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Relin posted:i dont think i can play this...i always ignored parrying in thee other titles (i've completed ds1-3, des, nioh and bloodborne) but i cant kill the second general after the ogre miniboss. i just cant. parrying in mgrr made sense, this doesnt work for me He's tricky. Don't fight fair. Pop some defense candy, throw oil in his face and then light him on fire with the flame vent. Then just don't stop attacking until he's dead. edit: personally this game is, so far, much easier than souls or bloodborne for me. there's no boss that has given me even CLOSE to as much trouble as Vicar, Gascoigne, Pontiff, Abyss Walkers, etc. And the areas between bosses are literally half as difficult. They're too easy, actually, now I think of it.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:58
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Look Sir Droids posted:But you do understand videogames are a business? And From has the Souls community largely on lockdown (we will bleet and squeel about RPG stats/no RPG stats, etc but we are all owned lol). So it stands to reason that with a new IP, they might want to appeal to a larger audience. "Game is too hard" doesn't do that. Anyone that gets a boner off difficulty was probably already playing Souls. Yes, I do. And often the better business move is to serve the niche. Lots of IPs have been ruined because the execs got greedy and wanted to chase Call of Duty numbers, tried to make it appeal to a bigger audience, and ended up appealing to nobody. Ends up people who don't like your thing probably just won't like your thing. Better to make the people who love it continue to love it. Easy profit. Andrast posted:I have no idea where the "they will probably patch the game to be easier" idea is coming from Yeah its a real weird take. After like 6 souls games, they know what they're doing. Sekiro was not a mistake, its balanced exactly how they want it.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:58
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The only miniboss not in a set arena or other gimmick encounter that I haven't been able to stealth are the headless. Bastards ain't got no heads so they sense you coming from everywhere  Oh I guess one of the centipedes I didn't bother with either but they're so drat easy.
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Mar 25, 2019 18:59
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personally this game so far is, having finished temple and castle, much easier than souls or bloodborne. there's no boss that has given me even CLOSE to as much trouble as Vicar, Gascoigne, Pontiff, Abyss Walkers, etc. And the areas between bosses are literally half as difficult. They're too easy, actually, now I think of it. there hasn't been a single non-boss area that I've had to play over and over again like I had to in Anor Londo (1 or 3), Unseen Village, Blighttown, etc etc.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:01
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'the non-boss areas are too easy and linear' is going to be one of the main complaints about this game I think once the dust settles
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Mar 25, 2019 19:02
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Look Sir Droids posted:Souls games are not actually *THAT* difficult too. They're just marketed that way and they require patience. Lmao, they are not marketed that way. They're designed to be scarier than they are so when you triumph, you feel like a badass that's done the impossible. But they're barely marketed at all, just "here's a medieval action videogame, buy it". Most of that is really just the game community being the insane manchildren they are, and "hype" and all that noise. The games marketing is very minimal, just video of dudes swinging swords around dragons.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:02
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Zaphod42 posted:Yes, I do. And often the better business move is to serve the niche. Lots of IPs have been ruined because the execs got greedy and wanted to chase Call of Duty numbers, tried to make it appeal to a bigger audience, and ended up appealing to nobody. Ends up people who don't like your thing probably just won't like your thing. Better to make the people who love it continue to love it. Easy profit. I don't think this can be overstated. Resident Evil almost collapsed under its own weight because Capcom started chasing AAA sales rather than serving their core audience. RE6 was a flop, and it's no mistake RE7 and RE2R brought the series back to its basics (despite the perspective shift of RE7 it felt like much more of an RE game than 5 or 6 did). Zaphod42 posted:Lmao, they are not marketed that way. They're designed to be scarier than they are so when you triumph, you feel like a badass that's done the impossible. IDK the "PREPARE TO DIE" edition of Dark Souls 1 definitely played into that reputation il serpente cosmico fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 19:03
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The Walrus posted:'the non-boss areas are too easy and linear' is going to be one of the main complaints about this game I think once the dust settles Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this game is so far away from being linear that I often was overwhelmed in terms of where I should be going next and secret paths I was finding.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:03
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The Walrus posted:personally this game so far is, having finished temple and castle, much easier than souls or bloodborne. there's no boss that has given me even CLOSE to as much trouble as Vicar, Gascoigne, Pontiff, Abyss Walkers, etc. And the areas between bosses are literally half as difficult. They're too easy, actually, now I think of it. there hasn't been a single non-boss area that I've had to play over and over again like I had to in Anor Londo (1 or 3), Unseen Village, Blighttown, etc etc. This game has Bloodborne style aggressive enemies, however the parrying doesn't leave you defenseless and while the dodges don't have as many iframes, iframes can be very tricky and BB was generally counterintuitive in that you dodged into attacks, generally speaking. Conversely in this you're actually really safe from the vast majority of attacks because you can deflect/block them, and almost all of the ones you can't have a huge red symbol pop up before they happen so you know exactly when they're coming, even if you didn't read exactly what kind of attack it was. So yeah, I'd say it's overall easier than BB.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:04
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Zaphod42 posted:Lmao, they are not marketed that way. They're designed to be scarier than they are so when you triumph, you feel like a badass that's done the impossible. They are absolutely marketed that way "prepare to die" and so forth
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Mar 25, 2019 19:05
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Do we have to post credentials before we can talk about this game's difficulty? I got the Platinum trophy in all the Dark Souls games plus DLC and Bloodborne. I just finished Dante Must Die S ranking DMC5. I like challenging games quite a bit. Sekiro's problems, as I see them, are twofold. First, the game is essentially a stealth game at its core, and any time a stealth game locks you in a room with a beefy damage sponge and just says "Good luck," it feels like the rug has been pulled out from under you somewhat. The verticality disappears, you lose access to a small suite of your arsenal of techniques, and the "kill cleverly" axiom vanishes. This feels lame, especially since damage is so high that frequently you don't even have time to learn attack patterns before you are ruthlessly slain with no opportunity to do what a ninja should do and escape. The second problem ties into the first. Direct combat in this game is incredibly binary. You either play perfectly, or close to it, and the encounter feels trivial, or you make maybe two mistakes? and then get trapped in a cock-up cascade that renders the fight essentially unwinnable. This is most pronounced early on, which to me is emblematic of poor balance. Sekiro is at its hardest right near start, chiefly when you first attempt to take on Genichiro at Ashina Castle, and that specific boss seems like a litmus test for whether or not you will have the patience to finish the game. I have personally not given up or quit or bounced off or whatever, and I'm probably going to Plat this game as well since I'm over halfway done doing so, but there have been stretches of game where I am just not having fun. It's too punishing too early. What's more, there's a pervasive sense, owing to the fact that there's three different core dodge/deflect mechanics, that each boss effectively has a solution that you adhere to or die. ("This boss does a lot of thrusts, Mikiri Counter" or "This boss does a lot of sweeps, jump kick" is a highly simplified version of what I'm talking about.) So instead of killing ingeniously, as the tagline suggests, you wind up having to figure out what the game wants you to do via insane amounts of trial and error. You largely don't tackle bosses with creativity - you figure out the one solution and employ it. Or, as is the case with the boss at the end of reception room in Hirata Estate, exploiting the gently caress out of them in a way that doesn't feel very satisfying. For reference, anyone struggling with Lady Butterfly, you can wholly ignore 90% of her fight's mechanics by doing the Nightjar Slash over and over and over and over. I don't think the game is bad, per se, but I understand why people find it incredibly frustrating. It's basically DESIGNED to be incredibly frustrating. I don't think that's a good thing. If specific bosses, especially earlier on, got their damage dealt reduced significantly, I wouldn't be shocked. I actually think it might be good for the game. My two cents.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:05
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Does any npc sell infinite ceramic shards? Theyre surprisingly useful in areas where you can hug walls next to doors
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Mar 25, 2019 19:05
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mikeraskol posted:Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this game is so far away from being linear that I often was overwhelmed in terms of where I should be going next and secret paths I was finding. I mean the levels themselves. It's a branching map but the paths within it are very one-directional.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:05
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Listening to Bonfireside chat, one thing they mention, which I agree with, is that having to clear out an area of regular dudes before tackling the mini boss is really fun the first time you fight the mini boss, but if you die and have to keep doing it each time you fight that boss, because really tedious. I would support a change that once you kill dudes surrounding a mini boss they don't respawn.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:06
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mikeraskol posted:Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this game is so far away from being linear that I often was overwhelmed in terms of where I should be going next and secret paths I was finding. i think he meant more in the sense that once you've discovered the optimal stealth/murder route through an area there's nearly no incentive to doing it differently ever again, which is fair, but is a complaint you could level at the souls games easily as well.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:06
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The thing is that Sekiro isn't any harder than Soulsborne, it's just different. 10 years ago everyone was saying the same thing about Dark Souls. The difference is that now there's a ton of people that think 'I am inherently good at video games because I beat all the souls games', and now they're mad that they can't breeze through Sekiro on the first playthrough.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:07
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guts and bolts posted:What's more, there's a pervasive sense, owing to the fact that there's three different core dodge/deflect mechanics, that each boss effectively has a solution that you adhere to or die. ("This boss does a lot of thrusts, Mikiri Counter" or "This boss does a lot of sweeps, jump kick" is a highly simplified version of what I'm talking about.) So instead of killing ingeniously, as the tagline suggests, you wind up having to figure out what the game wants you to do via insane amounts of trial and error. You largely don't tackle bosses with creativity - you figure out the one solution and employ it. Or, as is the case with the boss at the end of reception room in Hirata Estate, exploiting the gently caress out of them in a way that doesn't feel very satisfying. For reference, anyone struggling with Lady Butterfly, you can wholly ignore 90% of her fight's mechanics by doing the Nightjar Slash over and over and over and over. I doubt many people who have done the fight did it that way
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Mar 25, 2019 19:08
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Corrupted Monk is a fun fight that I suck at because the parry timing is delayed due to wind-up and I can't read the animation difference between thrust and sweep on him
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Mar 25, 2019 19:08
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I'm so pissed. I'm deep in the end game, like to the point where I'm pretty sure I'm one door away from the final boss, and I decided to go back to old areas to make sure I didn't miss anything and I just now found the skill book that teaches you the way of the fist So much wasted time spent not punching monkeys 
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Mar 25, 2019 19:09
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I think loving Snake Eyes has given me more trouble than anything else in this game so far, but then I wasn't using the poison knife so I'll know to just use that next time. For some reason I couldn't get the parry timing down so I resorted to a Souls style dodge-and-punish approach. The very early game was rough but yeah once I got into the swing of things I never had anywhere near the same trouble just exploring an area like I did in Soulsborne. Something that has stuck in my mind throughout my play through is a Miyazaki interview where he said something like "yeah, if you want raw challenge then we've got the rawest challenge for you that we've created yet, but if you actually use your brain and the tools and information that are available to you then you'll have a much less frustrating time of it"
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Mar 25, 2019 19:09
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i've seen it posted a bunch when people complain about the bull. you can run around and hit it from behind but you definitely can parry/block a bunch of its attacks - i did the deathblow when it still had ~1/3 of its health.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:11
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I don't think it's true that boss fights don't encourage creativity. On the Depths boss I experimented with lots of different strategies and found several wildly different ones that could work and picked my favorite.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:11
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guts and bolts posted:difficulty words I know difficulty is subjective and all but I can confidently say that you're just playing it wrong. I am *bad* at games, beating a DMC game on DMD would be Sisyphean for me. But this game gives you the tools to break it over your knee. Blocking and unliminted stamina are *so* powerful compared to any tools DS or BB give you, you just need to take full advantage of that and the very very powerful consumables and prosthetics. Cowcaster posted:i think he meant more in the sense that once you've discovered the optimal stealth/murder route through an area there's nearly no incentive to doing it differently ever again, which is fair, but is a complaint you could level at the souls games easily as well. I'm mostly comparing it to DS3 and BB, which had very open nonlinear levels. Undead Village, the swamp levels, Old Yarnham, etc etc. The only really 'open' level in this is the Castle. In fact, this game's layout is pretty close to the much-maligned DS2's, except the hub is bigger and an actual level.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:11
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guts and bolts posted:Sekiro's problems, as I see them, are twofold.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:12
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Andrast posted:I doubt many people who have done the fight did it that way I do too. But if you're struggling, the game presents itself as either: figure out the solve and execute it with little to no mistakes, or find an exploit. You could always not do the cheap thing, sure, but the game itself (especially early) FEELS cheap. There are some great bosses, particularly the Corrupted Monk and the final boss encounters I've had, but the early stages of the game are pretty loving brutal w/r/t the bosses.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:12
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Later game question involving tools. Can anyone suggest good ones to look to max out? There are enough branches in that tree that I do not think I can get the mall in one playthrough. Im thinking about getting the flame spear as the spear has been a lot of fun to use, and that works towards the lazulite sacred flame which seems perfect for headless
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Mar 25, 2019 19:13
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Zaphod42 posted:Yes, I do. And often the better business move is to serve the niche. Lots of IPs have been ruined because the execs got greedy and wanted to chase Call of Duty numbers, tried to make it appeal to a bigger audience, and ended up appealing to nobody. Ends up people who don't like your thing probably just won't like your thing. Better to make the people who love it continue to love it. Easy profit. Point is, even some people in their niche are bouncing off the game. quote:Yeah its a real weird take. After like 6 souls games, they know what they're doing. Sekiro was not a mistake, its balanced exactly how they want it. Man, you really just like to say anything that disagrees with you is "weird." I'm not giving FROM cart blanche just because they've made six games. They still make plenty of mistakes. Each Dark Souls game wasn't better than the last. Zaphod42 posted:Lmao, they are not marketed that way. They're designed to be scarier than they are so when you triumph, you feel like a badass that's done the impossible. The tagline for Dark Souls 1 is literally "Prepare to die." They are marketed as hard and FROM leans heavily in to that marketing.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:13
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Relin posted:i dont think i can play this...i always ignored parrying in thee other titles (i've completed ds1-3, des, nioh and bloodborne) but i cant kill the second general after the ogre miniboss. i just cant. parrying in mgrr made sense, this doesnt work for me What I did was get a free hit on him with a sneak attack jumping down from above and sneaking behind him. Then he just has one health bar to deal with. I did die more than a few times but he doesn’t have that many moves so you start to see them coming, expect how many swings he will take etc. Jumping works well with him and let’s you avoid a good number of his strong attacks, parry the rest or stay out of reach until his last swing and then move in for several swings of your own. If you want to clear out the trash first (which was the only way I could win) you can run to the spot with the broken bridge and hug the wall once you go down there. Enemies will trickle to you one to two at a time, letting you take them out easily. If some don’t come down then you can use the grapple point (do this either way because there is an alarm mob up there) and then hunt them, leaving the genera for one on one combat. Hope that all makes sense - it’s a fun scenario once you get the flow of it.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:13
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The Walrus posted:I'm mostly comparing it to DS3 and BB, which had very open nonlinear levels. oh okay so you were just making a joke
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Mar 25, 2019 19:13
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I'd say the levels in this game are almost exactly like BB, just with more verticality due to the grappling hook.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:14
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il serpente cosmico posted:I don't think this can be overstated. Resident Evil almost collapsed under its own weight because Capcom started chasing AAA sales rather than serving their core audience. RE6 was a flop, and it's no mistake RE7 and RE2R brought the series back to its basics. Capcom did that across the board. DMC4 was the best selling in the series but they decided to reboot it into DmC instead, and most fans revolted. Game was okay, but... we finally got DMC5 and... hey it sold really, really well! MGS2 tried changing the protagonist away from Snake to appeal to a wider audience. But... the wider audience never showed up. But a lot of MGS fans were upset about having to play as someone else for most of the game. Guess what MGS3, MGS4 and MGS5 had? Snake. (SOME snake, anyways) Halo 3, ODST and Reach were some of the best selling games of their eras. Halo 4 made changes to make it more like call of duty, and was universally panned, and multiplayer dropped like a stone. 5 also did very poorly. And on and on, there's so many cases of a series selling well and doing good and then they want to appeal to more people, and ruin everything.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:14
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Extremely bummed that I couldn't get Seven Spears to turn away and then get a second stealth blow on him and also that I couldn't rip his armor off like the spear said it would. Still tho you can get that motherfucker in a corner and just wail on him and he cannot handle it. I assume I'm not meant to tackle the big scary man in the Abandoned Waterway yet? Where the Ashna Resevoir dumps you out at? Trying to clear that area out and then head to the mountains One last thing, I've seen a million questions about this, but ignored the answer cause I didn't have context: I like, def shouldn't send Jinzaemon to the Dungeon right? Or anyone for that matter. I have no other options to do with him so I assume he'll appear later
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Mar 25, 2019 19:15
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The more I play this game and get comfortable with the combat system, the more its cementing its place as my favorite From Software game. Bloodborne had great aesthetic but it still was very simplistic, just dodge and whiff punish on most bosses, where this one has like, minimum 3 different viable ways to take on any boss.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:15
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Yeah I think one of the most important things to know about this game is that each boss has some sort of tactic or tool that can make the boss a lot easier, if not completely trivialize it, and you'll either already have those tools by the time you reach the boss or you should have access to it.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:15
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il serpente cosmico posted:IDK the "PREPARE TO DIE" edition of Dark Souls 1 definitely played into that reputation But that's as much about the challenge and the learning through failure. Like, you're definitely going to die, but the idea that the souls games are like ultra hardcore and only for super 1337 gamers is more of a community thing than something FROM / Bandai tried to push. Andrast posted:They are absolutely marketed that way That's the one thing, and it was for a re-release of DS1 that included the DLC for PC. The original Dark Souls did not have that name, and none of the sequels did. What so forth?
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Mar 25, 2019 19:16
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Zaphod42 posted:
Omg no. Raiden was not there to appeal to a wider audience. He was there to troll the fans, which was a central aspect of the game's plot regarding simulation. Zaphod42 posted:But that's as much about the challenge and the learning through failure. Like, you're definitely going to die, but the idea that the souls games are like ultra hardcore and only for super 1337 gamers is more of a community thing than something FROM / Bandai tried to push. "Prepare to die" implies dying a lot. Dying in videogames is pretty much synonymous with difficulty. That FROM chose that for the PC re-release proves that they leaned in to it. Of course they didn't do that for initial marketing of Dark Souls 1 because Dark Souls 1 didn't have a market/audience. It was a new IP. Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 19:16
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I think saying its a stealth game "at its core" is extremely wrong. It has some pretty light stealth elements but "at its core" its a combat focused action game. Just look at how fleshed out the fighting system is compared to the stealth system.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:17
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guts and bolts posted:I do too. But if you're struggling, the game presents itself as either: figure out the solve and execute it with little to no mistakes, or find an exploit. You could always not do the cheap thing, sure, but the game itself (especially early) FEELS cheap. I don't think I killed any boss with anything near perfect execution. I found that the game is actually pretty lenient with loving up since you are really mobile and get a free res. Andrast fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 19:17
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there has never been anyone more enthusiastic to be wrong about everything than forums poster zaphod42
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Mar 25, 2019 19:17
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Look Sir Droids posted:Omg no. Raiden was not there to appeal to a wider audience. He was there to troll the fans, which was a central aspect of the game's plot regarding simulation. I'm sorry but this is just wrong. Kojima himself said that they did focus testing, and designed Raiden after a bunch of girls said that Snake didn't appeal to them and they would "Never play a game about old men". So they gave it a Bishōnen protagonist. But those people still didn't play the game because it was still a game about war drama and sneaking around to shoot people in the butt.
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Mar 25, 2019 19:17
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