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goddamnedtwisto posted:Leather-soled shoes are for formal occasions and dancing, anyone claiming they're superior to literally any alternative that's existed for the last two hundred years is Jacob Rees-Mogg. e: 336 mesh sand would be about 4 μm In 336 CE, Rome conquers the Romanian car manufacturer Dacia. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 10:15
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OwlFancier posted:I mean you can form a concerted effort to infiltrate CLPs and stand your own candidates without their being existing good candidates. This is probably why you should wheesht yer pus when it comes to Scotland. It's not just the candidates who are shite. Go along to a CLP meeting in most of Scotland and be amazed at what's basically a museum exhibit: the last refuge of the Blairite outside of Westminster. Scottish Labour just didn't get the same number of incomers around Corbyn's election as the rest of the country. Because 9 months previous the indy ref happened, Labour 4 Indy campaigners were basically made unwelcome and left the party, and the massive swell in numbers of the public joining a party for the first time went to the Nats and Greens. And even when we did get a left ScotLab leader he's turned out to be useless.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:23
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forkboy84 posted:This is probably why you should wheesht yer pus when it comes to Scotland. It's not just the candidates who are shite. Go along to a CLP meeting in most of Scotland and be amazed at what's basically a museum exhibit: the last refuge of the Blairite outside of Westminster. That was my point, if you don't participate in the party you're not going to have a good party. If you want a good labour party you have to be in it, if all of the oh so well intentioned would be labour members are spending their time on the SNP then maybe they aren't very committed labour members and maybe there's a reason why labour is mostly in control of old blairitie farts?
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Mar 25, 2019 10:25
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forkboy84 posted:Scottish Labour just didn't get the same number of incomers around Corbyn's election as the rest of the country.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:26
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Let me start this post by saying I love UKMT. I have lurked this thread for years, and actually regged in the first place so I could follow political threads. This thread was where, for the first time, I saw experiences that echoed my own being discussed in a relatable way. So cheers for that. That said, when the topic of Scotland comes up, it becomes immediately clear who in the thread is from where. Both on the issue of Independence and Scottish politics in general, the majority of posters in this thread are under-informed and come across as patronising. It's honestly a little funny to watch posters with established left-wing credentials go to bat for imperialism. The basic stance seems to be 'nation-states are bad, but we should keep the exact configuration that exists right now, because ?' Internationalism is the goal, but what I think gets forgotten in this is that Socialism is undermined when one group of people gets to have more influence than another, no matter how you demarcate that. An internationalism of equals is what we should aim for, rather than spilling ink in defense of the post-imperial ethnostate we live in now. edit: p.s. if anyone wants to gather some lads up and take over a SLab CLP in the north east hit me up
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Mar 25, 2019 10:26
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GC_ChrisReeves posted:At the studio, we've generally accepted that we may not ever work again on something as big as MC. I've been several pages behind for days but I was just thinking, since this thread is seemingly so successful at rehabilitating gross wrongthinkers, maybe someone should send Notch our way.. I think I came to left-wing politics via environmentalism. My dad was a mid-level executive at TSB before the Lloyds merger so we were comfortably off. He absolutely never talked about politics - it just wasn't a thing so I never really realised it was important except via vague osmosis from school lessons and voraciously indiscriminate reading. My mum however was a passionate environmentalist, Greenpeace subscriber and all that. She went down some weird paths with it (and descended into psychosis and was eventually sectioned) and I never respected her, but just being aware of the environmental issues of the day and having that kind of literature in the house, combined with an aptitude for science in school I think predisposed me to leftiness. The social awareness came later, and real political engagement not until I found this thread. My vehement hatred of Tories stemmed originally from the realisation that they're trying to destroy the NHS which I absolutely idolise. Anyway, back to catching up. Hyped for Monday resumption of parliamentary shenanigans.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:27
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Which we will definitely achieve by reviving older flegs to rally around on the implicit assumption that ancient national borders are valid demarcations of "groups of people"
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Mar 25, 2019 10:27
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Peanut Butter posted:Internationalism is the goal, but what I think gets forgotten in this is that Socialism is undermined when one group of people gets to have more influence than another, no matter how you demarcate that. An internationalism of equals is what we should aim for, rather than spilling ink in defense of the post-imperial ethnostate we live in now. Next step is diluting the English identity to stop the South having disproportionate power.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:29
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Guavanaut posted:Next step is diluting the English identity to stop the South having disproportionate power. english is an equally stupid identity when people who aren't it use it. It describes no useful political, cultural, ethnic or geographic trend and barely qualifies as a linguistic one.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:31
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OwlFancier posted:Which we will definitely achieve by reviving older flegs to rally around on the implicit assumption that ancient national borders are valid demarcations of "groups of people" What is your problem with devolution? What next will you ask for home rule in northern Ireland? It's not politically feasible nowadays.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:31
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*looks at Stormont* I agree. The partition was a bad idea.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:32
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OwlFancier posted:That was my point, if you don't participate in the party you're not going to have a good party. If you want a good labour party you have to be in it, if all of the oh so well intentioned would be labour members are spending their time on the SNP then maybe they aren't very committed labour members and maybe there's a reason why labour is mostly in control of old blairitie farts? Oh god, are we really getting loving precious about the purity of Labour membership now? Mate, no poo poo people bailed on Scottish Labour, Jim loving Murphy was leader here. I wasn't a Labour member until August 2015 for example. Honestly just stop. Your understanding of Scottish politics is on a par with my understanding of Welsh politics, and I resist making broad sweeping statements on that.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:32
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Ash Crimson posted:What is your problem with devolution? What next will you ask for home rule in northern Ireland? It's not politically feasible nowadays. I thought I was pretty clear on that? devolving meaningless power to smaller regions is just political scapegoating. And devolving concrete power like budgeting and revenue is bad because the whole point of a broad government is to be able to redistribute money. If you devolve budgeting and revenue do you think london's gonna give up its money? gently caress no. I live somewhere that's loving skint as poo poo. I don't want no lovely local government.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:34
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Peanut Butter posted:Let me start this post by saying I love UKMT. I have lurked this thread for years, and actually regged in the first place so I could follow political threads. This thread was where, for the first time, I saw experiences that echoed my own being discussed in a relatable way. So cheers for that. Far better version of what I've been trying to say here for years You're fantastic folk, UKMT, but the moment Scotland comes up I cannae tell ye from Orangemen
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Mar 25, 2019 10:35
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OwlFancier posted:Which we will definitely achieve by reviving older flegs to rally around on the implicit assumption that ancient national borders are valid demarcations of "groups of people" The UK is exactly such a thing, a state torn apart from within by a complete failure of its political system. It's not really anything to do with flegs for most people, it's about taking this clearly broken state of affairs and making a clean break with it. The UK needs to be completely overhauled and federalised, but short of this, parts of it breaking off and weakening the whole overall is a good thing. The old Empire needs to be laid to rest.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:36
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Peanut Butter posted:The UK is exactly such a thing, a state torn apart from within by a complete failure of its political system. It's not really anything to do with flegs for most people, it's about taking this clearly broken state of affairs and making a clean break with it. The UK needs to be completely overhauled and federalised, but short of this, parts of it breaking off and weakening the whole overall is a good thing. The old Empire needs to be laid to rest. Smaller states just get pushed around by larger states though. If you don't want to be exploited, it's better to be a larger state rather than multiple small states that can be divide-and-ruled.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:37
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Namtab posted:This is your regular reminder that the snp don't want a Labour government left of Blair The SNP want an independent Scottish government, the flavour of government that the rUK settles on is irrelevant.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:40
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Gort posted:Smaller states just get pushed around by larger states though. If you don't want to be exploited, it's better to be a larger state rather than multiple small states that can be divide-and-ruled. Better that we dissolve all states and live in an anarchist utopia.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:40
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Federalizing the Uk isn't gonna make its population different is it? The UK is poo poo because it consistently votes for poo poo things. You can't fiddle with the electoral system or whatever to stop people voting for poo poo things and breaking up into the blue bits and the red bits is a dumb idea too. You can make the government itself weaker so it can't do anything without a large majority, but somehow I doubt that's gonna build real faith in the effectiveness of the government.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:40
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OwlFancier posted:Federalizing the Uk isn't gonna make its population different is it? The UK is poo poo because it consistently votes for poo poo things. You can't fiddle with the electoral system or whatever to stop people voting for poo poo things and breaking up into the blue bits and the red bits is a dumb idea too. Why do you think the UK consistently votes for poo poo things though? So many of the underlying issues are systemic, and through overhauling state institutions, a lot of this rubbish can be avoided in future. It will never be overhauled though, given how much British Nationalism venerates the history of our government and its institutions.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:46
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https://twitter.com/MarieBard/status/1109852543113457665 The Remain side winning hearts and minds.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:48
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Peanut Butter posted:Why do you think the UK consistently votes for poo poo things though? First past the post, primarily
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Mar 25, 2019 10:49
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Peanut Butter posted:Why do you think the UK consistently votes for poo poo things though? So many of the underlying issues are systemic, and through overhauling state institutions, a lot of this rubbish can be avoided in future. It will never be overhauled though, given how much British Nationalism venerates the history of our government and its institutions. Because it's a wealthy nation which in the preceding generations provided a good quality of life for a lot of its people via social democracy but which subsequently made that generation utterly complacent by disconnecting them from the means of securing and perpetuating that quality of life as social democracy always does, thus making the survivors and most politically active elements ultimately reactionary, aided by a spectacularly corrupt press and a co-option of left wing alternatives into the neoliberal ideological monopoly for the last twenty five years or so, and this is far from a unique situation. Presently we are undergoing a left wing countersurge and increasing political participation of younger and systemically disenfranchised elements of the population. And as that encompasses the majority of people under like, age 40 which represents a powerful trend of material circumstances driving politics, now is clearly the time to start arbitrarily splitting up the political landscape and having everyone go form their own favourite totally not fleg based historical micronation like you're doing a hearts of iron challenge run. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 10:51
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Peanut Butter posted:Why do you think the UK consistently votes for poo poo things though? So many of the underlying issues are systemic, and through overhauling state institutions, a lot of this rubbish can be avoided in future. It will never be overhauled though, given how much British Nationalism venerates the history of our government and its institutions. Hey guys have you heard of parallel structures? Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/MarieBard/status/1109852543113457665 A powerful anarchist statement that the pacifist "no human is illegal" must end. We're all them, and we're all illegal. Be queer do crimes.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:52
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Guavanaut posted:Next step is diluting the English identity to stop the South having disproportionate power. What are you suggesting Fawkes
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Mar 25, 2019 10:56
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TBH if you suggested merging the UK and, like, france, and building a bunch more tunnels, I'd probably be alright with that. Or just pave over the channel or something. Stupid bit of water anyway.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:57
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def gonna get better once you've got your own post imperial ethnostate. the problem is too many ethnostates - ergo we need our own! sure i'm a leftist and that's why it's VERY important that we have borders - that's not a wildly inconsistent position! oh how i love people justifying their own moral cowardice with but you don't get it, this is different, this time it's the left using nationalism! certainly not the inverse, certainly isn't making a bunch of otherwise reasonable people go to bat for the blandest and most centrist party in the UK by a wide margin - forget the tartan tories, they're Dunbar Democrats. but that's just fine and it's DEF not because i'm already entirely marginalized in my own party, my ideals aren't already entirely co-opted and ruined by existing power structures and i'm not already sinking deep into the wooly minded reaction of my compatriots - no it's because you just Don't Get It. see, i don't have to defend my ideas - in fact, it's best if i stop having them at all! the only ethical nationalism is my nationalism. you do it it's blood and soil and base, i do it's citizenship and borders and Civic. gently caress off.
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Mar 25, 2019 10:59
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"If they were here illegally, then laws, including international law, don't apply to them. Check mate lefty libtard, and those damned pesky human rights and UN conventions." [paraphrased comment inspired by poo poo I'm seeing on my feed] They have been successfully dehumanised to that level amongst the masses. With the Tories' track record with the disabled, homeless, poor, immigration etc., it'll be interesting to see how far they'll try to go. [e: oops, assumed she was Tory. ] fuctifino fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 11:00
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OwlFancier posted:TBH if you suggested merging the UK and, like, france, and building a bunch more tunnels, I'd probably be alright with that.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:00
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Obliterati posted:Far better version of what I've been trying to say here for years I support the rights of all peoples to self determination, and accept that in some fringe cases this makes for uncomfortable and unwinnable arguments about colonialism and the rights of indigenous peoples vs committing further problems to seek a hypothetical balance or redressing. Scotland voted, the majority wished to remain part of the UK. That was 2014 with a record turnout. Treating that result as though it was the wrong choice is really loving annoying.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:00
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Peanut Butter posted:Why do you think the UK consistently votes for poo poo things though? aaaaagh oh no democracy wails the nationalist. that's not civic at all!
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Mar 25, 2019 11:01
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Anywhere geographically close enough to build logistical connections to would be nice. I would suggest ireland but maybe that should wait until they've recovered from the last genocide the UK did to them. Honestly being on an island is kinda annoying cos your borders aren't just lines on a map there's like, water in the way too.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:01
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OwlFancier posted:Federalizing the Uk isn't gonna make its population different is it? The UK is poo poo because it consistently votes for poo poo things. You can't fiddle with the electoral system or whatever to stop people voting for poo poo things and breaking up into the blue bits and the red bits is a dumb idea too. I agree, democracy is a mistake. OwlFancier posted:TBH if you suggested merging the UK and, like, france, and building a bunch more tunnels, I'd probably be alright with that. It would be spun as taking back old territories with mentioning of tennis balls and we happy few, we band of brothers. We already have people being flippant about the troubles sparking again, why not the hundred years war?
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Mar 25, 2019 11:02
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Hundred years war is old hat, have all the yellow vests come and 1066 london. Get the bricklayers to cask of amontillado may into number 10.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:03
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I mean unsurprisingly I break from thread tradition and support Scottish independence, but I still think the SNP old guard are disingenuous arseholes. Less so their younger generation like Mhairi Black and Kirsty Blackman.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:04
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Total Meatlove posted:Scotland voted, the majority wished to remain part of the UK. That was 2014 with a record turnout. Treating that result as though it was the wrong choice is really loving annoying. If you voted to stay in the union because the union is part of the EU, well, um OwlFancier posted:Hundred years war is old hat, have all the yellow vests come and 1066 london. Get the bricklayers to cask of amontillado may into number 10. The day after the referendum the Daily Mail had a picture of Flashman unironically praising the idea of imperialism. It was sickening at how the point of the character was used bluntly and without awareness. The media would love to draw parallels in garish tones, and probably tell us that no true English King would speak French while they explain that all we need is to have a few days of rain to make the ground agincourt-esque before we remind everyone that possession is nine tenths of the law.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:07
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Part of the beauty of the arrangement would be that all the french people could come and burn down the daily mail if it got too uppity.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:09
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Mr.Tophat posted:If you voted to stay in the union because the union is part of the EU, well, um So if Article 50 is revoked the result is legitimate again?
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Mar 25, 2019 11:12
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Peanut Butter posted:The UK is exactly such a thing, a state torn apart from within by a complete failure of its political system. It's not really anything to do with flegs for most people, it's about taking this clearly broken state of affairs and making a clean break with it. The UK needs to be completely overhauled and federalised, but short of this, parts of it breaking off and weakening the whole overall is a good thing. The old Empire needs to be laid to rest. I wish you people would actually look at the world some times. The actual world. Not the world you want. There are bad guys out there other than the UK. In fact, ignoring the EU, every major power is currently pretty lovely and amoral at best. China, the US, Russia. They all cunts. They all want all the pie. Yes even Scotland. Because the greedy people that run these countries want everything. No place on the planet is beyond their care. So this idea that everyone should be tiny weak helpless states until we can all live together in a galactic federation is some loving bullshit. You're just going to end up puppeted like every other tiny weak state on the planet. You've convinced yourselves that all the evils of the world live in London. Some of them merely travel there on state visits.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:12
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OwlFancier posted:Part of the beauty of the arrangement would be that all the french people could come and burn down the daily mail if it got too uppity. I consider publishing another newspaper 'uppity'. I am sick of hearing the phrase, "I know you hate the Daily Mail but I read it for the women's section/health column" and having to routinely say, "The Daily Mail supported Hitler and praised black shirts," to my mother as if it was part of the terrifically drole weather conversation.
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Mar 25, 2019 11:12
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