybe it would've saved me a lot of trouble to do so... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ytlaya posted:The phrase I would like to see popularized is "free at point of service." That basically gets the point across without opening yourself up to "well, actually..." nonsense. I suggested that phrase as a bad alternative, but I meant that in the context "the adjective you put in front of the word 'healthcare'". I actually agree that it's a phrase supporters of M4A should be using a lot. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Mar 24, 2019 |
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Mar 24, 2019 01:49
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https://twitter.com/merica/status/1109587182010941446?s=19 I wish I could have this much faith in rural Americans, but most of them aren't "economically anxious", they're just racist. On the other hand, radical proposals to fundamentally change the economy and way the government works may bring out new voters who would have otherwise sat the election out.
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Mar 24, 2019 01:55
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If Butt can win a house or senate seat in Indiana I'll buy into his thesis.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:05
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Pulcinella di Bund posted:to the right of Warren(who is very bad) and hawkish tendencies, is a disaster. put him and beto and all of them in the debates so we can see how awful their policies really are. Third most left wing in a field of 20, young and charismatic, it's not hard to see why he would have fans, even if you think he doesn't go nearly far enough.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:14
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MrFlibble posted:Help, Help, i'm being repressed! Kinda a bad example given that the peasant was Not Wrong.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:21
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so with the revelation that the mueller report was a gigantic wet fart, does anyone care at all anymore about kamala harris' prosecution credentials as a positive? i remember some people saying she'd be good for putting trump in jail, but now it looks like that's not gonna be a thing
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Mar 24, 2019 02:25
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Seems a bit presumptuous, no? As to my knowledge the only person who's seen it outside of the investigation are people at the justice department and some people at the White House. Going to wait and count my chickens when they hatch.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:30
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Condiv posted:so with the revelation that the mueller report was a gigantic wet fart, does anyone care at all anymore about kamala harris' prosecution credentials as a positive? i remember some people saying she'd be good for putting trump in jail, but now it looks like that's not gonna be a thing There has been no such revelation so far, and even if there were there remain literally a dozen other investigations into the Trump administration.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:34
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swampland posted:Do you actually not get how the phrase "access to affordable health care" is used politically or are you purposefully misunderstanding this thing people have clearly explained to you? There's no such thing as affordable health care. There's free health care and there's gun to your head healthcare.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:37
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Charlz Guybon posted:There has been no such revelation so far, and even if there were there remain literally a dozen other investigations into the Trump administration. The Kingfish posted:Kinda a bad example given that the peasant was Not Wrong. 
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Mar 24, 2019 02:38
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Mellow Seas posted:Yeah, why do I keep hearing stuff like this? As far as I know nothing about the contents of the report have been made public. Are people just taking "Mueller report done, no screaming 72 point headlines about the piss tape" as meaning it's a dud? Or have I missed some substantive reporting? no further indictments
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Mar 24, 2019 02:38
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bowser posted:https://twitter.com/merica/status/1109587182010941446?s=19 Courting Republicans is counter productive. Trying to energize non-voters is necessary. And might even win you some Republicans as a side benefit.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:39
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Charlz Guybon posted:There has been no such revelation so far, and even if there were there remain literally a dozen other investigations into the Trump administration. If, as it seems, the Russia thing has fizzled out, then Democrats can't just pivot to attacking Trump for one of his many other crimes. Because all that does is play right into Trump's narrative that the whole thing was a witch hunt.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:42
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Gripweed posted:If, as it seems, the Russia thing has fizzled out, then Democrats can't just pivot to attacking Trump for one of his many other crimes. Because all that does is play right into Trump's narrative that the whole thing was a witch hunt. thankfully, forward thinking candidates like bernie were building voter enthusiasm with policies that improve their lives instead of relying on the outcome of an FBI investigation to make the case for their election
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Mar 24, 2019 02:46
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bowser posted:https://twitter.com/merica/status/1109587182010941446?s=19 Large swaths of the population, on both sides, are actually non-ideological and vote based on both habit and group identity. It's why it took so long for the South to complete it's turn from Democratic to Republican. In a similar vein, there is a decent argument that if you could just get people to listen to your ideas they'd agree with you even if they've been voting Republican for decades. Basically wake people up and get them to stop voting against their interests. These issues are exasperated by the educational and residential segregation that permeates our society. An issue exacerbated in rural areas with less pressure to interact with different groups. Most people, mistakenly, hate politics and want to think about it as little as possible. Which is actually a large part of Donny's polling issue. The big orange idiot is forcing everyone to think about politics all the time. Polarization pisses so many people off because it makes them have to talk about poo poo they don't know about, but they interact with politics like team sports so they'll argue that they're "side" is right regardless. Mayor Pete is right in many senses, but the problem is that you need either a few intensely charismatic individuals or political realignments in order to actually affect political demographic change. Otherwise you simply wait on the demographic churn of the populace to eventually line up with your political agenda and hope things last long enough for that to enable you to enact meaningful change. Remember that at the turn of the last century it was many or the rural states where Progreswivism was at it's strongest. Theoretically Bernie could pull off a widespread shift due to his economic agenda being inclusively popular. Especially when contrasted against Donny. However that's a tall as gently caress order. Our more likely course is to continue to limp along, waiting for the kids to save our asses. The two issues with that being our limited timetable when it comes to climate change, and the issue that the current demographic shift is going to push out the more liberal "Greatest" and Silent generations before it makes a significant enough dent in the Boomers. Gyges fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Mar 24, 2019 |
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Mar 24, 2019 02:52
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Condiv posted:no further indictments The standing policy of the DOJ is that Presidents can't be indicted. Not saying that the Muller Report is 500 pages of all the crimes he really wished he could charge Donny with, but this isn't a truly meaningful issue. We need to wait until the thing is actually released, digested, and understood. Which is completely ignoring the shitload of other, non-Muller, investigations and lawsuits currently dogging this administration. It is very disappointing that none of the idiot kids got woken up by a FBI Swat team though.
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Mar 24, 2019 02:57
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Condiv posted:thankfully, forward thinking candidates like bernie were building voter enthusiasm with policies that improve their lives instead of relying on the outcome of an FBI investigation to make the case for their election That's why he's the best chance the Democrats have to win. But this Russia stuff is still gonna be a big blow to the credibility of the Democratic party as a whole Gyges posted:Which is completely ignoring the shitload of other, non-Muller, investigations and lawsuits currently dogging this administration. You can't spend two years accusing the President of being a Russian spy and then when that ends up being nothing just effortlessly pivot to "OK but look at this shady stuff he did with his charity."
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Mar 24, 2019 03:02
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Gyges posted:Large swaths of the population, on both sides, are actually non-ideological and vote based on both habit and group identity. It's why it took so long for the South to complete it's turn from Democratic to Republican. In a similar vein, there is a decent argument that if you could just get people to listen to your ideas they'd agree with you even if they've been voting Republican for decades. Basically wake people up and get them to stop voting against their interests. These issues are exasperated by the educational and residential segregation that permeates our society. An issue exacerbated in rural areas with less pressure to interact with different groups. What you are looking for is class consciousness
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Mar 24, 2019 03:02
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JFC people. The report was submitted a scant 29 hours ago(and late on a Friday afternoon at that), and it's a few hundred + pages long. It's a little early to be making any final conclusions, one way or another.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:02
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Condiv posted:so with the revelation that the mueller report was a gigantic wet fart, does anyone care at all anymore about kamala harris' prosecution credentials as a positive? i remember some people saying she'd be good for putting trump in jail, but now it looks like that's not gonna be a thing who the gently caress would vote for somebody because they promised to lock somebody up ...oh wait
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Mar 24, 2019 03:06
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Brave New World posted:JFC people. The report was submitted a scant 29 hours ago(and late on a Friday afternoon at that), and it's a few hundred + pages long. It's a little early to be making any final conclusions, one way or another. But what if my pre-drawn conclusion proves me right and this is my only window to take a victory lap before there's actual results? Did you think of that smart guy?
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Mar 24, 2019 03:06
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bowser posted:https://twitter.com/merica/status/1109587182010941446?s=19 West Virginia was a bastion of pro-labor and pro-union politics for nearly a century and some of the most violent repression of workers organizing were in the South. The reason republicans win elections is not because they've got the unanimous support of rural america but because their niche coalition of religious extremism and wealthy local business owners dominate local politics and democrats have either chosen to refuse to compete in those areas, or just sent a politician that was a carbon copy of the republican but 'slightly less so'
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Mar 24, 2019 03:11
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Why would any of you think the FBI would challenge a sitting administration? The goal of the FBI is to maintain the american government by any means necessary lol. The FBI has killed people to do it. Interfered in elections.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:12
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Gripweed posted:If, as it seems, the Russia thing has fizzled out, then Democrats can't just pivot to attacking Trump for one of his many other crimes. Because all that does is play right into Trump's narrative that the whole thing was a witch hunt. This is self defeatist bullshit.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:12
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Gripweed posted:If, as it seems, the Russia thing has fizzled out, then Democrats can't just pivot to attacking Trump for one of his many other crimes. Because all that does is play right into Trump's narrative that the whole thing was a witch hunt. It doesn't help much that Pelosi has more or less said that all that stuff isn't worth impeaching him over. One of the dumbest parts of waiting for Mueller to think about impeachment was that the DOJ is under the president. So basically you are telling Presidents that if they are smart they will make sure that those agencies understand they are not to do anything against the President and then Congress is unable to do their constitutional duty. Pelosi trying to walk this tightrope where she acts like the multitudes of stuff Trump has done isn't worth her time to deal with and throwing responsibility off to the Mueller investigation to hand her a warrant is incredibly dangerous to the separation of powers as well as defacto admitting that the President has no limitations. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Mar 24, 2019 |
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Mar 24, 2019 03:13
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Gyges posted:Theoretically Bernie could pull off a widespread shift due to his economic agenda being inclusively popular. Especially when contrasted against Donny. However that's a tall as gently caress order. Our more likely course is to continue to limp along, waiting for the kids to save our asses. The two issues with that being our limited timetable when it comes to climate change, and the issue that the current demographic shift is going to push out the more liberal "Greatest" and Silent generations before it makes a significant enough dent in the Boomers. Silent's are way more conservative than the Boomers. They're the ones who elected Trump. They voted him by like twenty plus points, while the boomers were only for Trump by the low single digits.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:15
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Mellow Seas posted:"Make Republicans not attack us" is a stupid impossible nonsense goal, but "how do we make Republicans' attacks ineffective with voters" is standard political messaging. Republicans are fascist, what you don't realize is that we're actually trying to stamp out the liberal pablum that you keep peddling.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:25
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Charlz Guybon posted:Silent's are way more conservative than the Boomers. They're the ones who elected Trump. They voted him by like twenty plus points, while the boomers were only for Trump by the low single digits. If I remember correctly the Silent Generation split politically similar to Gen X, only flipped so the older members were more likely to be Democrats and the younger members were more likely to be Republicans. So, I guess, bring on the demographic change.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:29
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Charlz Guybon posted:This is self defeatist bullshit. The Democrats have spent the past two years accusing Trump of being a Russian spy. The entire time, Trump has been saying "no collusion, no collusion" and calling it a witch hunt. If the Mueller report really says there's not enough evidence of collusion, that' it, Trump has won the argument. And trying to pivot to some other investigation would just make it look like he was right about it being a witch hunt. The Democrats hosed up by putting all of their eggs in Mueller's basket. But that doesn't mean they can't successfully attack Trump. What it means is that the attacks can't be legalistic. They can't attack Trump on being a criminal and demand another two year investigation that may or may not turn something up. That's over, that's dead. If the Democrats want to create a successful attack message against Trump, it has to be moral. They have to attack him on the concentration camps, and the trans ban, and the Muslim ban, and the white supremacy in all it's facets. They have to attack him on the suffering that has happened under his watch, the opioid epidemic and the people left homeless by natural disasters and the fact that everyone is one missed paycheck away from disaster. They have to attack him on global warming and war and inequality. That is what could still work.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:29
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Democrats can still accuse any leftists or dissenters of being russian spies so maybe its a wash for ya'll
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Mar 24, 2019 03:31
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Gripweed posted:The Democrats have spent the past two years accusing Trump of being a Russian spy. The entire time, Trump has been saying "no collusion, no collusion" and calling it a witch hunt. If the Mueller report really says there's not enough evidence of collusion, that' it, Trump has won the argument. And trying to pivot to some other investigation would just make it look like he was right about it being a witch hunt. That's not how witch hunts or legitimate investigations work.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:34
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Gripweed posted:The Democrats have spent the past two years accusing Trump of being a Russian spy. The entire time, Trump has been saying "no collusion, no collusion" and calling it a witch hunt. If the Mueller report really says there's not enough evidence of collusion, that' it, Trump has won the argument. And trying to pivot to some other investigation would just make it look like he was right about it being a witch hunt. The even more cynical, correct read is that Democrats tooted the Trump snake charming whistle to keep the braying asses distracted from impending ecological collapse and the continued disintegration of polite society, all for a couple grand in campaign contributions and the nebulous prospect of a cushy think tank job in a few years.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:36
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Radish posted:It doesn't help much that Pelosi has more or less said that all that stuff isn't worth impeaching him over. Here's the whole quote quote:There have been increasing calls, including from some of your members, for impeachment of the president. This isn't even reading between the lines she outright States it. A partisan attempt at impeachment will just further the split. Without controlling the Senate it would have to be a bipartisan action. This isn't hard, it's actually really easy if you just read the actual article instead of the tomes that have been written about the single line. This isn't 12th dimensional chess, this is parliamentary rule. What good would trying Trump in the house along partisan lines do if you know for sure that under the current environment there will be no conviction in the Senate. Phi230 posted:Democrats can still accuse any leftists or dissenters of being russian spies so maybe its a wash for ya'll Why don't you go ahead and call that poster out instead of being so nebulous about the people who are besmirching you.
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Mar 24, 2019 03:37
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bowser posted:I wish I could have this much faith in rural Americans, but most of them aren't "economically anxious", they're just racist. On the other hand, radical proposals to fundamentally change the economy and way the government works may bring out new voters who would have otherwise sat the election out. outside of the midwest, rural america isn't lily white 420 Gank Mid posted:The reason republicans win elections is not because they've got the unanimous support of rural america but because their niche coalition of religious extremism and wealthy local business owners dominate local politics and democrats have either chosen to refuse to compete in those areas, or just sent a politician that was a carbon copy of the republican but 'slightly less so' exactly. few rural people who aren't already relatively well-off bother voting because it doesn't change their lives The Muppets On PCP fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Mar 24, 2019 |
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Mar 24, 2019 04:44
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Kobayashi posted:Republicans are fascist, what you don't realize is that we're actually trying to stamp out the liberal pablum that you keep peddling. Man, you got a looooooong way to go, but I admire your ambition.
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Mar 24, 2019 04:50
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Kobayashi posted:The even more cynical, correct read is that Democrats tooted the Trump snake charming whistle to keep the braying asses distracted from impending ecological collapse and the continued disintegration of polite society, all for a couple grand in campaign contributions and the nebulous prospect of a cushy think tank job in a few years. https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1109636197993725952
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Mar 24, 2019 06:03
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Gripweed posted:The Democrats have spent the past two years accusing Trump of being a Russian spy. The entire time, Trump has been saying "no collusion, no collusion" and calling it a witch hunt. If the Mueller report really says there's not enough evidence of collusion, that' it, Trump has won the argument. And trying to pivot to some other investigation would just make it look like he was right about it being a witch hunt. That's not really how it works, because the most likely outcome is something much closer to the Hillary emails investigation: a report that says there was plenty of unethical behavior, but nothing to warrant a crime. The Republicans will seize on the 'no crime' part, the Democrats will seize on the "unethical behavior" part, and nothing will change either way.
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Mar 24, 2019 06:45
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Hey...I don't know how to tell you this..um, it's super awkward. Ok. Here goes. West Texas is....oil land. That's what they do out there. So, by nature, that's what his constituency does for a living by and large. And these are personal donations That's like getting aerospace money in Washington, or tech money in silicon valley. Or maple syrup? Money in Vermont. I don't know what Vermont makes. Does it make a thing? Anywho. Back to storming the castle or whatever you are doing.
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Mar 24, 2019 06:47
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