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CharlestheHammer posted:Which is what shonen mostly is and that turns out to be the anime with the most broad appeal.
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Mar 24, 2019 19:28
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Puppy Time posted:Blaming this all on media consumption is way too simplistic. It ignores both the vast, vast majority of nerds who don't end up fascist jerks (and, in the case of superhero movies now, the non-nerds), and the nerd media that are pro-social (a lot of anime carry extremely pro-social messages about getting along with people, working together, forgiveness, etc.) At the risk of being labelled a centrist, I'd argue that another issue is that when you go, 'nerds are lovely people and should gently caress off and die', it only serves to further alienate said people and pushes them further away, either into the hands of the alt-right, or potentially into harming themselves. The 'influence by media consumption' thing is like a Jack Thompson talking point.
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Mar 24, 2019 20:43
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Max Wilco posted:At the risk of being labelled a centrist, I'd argue that another issue is that when you go, 'nerds are lovely people and should gently caress off and die', it only serves to further alienate said people and pushes them further away, either into the hands of the alt-right, or potentially into harming themselves. Yeah, it's a tricky issue finding a good balance between making sure that marginalized people are safe and making sure that other people know they're still welcome at the table, especially since equality looks like oppression if you're privileged. I think a lot of it just comes down to acknowledging that privileged people can still have lovely lives (not just letting it go on tacit assumption), focusing on behavior (saying "We don't talk like that/do that in this group"), and being patient with the good faith people. Probably an ultimate solution would be improving mental health care in the country, since the main issue often comes from depressed and isolated people who don't know how to help themselves out of their pit, but that's sort of a pipe dream at the moment, sadly. Probably the best we can do is try to teach coping strategies for when you run into "check your privilege" situations. (And by "we" I mean ally type people, because God knows marginalized people have enough on their plates and probably aren't in a great position to be patient with fuckups that harm them in the first place!) ETA: Max Wilco posted:The 'influence by media consumption' thing is like a Jack Thompson talking point. It's also a really difficult thing to argue, since it's a chicken-egg issue: there's no way of telling whether someone was influenced by media consumption, or whether they consumed a particular type of media because it caters to stuff they're already inclined toward. Plus, the fact that any media influence tends to be hard to measure and may all boil down to "some people are really, really easy to influence." Humans are complicated and weird and you can't really pin behaviors down to an easy cause and effect, or else we wouldn't be having this problem in the first place! Puppy Time fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 24, 2019 |
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Mar 24, 2019 21:19
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Puppy Time posted:It's also a really difficult thing to argue, since it's a chicken-egg issue: there's no way of telling whether someone was influenced by media consumption, or whether they consumed a particular type of media because it caters to stuff they're already inclined toward. Plus, the fact that any media influence tends to be hard to measure and may all boil down to "some people are really, really easy to influence." On the flipside, you can't deny its existence entirely because the entire industry of marketing as a subset of and influence on media exists as the continuation of an experiment in political social control.
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Mar 24, 2019 21:33
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Puppy Time posted:It's also a really difficult thing to argue, since it's a chicken-egg issue: there's no way of telling whether someone was influenced by media consumption, or whether they consumed a particular type of media because it caters to stuff they're already inclined toward. Plus, the fact that any media influence tends to be hard to measure and may all boil down to "some people are really, really easy to influence." It infuriates me, because it's like people serving as successors to the Satanic panic group of the '80s in regards to D&D and whatnot. The rationale may be more grounded (media influencing people's behavior as opposed to making them demon-prone), but it still has the same underlying condescension: it's the notion that people are dumb, ignorant sheep who can't think for themselves, and that whatever they read, watch, or hear is just programmed into their brain. It's the moral watchdog type, who think it's their duty to make sure that people are only fed the right kind of things, less they be led down the wrong path. If you challenge them on it, then they dismiss you under the notion that you're denying it, or trying to justify it.
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Mar 24, 2019 22:00
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Max Wilco posted:It infuriates me, because it's like people serving as successors to the Satanic panic group of the '80s in regards to D&D and whatnot. The rationale may be more grounded (media influencing people's behavior as opposed to making them demon-prone), but it still has the same underlying condescension: it's the notion that people are dumb, ignorant sheep who can't think for themselves, and that whatever they read, watch, or hear is just programmed into their brain. Okay, just cut to the bottom line and show us your anime porn collection, we haven't got all day and we're very busy people
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Mar 24, 2019 22:03
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CYBEReris posted:On the flipside, you can't deny its existence entirely because the entire industry of marketing as a subset of and influence on media exists as the continuation of an experiment in political social control. Yeah but on the other hand, look at all the marketing- media and political- that fails spectacularly. Nobody's found that magic word that controls everyone's minds yet. And my impression is that a lot of marketing consists of a bunch of unproven "rules"* and people bumbling around making guesses. *Like "movies starring women and/or black people don't do well"
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Mar 24, 2019 22:14
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Puppy Time posted:Yeah but on the other hand, look at all the marketing- media and political- that fails spectacularly. Plenty of it runs on focus tested fart gas but it survives as an overall practice and makes absurd amounts of money because humans are really good at identifying patterns even when they don't have a clue what they actually mean.
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Mar 24, 2019 22:18
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21 Muns posted:Okay, just cut to the bottom line and show us your anime porn collection, we haven't got all day and we're very busy people  Obviously I went overboard with that, and making that comparison wasn't appropriate. My point is that there are a lot of people who think audiences are totally brainwashed by what they see. I take umbrage with that, because it feels a lot like condescension, or belittlement of their intelligence. People don't just accept everything they see and live in a vacuum; they can dislike or questions aspects of a movie or a book, and they can converse with other people and learn their perspective. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Mar 24, 2019 |
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Mar 24, 2019 22:56
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The fallacy in Thompson's argument wasn't that media does not influence people, it's that he tended to claim it worked almost like brainwashing, that kids playing violent video games would almost immediately reproduce the violence they saw by virtue of having seen it. This is wrong mostly in how oversimplified and presumptive it is. Watching The Big Bang Theory probably won't make you talk like Sheldon and carry a soundboard with a laugh-track anywhere, but it does lodge ideas in your head. And if those ideas only ever get reinforced and never contradicted they can influence people's reasoning in unnoticed ways.
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Mar 24, 2019 23:26
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Puppy Time posted:It's also a really difficult thing to argue, since it's a chicken-egg issue: there's no way of telling whether someone was influenced by media consumption, or whether they consumed a particular type of media because it caters to stuff they're already inclined toward. Plus, the fact that any media influence tends to be hard to measure and may all boil down to "some people are really, really easy to influence." the fault is not in thinking that people are directly influenced by media (they are) but in thinking that isolating one type of media (eg: video games, violent movies) is all that is necessary. instead, all that will happen is the people who already want what that media offers, escapism, or romance, or vicarious thrills, whatever, will simply migrate to production of a different kind of media that presents the same ideas in a different form to the same audience. before video-games it was video-nasties, before video-nasties it was penny-dreadfuls, before penny-dreadfuls it was libelles. it's like untangling an ouroboros, you can't just pull the tail out you have to convince the serpent it no longer wants to eat it.
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Mar 24, 2019 23:31
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Terrible Opinions posted:Yeah which is more or less the same as genuine capeshit comics. Doesn't stop the Dawn of Justice equivalents from existing in anime and having basically all of the same problems. To be honest those types don’t really exist outside niche groups. I mean you got like GATE but no one cares about GATE. Though finding a media property that doesn’t have problematic element isn’t really possible
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Mar 24, 2019 23:42
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Ghostlight posted:the fault is not in thinking that people are directly influenced by media (they are) but in thinking that isolating one type of media (eg: video games, violent movies) is all that is necessary. instead, all that will happen is the people who already want what that media offers, escapism, or romance, or vicarious thrills, whatever, will simply migrate to production of a different kind of media that presents the same ideas in a different form to the same audience. before video-games it was video-nasties, before video-nasties it was penny-dreadfuls, before penny-dreadfuls it was libelles. it's like untangling an ouroboros, you can't just pull the tail out you have to convince the serpent it no longer wants to eat it. Yeah, basically this. Media consumption is a red herring. One that's tempting because it's a lot easier to go, "Just get rid of all this Bad Thing and presto! No more problem!" than it is to address the complicated underlying issue of "Human brains a super dumb and we do crazy poo poo when we're lonely and desperate for a social group."
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Mar 24, 2019 23:43
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Clerical Terrors posted:The fallacy in Thompson's argument wasn't that media does not influence people, it's that he tended to claim it worked almost like brainwashing, that kids playing violent video games would almost immediately reproduce the violence they saw by virtue of having seen it. This is wrong mostly in how oversimplified and presumptive it is. Watching The Big Bang Theory probably won't make you talk like Sheldon and carry a soundboard with a laugh-track anywhere, but it does lodge ideas in your head. And if those ideas only ever get reinforced and never contradicted they can influence people's reasoning in unnoticed ways. I guess then maybe it's a question of where contradictions to those ideas should come from. On a tangent, my takeaway from Big Bang Theory is that the show isn't funny, but Jim Parsons seems like a good actor who would really benefit from being in a show with better material. Puppy Time posted:Yeah, basically this. 
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Mar 24, 2019 23:58
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CharlestheHammer posted:To be honest those types don’t really exist outside niche groups.
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Mar 25, 2019 00:27
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Maybe not the place here https://twitter.com/charlie_adler/status/1109519823602618370 It's nice seeing Tim Curry seem lucid and okay 
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Mar 25, 2019 01:02
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It must be the most horrible torture for Tim Curry to be too unwell to be campy. I’m glad he’s doing better. Truly the wrong Pennywise was made into a dildo.
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Mar 25, 2019 01:35
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achillesforever6 posted:Maybe not the place here I am a huge Tim Curry fan and this made my day a little better.
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Mar 25, 2019 01:35
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Terrible Opinions posted:While they are less popular on an individual level, we had two majorly promoted anime worse than GATE just this year. I mean Goblin slayer has the rape thing but I wouldn’t call it worse. No idea the second
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Mar 25, 2019 01:38
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Clerical Terrors posted:The fallacy in Thompson's argument wasn't that media does not influence people, it's that he tended to claim it worked almost like brainwashing, that kids playing violent video games would almost immediately reproduce the violence they saw by virtue of having seen it. This is wrong mostly in how oversimplified and presumptive it is. Watching The Big Bang Theory probably won't make you talk like Sheldon and carry a soundboard with a laugh-track anywhere, but it does lodge ideas in your head. And if those ideas only ever get reinforced and never contradicted they can influence people's reasoning in unnoticed ways. This is a pretty good summary of it that cuts through the anime appraisers desperate for their work to count as activism and the ensuing backlash. More than anything media works by getting to define what's apolitical. This could be being gay (good) or this could be enlisting in the Imperial School Bus Bombing Academy (bad). This normative role means it probably plays less of a part in the formation of groups like the alt-right, who contrary to the initial argument tend to love infantalizing children's media about being generically nice to each other (e.g. My Little Pony). The problem with South Park isn't characters being mean to each other but that it pretends that there's an ideological distinction between Stan and Kyle's friendly gee-shucks common-senseism and Cartman's cartoonish neo-nazism.
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Mar 25, 2019 01:40
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean Goblin slayer has the rape thing but I wouldn’t call it worse. No idea the second I would assume they're talking about Shield Hero.
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Mar 25, 2019 01:44
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Thompson’s argument falls apart because it treats media like it influences people rather than people influence media. It doesn’t just form and indoctrinate you it’s mostly forms from the culture that exists. It can be argued it reinforces views but even that is to a degree kind of dumb. It is attacking a symptom rather than a cause
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Mar 25, 2019 01:47
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Arist posted:I would assume they're talking about Shield Hero. Probably. That one has rape, MRA propaganda, slavery and pedophilia. Goblin Slayer is *only* rape plus fascist propaganda. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 01:47
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Arist posted:I would assume they're talking about Shield Hero. I forgot about that, yeah it’s worse
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Mar 25, 2019 01:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX-r5ulpoQQ So, you ask, why take me through all that garbage about neoclassicism to show me a gothic building? And I did that for two reasons. Number one is: the dick shaped building is funny.
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Mar 25, 2019 02:03
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oh my god a new franklin
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Mar 25, 2019 02:14
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean Goblin slayer has the rape thing but I wouldn’t call it worse. No idea the second what the hell is GATE
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Mar 25, 2019 02:29
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corn in the bible posted:what the hell is GATE What if the JSDF met fantasy monsters and housed the gently caress out of them, like it's barely a challenge
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Mar 25, 2019 02:39
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Wasn't that the show a season or two ago where they wasted the premise in the span of fifteen minutes of the first episode?
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Mar 25, 2019 02:47
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I Before E posted:What if the JSDF met fantasy monsters and housed the gently caress out of them, like it's barely a challenge I remember how awestruck everyone were of the JSDF. It's like if Michael Bay were Japanese. .
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Mar 25, 2019 02:56
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I Before E posted:What if the JSDF met fantasy monsters and housed the gently caress out of them, like it's barely a challenge By "housed the gently caress out of" I am assuming you do NOT mean "gave them appropriate habitats in a special preserve," because that is the kind of show that I really want to watch, and Japan seems to avoid catering to me anymore.
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Mar 25, 2019 03:22
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Puppy Time posted:By "housed the gently caress out of" I am assuming you do NOT mean "gave them appropriate habitats in a special preserve," because that is the kind of show that I really want to watch, and Japan seems to avoid catering to me anymore. ah, you must be looking for the slime anime
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Mar 25, 2019 03:52
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CYBEReris posted:ah, you must be looking for the slime anime Isn't that another power fantasy isekai? I'm talking about one of those boring slice of life things that goes into exhaustive detail about how this or that fantasy creature's habitat needs to be prepared. Preferably with shots of adorable fantasy animal families with babies. 
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Mar 25, 2019 03:55
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achillesforever6 posted:Maybe not the place here Still awfully sad to see his once booming and attention grabbing voice rendered so soft and quiet, but he seems to be recovering quite well from the stroke.
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Mar 25, 2019 04:06
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Puppy Time posted:Isn't that another power fantasy isekai? The Time I was Reincarnated as a Slime is more "what if a isakei hero did not have charisma as a dump stat" and tries to get all of the peoples to get along. The closest I've seen to what you are looking for was the dragon episodes of Ancient Magus Bride. But I too would love to see that anime made.
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Mar 25, 2019 04:34
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Puppy Time posted:Isn't that another power fantasy isekai? mushi-shi is almost that?  its fantasy creatures are more like weird amoeba than anything else but the tone feels like a nature documentary in a lot of places
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Mar 25, 2019 04:40
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Twincityhacker posted:The Time I was Reincarnated as a Slime is more "what if a isakei hero did not have charisma as a dump stat" and tries to get all of the peoples to get along. There's also Beast Player Erin, except it keeps getting interrupted with drama and politics and action. Not that I am opposed to those, really. ETA: Mushishi is fukken gorgeous and the best
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Mar 25, 2019 05:21
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Puppy Time posted:Isn't that another power fantasy isekai? Puppy Time posted:I'm talking about one of those boring slice of life things that goes into exhaustive detail about how this or that fantasy creature's habitat needs to be prepared. Preferably with shots of adorable fantasy animal families with babies. Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 05:31
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an isekai where they just chill and hang out drinking with fantasy creatures at a bar in the fantasy reincarnation land
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Mar 25, 2019 05:36
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That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Barfly
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Mar 25, 2019 08:11
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