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I'm glad there's minimal customization. Games have become so overwrought with needless gameplay systems stacked on top of each other that don't actually add any real depth to the game. Nioh is a great example with that abomination of a loot system
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Mar 25, 2019 15:58
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I have had the opposite experience with Nioh, as the gear you use makes significant changes in complementing the rest of your build
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Mar 25, 2019 16:02
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signalnoise posted:It does own but Sekiro and Nioh are very different games and they do different things well that the other game doesn't even touch I don't know, I never played Nioh, but I want to, now, after experiencing Sekiro. I'd say though that Sekiro is not a Soulsborne game. It shares so little with them, that it truly is a new thing from From, imo.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:06
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tuo posted:I don't know, I never played Nioh, but I want to, now, after experiencing Sekiro. Nioh has Diablo loot and the mission structure of a lobby-based game. It also has terrible explanations of its systems, which sucks because everything seems pretty well designed when you understand it, but for example the Parry stat on weapons has absolutely nothing to do with parries. It's a good game, but if you wanted a Souls type of game from it, you'll be pretty disappointed. If what you want is an action RPG with Diablo loot and incredibly powerful spells, special moves, etc then you might get really into Nioh.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:13
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Samurai Shodown finally got a trailer showing off more than 4 characters. Old favs like cutie epee-ist Charlotte (now with less armor and more tits- i'm sure old armor will be DLC) and even more cutie terminally-sick boy Ukyo have finally shown up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZtotBLYrQk The game looks beautiful and supposedly focuses more on footsies and spacing than getting up in your opponent's face and pulling out a sick 45 second-long combo. Here's some extended video of actual gameplay. The fabrics look really nice and by "really nice" I mean the first thing they do after the models load in is actually sit on the frames instead of cutting into them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06bZXuxzB60
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Mar 25, 2019 16:15
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ive always wanted a game more focused on footsies
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Mar 25, 2019 16:23
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- hi
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Nioh and Sekiro are both very good and very different games Nioh really really reminds me of the Xbox Ninja Gaiden series in a good way
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Mar 25, 2019 16:28
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signalnoise posted:I have had the opposite experience with Nioh, as the gear you use makes significant changes in complementing the rest of your build There is just way too much of it. I felt like every few hours I'd have to spend 30+ minutes rifling through trash at the vendor I also just have a hate boner for tiered, randomized loot in games though. It's like my least favorite thing.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:35
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I really enjoyed the xbox Ninja Gaiden, the first one at least, but what it really lacked was a "sandbox" fighting mode where you survive against monsters for as long as possible. There were a few rooms like that in the course of the single player mode but you could only do them once and they weren't infinite.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:37
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Shibawanko posted:I really enjoyed the xbox Ninja Gaiden, the first one at least, but what it really lacked was a "sandbox" fighting mode where you survive against monsters for as long as possible. There were a few rooms like that in the course of the single player mode but you could only do them once and they weren't infinite. Bloody Palace coming to DMC V April 1st. (rumors are it will have multiplayer too)
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Mar 25, 2019 16:38
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tuo posted:I don't know, I never played Nioh, but I want to, now, after experiencing Sekiro. Not trying to troll here, but how exactly is it not a Souls game? From what I've played, it has: -Bonfires -Respawning enemies -Estus Flasks -nearly-identical combat (I know it has Poise or whatever, but it still seems to be a minor variation on "dodge/deflect, counter, repeat til dead" -extremely sparse story mostly fleshed out by entirely optional NPCs and area exploration -The ability to attack NPCs by accident and they hate you forever and you get locked out of potential quests/storylines I'm not the most versed in Souls games (beat 1, played 2 and 3 for a little), but aside from the crappy stealth integration and the grappling hook, it really seems like the same game with a different skin and slightly different combat timings. e: the only blatant thing missing I can think of is the build variety, but I'm only like an hour into Sekiro so that may be in there too.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:40
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It's not a Souls game because they don't want to be typecast as they make the same kind of thing for eternity.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:43
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"It's not a Soul game! It's not a Souls game!" I continue to insist as I shrink and transform into a corncob.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:44
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veni veni veni posted:There is just way too much of it. I felt like every few hours I'd have to spend 30+ minutes rifling through trash at the vendor The thing to do is to mark the stuff you want to keep and junk all of it at once, but I get ya. If you spend too much time weighing the pros and cons of your stuff, you don't move forward. Might be why you don't like that kind of loot in the first place though. I think a lot of people got the wrong idea about Nioh based on the first few levels feeling like they're Dark Souls, and people associating the general look of the game with that series. As far as there being way too much loot, it just goes back to people wanting the game to be something it never was. It's a loot game murderfest where you go around cutting demons and people to pieces and they explode even if they die from poison, it just has a lot more to the combat than your bog standard Diablo clone. From my understanding though, this kind of bullshit simply isn't Souls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY4oShQwatI Spoiler for highest marked difficulty on the map for any given NG+.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:48
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Not trying to troll here, but how exactly is it not a Souls game? From what I've played, it has: It is and it isn't a Souls game. All of the DNA is there but the combat is extremely different to the point where it will wreck you until you are willing to unlearn Souls gameplay for it. There's also a lot of structural differences and the story and progression are more straightforward. You'll recognize it was made by Fromsoft in about 5 seconds and be able to spot the similarities to Souls. But it's a much bigger departure from it than Bloodborne. Which is basically a Souls game with a new theme and some punchier combat. Sekiro is not that.
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Mar 25, 2019 16:52
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Sekiro is the evolution of Souls and Bloodborne after From realized that people liked the combat of Bloodborne and that everyone was using a parry build anyway If people wanna say Sekiro is a soulslike that also removes the "pick up your grave after you die" element, because that isn't there. signalnoise fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 16:53
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If it can be described as "like dark souls but ____" it's a loving soulslike even if it iterates a tiny bit, you retard pedants
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Mar 25, 2019 17:00
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veni veni veni posted:It is and it isn't a Souls game. All of the DNA is there but the combat is extremely different to the point where it will wreck you until you are willing to unlearn Souls gameplay for it. There's also a lot of structural differences and the story and progression are more straightforward. So, "combat timing is different" which I mentioned already, and you get more guidance as to where to go? How is that not a Souls game? The combat doesn't even feel that different. "unlearning Souls gameplay," to me, just sounds like timing attacks and blocks the same way. It's not like they added a DMC-style combo system or something; it's still "isolate an enemy, circle around them and wait for an opening," there's still the exact same Souls-style "combat is deliberate, button-mashing will get you killed by the first, weakest enemy you face." I just don't see what makes it not a Souls game. Then again, I don't really see what makes Red Dead not a GTA game with different graphics either. poverty goat posted:If it can be described as "like dark souls but ____" it's a loving soulslike even if it iterates a tiny bit, you retard pedants This is basically what I mean in a more hostile way, I guess? It just seems like there's this wave of people clamoring how it is 100% NOT A SOULS GAME when it very obviously is, in a different setting with some incremental changes. There's that Yakuza game where you're a 17th-century Samurai instead of a 20th-century gangster, and it's still very emphatically a Yakuza game. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 17:00
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poverty goat posted:If it can be described as "like dark souls but ____" it's a loving soulslike even if it iterates a tiny bit, you retard pedants This is what I was thinking but I didn't want to be mean so thanks for doing it for me.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:02
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Excuse me but Starcraft is NOT a "Crafts-like" game! Warcraft 2 did not have an elevation mechanic it's totally different!!!
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Mar 25, 2019 17:05
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Like there's no problem with loving Sekiro or hating it, but "oh god the dodge-roll timing that worked exactly the same for 4 games is different!" is not really a criterion for "this is not a Souls game," it's more a question of "how are there 3 straight games with almost zero mechanics improvements and people STILL want another one that's exactly the same," IMO e: I just realized the hilarious irony of the Dark Souls-loving crowd complaining Sekiro is too hard 
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Mar 25, 2019 17:11
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signalnoise posted:Nioh has Diablo loot and the mission structure of a lobby-based game. It also has terrible explanations of its systems, which sucks because everything seems pretty well designed when you understand it, but for example the Parry stat on weapons has absolutely nothing to do with parries. It's a good game, but if you wanted a Souls type of game from it, you'll be pretty disappointed. If what you want is an action RPG with Diablo loot and incredibly powerful spells, special moves, etc then you might get really into Nioh. Sounds interesting anough for me to give it a spin after beating Sekiro. So basically never 
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Mar 25, 2019 17:18
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If your age is in double digits there is probably something you could be doing with your life more rewarding than videogames but doing that thing is a far more terrifying thought than sitting in your room spending your money and time in safe and comfortable digital spaces This probably applies equally well to other passtimes but not in a way i can relate too.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:22
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I honestly don't know what you guys think the purpose of calling something a Souls game or not is. It's a game made by the people who made Souls that is very similar, but it's honestly not the same thing. That's not a compliment or insult to it. It just is what it is. The fact that some people who say they love Souls are melting down about how much they hate it is evidence of that lol. Doom and Halo have about as much in common as Sekiro and Souls, but I don't see anyone being collassaly petty about how they are the same game. because they aren't. neither is Sekiro.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:23
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JollyBoyJohn posted:If your age is in double digits there is probably something you could be doing with your life more rewarding than videogames but doing that thing is a far more terrifying thought than sitting in your room spending your money and time in safe and comfortable digital spaces whoa re-reg guy with the heavy hitters
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Mar 25, 2019 17:28
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Not trying to troll here, but how exactly is it not a Souls game? From what I've played, it has: There are a couple of things that - to me - define a soulsborne game. The way they tell stories, the way the make you feel like you are progressing as an RPG character which is mostly unimportant, the way they handle combat and - especially - the way the handle you failing against enemies and thus, dying. Storytelling is different here, because it's more direct, but I'd give that a pass if it would be the only difference. Character progression is totally different, so I think there is no need for me to write a long paragraph about that: you simply can't grind through most challenges. Which brings me to the most important part, the fighting mechanics, and how the game deals with you dying. The fight mechanics are totally different, but that's not the point I'm trying to make, because that was the same with Bloodborne. But dying means something completely different in this game, and the bonfires they spread around now are - imo - a proof for that. Since you can no longer grind the game, you actually NEED to master it (I know there are ways to cheat bosses, but that won't get you far). Dying here means you lose half the stuff you had (with a certain percentage of that not going to happen, which goes down while you keep dying). With the bonfires much closer together and much closer to bosses, it makes it much easier to master the fight mechanics, while also making it mandatory to master the fight mechanics. It's hard to put into words, but it feels pretty different from the five soulsborne games before, at least to me. The challenge is different, and the feeling of the challenge is different. I understood why Bloodborne basically caused the renaming of "soulslike" to "soulsborne like", because even though the combat was totally new, the game felt similar in nearly all aspects. Sekiro feels different in nearly all aspects, imo.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:28
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tuo posted:There are a couple of things that - to me - define a soulsborne game. The way they tell stories, the way the make you feel like you are progressing as an RPG character which is mostly unimportant, the way they handle combat and - especially - the way the handle you failing against enemies and thus, dying. Again, all you're saying is "storytelling is more direct" and "combat is different." The fact that they moved bonfires around doesn't make it different, and holy  at the fact that there are people who are so bad at Dark Souls that instead of giving up, they submit to grinding out stats or souls or whatever as a replacement for getting better at the game, but removing that also doesn't make it a different game.And I still maintain that "the timing of when you dodge/parry and when you attack are different" doesn't make combat mechanics totally different, it just means the changed the timing. If you try to play Sekiro in any style other than "turtle until you can parry" you will die, and that's the exact type of combat that Souls popularized. In fact, I'd say Souls has more diverse combat than Sekiro, because theoretically you can do a magic build and just lob fireballs from a distance or whatever. So far with Sekiro it's literally just timing variations on when you can break their stance or whatever they call it.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:38
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veni veni veni posted:I honestly don't know what you guys think the purpose of calling something a Souls game or not is. It's a game made by the people who made Souls that is very similar, but it's honestly not the same thing. That's not a compliment or insult to it. It just is what it is. The fact that some people who say they love Souls are melting down about how much they hate it is evidence of that lol. Doom and Halo have about as much in common as Sekiro and Souls, but I don't see anyone being collassaly petty about how they are the same game. because they aren't. neither is Sekiro. Your Doom/Halo comparison is bad, because they are very different games. Halo, you can only hold 3 guns at once, and your health automatically recharges. Doom, you can hold all your weapons at once, and you restore health and shield with pickups like in old-school FPS games. On the highest difficulties, Halo rewards careful, cover-laden play with precise aiming to survive, Doom forces you to go out and recklessly kill more things in order to survive, and half the gun upgrades in the game exist to make you more deadly without having to be more accurate (Can't aim for poo poo? Use the shotgun! So bad at aiming you can't even use the shotgun? Use the shotgun but the bullets are grenades instead!). The only thing they really have in common is vague futuristic setting and the fact that they're FPSes. By that logic I could say that Dark Souls and Onimusha are the same game. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 17:41
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JollyBoyJohn posted:If your age is in double digits there is probably something you could be doing with your life more rewarding than videogames but doing that thing is a far more terrifying thought than sitting in your room spending your money and time in safe and comfortable digital spaces or like, it's 2019 and videogames are just a thing people do now
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Mar 25, 2019 17:47
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Snow Cone Capone posted:And I still maintain that "the timing of when you dodge/parry and when you attack are different" doesn't make combat mechanics totally different, it just means the changed the timing. If you try to play Sekiro in any style other than "turtle until you can parry" you will die, and that's the exact type of combat that Souls popularized. In fact, I'd say Souls has more diverse combat than Sekiro, because theoretically you can do a magic build and just lob fireballs from a distance or whatever. So far with Sekiro it's literally just timing variations on when you can break their stance or whatever they call it. I think a lot of people play these games very differently than each other, I don't recognize your description of Souls combat at all. In all my playthroughts of the soulsbornes games I've never used parrying at all, so Sekiro feels totally different to me. I tried playing Sekiro at first by dodging and attacking and it doesn't work. Combined with jumping and the hookshot, which are extremely un-soulsborne like, it plays totally differently. But yeah the "feel" of the game and a lot of the gameplay systems are obviously pure Dark Souls.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:52
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Magnitogorsk. posted:I think a lot of people play these games very differently than each other, I don't recognize your description of Souls combat at all. In all my playthroughts of the soulsbornes games I've never used parrying at all, so Sekiro feels totally different to me. I tried playing Sekiro at first by dodging and attacking and it doesn't work. Combined with jumping and the hookshot, which are extremely un-soulsborne like, it plays totally differently. But yeah the "feel" of the game and a lot of the gameplay systems are obviously pure Dark Souls. That's why I said "timing of when you dodge/parry," I never used parry either in Souls, but my point was that in both cases it's basically "circle around until the enemy whiffs an attack and then counter while their guard is down." e: also I thought we were done with "BUT YOU CAN JUMP" as a new, cool feature after Breath of the Wild.
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Mar 25, 2019 17:57
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Chomp8645 posted:Excuse me but Starcraft is NOT a "Crafts-like" game! Warcraft 2 did not have an elevation mechanic it's totally different!!! The problem is that people wanna use it like it's a genre but it isn't. Souls iterated on elements from Metroid and fuckin River City Ransom, pretty much everything is iterative. If you say Sekiro is like Dark Souls in some way that you specify and then also say how it's different, that's all good because it's actually descriptive. If you call Starcraft an RTS that's accurate. Calling Nioh a "souls-like" and stopping there just sets people up for disappointment as there are very significant differences that are gonna annoy people because there's a lot more to Dark Souls than its combat system. Like you absolutely can just mash your way to victory with a lot of Nioh. Do people actually like Steam's recommendations now or something
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Mar 25, 2019 17:58
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signalnoise posted:The problem is that people wanna use it like it's a genre but it isn't. Aside from Nioh and The Surge, are there even any other games that were hyped as "Souls-like?" At least Nioh was a little different, The Surge was straight-up "Dark Souls but it's sci-fi!" Kind of weird to call "6 games, 4 made by the same studio" a genre.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:04
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Your Doom/Halo comparison is bad, because they are very different games. Halo, you can only hold 3 guns at once, and your health automatically recharges. Doom, you can hold all your weapons at once, and you restore health and shield with pickups like in old-school FPS games. On the highest difficulties, Halo rewards careful, cover-laden play with precise aiming to survive, Doom forces you to go out and recklessly kill more things in order to survive, and half the gun upgrades in the game exist to make you more deadly without having to be more accurate (Can't aim for poo poo? Use the shotgun! So bad at aiming you can't even use the shotgun? Use the shotgun but the bullets are grenades instead!). The only thing they really have in common is vague futuristic setting and the fact that they're FPSes. By that logic I could say that Dark Souls and Onimusha are the same game. No. it's actually good because you could make a list exactly like this comparing Sekiro to Dark Souls, and my point was that they aren't the same thing even if they have many surface level similarities that are easily comparable. Snow Cone Capone posted:Aside from Nioh and The Surge, are there even any other games that were hyped as "Souls-like?" At least Nioh was a little different, The Surge was straight-up "Dark Souls but it's sci-fi!" There also a bunch of indie games, but I agree it's not a genre. Most other games just try and imitate the original instead of doing something interesting with it and propelling it in actual genre territory. E: FTR I have absolutely no problem using the term "souls like or soulsborne" etc to describe Sekiro. But for better or worse, it's a much bigger departure from the series than people are leading on. veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 18:12
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I don't think anyone implies that it's a genre of it's own. If they do then they are probably stupid and not relevant to the discussion.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:12
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Aside from Nioh and The Surge, are there even any other games that were hyped as "Souls-like?" At least Nioh was a little different, The Surge was straight-up "Dark Souls but it's sci-fi!" Hollow Knight is a decent example of people on forums and poo poo trying to establish the amount of similarity between some unrelated game and Dark Souls. Cuphead was also touted as "like Dark Souls" just because of the difficulty. I don't have a problem with a new genre emerging and it having a name, but how long did it take for people to start saying "first person shooter" instead of "Doom clone"? The Surge and Lords of the Fallen could definitely have been said to be in the same genre as Dark Souls in the way that Company of Heroes and Starcraft are both RTS games despite having very different gameplay within their shared scope. But if you were to say Company of Heroes is "like Starcraft" you'll get a bunch of Starcraft fans coming out to say how they're very different games, because there's a mismatch between the scope of those fans and the scope of the initial comparison. So it's just good to briefly include some amount of clarification regarding comparisons for recommendations, which using "it's the Souls of x genre" or "x is a Soulslike" doesn't do.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:16
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snow cone I'm not reading all of your dumb words but do you think that Souls games really invented such action game innovations as "checkpoints", "retrying an area makes enemies respawn", and "having a bad story" because lmao
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Mar 25, 2019 18:21
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I'm trying to think of a turn based game that wasn't advertised as "like xcom" since firaxis released theirs
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Mar 25, 2019 18:21
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brb gonna go play this sick 2d Souls clone I found called Super Mario Land 2: The Six Golden Coins
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Mar 25, 2019 18:24
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signalnoise posted:Hollow Knight is a decent example of people on forums and poo poo trying to establish the amount of similarity between some unrelated game and Dark Souls. Cuphead was also touted as "like Dark Souls" just because of the difficulty. I don't have a problem with a new genre emerging and it having a name, but how long did it take for people to start saying "first person shooter" instead of "Doom clone"? The Surge and Lords of the Fallen could definitely have been said to be in the same genre as Dark Souls in the way that Company of Heroes and Starcraft are both RTS games despite having very different gameplay within their shared scope. But if you were to say Company of Heroes is "like Starcraft" you'll get a bunch of Starcraft fans coming out to say how they're very different games, because there's a mismatch between the scope of those fans and the scope of the initial comparison. Hollow Knight has very little in common with Dark Souls as far as gameplay goes, at least no more than any other metroidvania, but thematically they aped from it so hard it's impossible not to make comparisons. if they didn't want Dark Souls comparisons they shouldn't have called their game Hollow Knight, made everything sound like it came from an automated Dark Souls name generator and cribbed from the story structure and general vibe of Souls so much. I love Hollow Knight but it's pretty obvious where their inspiration came from. Stuff like Cuphead and Dead Cells getting compared to Dark Souls is just lazy people using "souls" as a stand in for "hard"
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Mar 25, 2019 18:24
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