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R. Guyovich posted:What would Karl Marx think of Domino's Pizza. i think he would choose the island themed order progress bar oh good, incredible quality snipe in the serious marxism thread
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Mar 26, 2019 08:16
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:looks like the ISO is voting whether to dissolve by friday having been on the national call where the terms of the probable dissolution were presented in the form of several proposals that are presently being voted on, the thing that has surprised me is how coherent and orderly the process has been. like, even to the end, people were keeping to their 2 minutes on stack, and the time allocated to specific items on the meeting agenda is being observed. and all of the arguments were being made on political terms. even the thing that could be the most contentious, the financial aspect of dissolution, is being managed and planned in a very orderly fashion. it is fascinating watching this all from a semi-insider's perspective, and a bizarre testament to the discipline of the organization. when I remarked on this myself in the group chat going on while the call was happening, another comrade said that if the casket is going to be buried, the pall bearers must move in unison. that seems like the most probable outcome at this point, it's just the specifics, and whether and what kind of refoundation will be attempted that is up in the air. we're just lucky the old honchos, rotten as they were, didn't entangle CERSC (the haymarket books people) and the ISO's finances. CERSC will continue to exist. incidentally, they voted to eject its own board of directors after the crisis for their complicity and appears to be in order to continue managing the affairs of publication and so on. the conference Socialism 2019 is still going to happen, though the ISO has withdrawn from formally sponsoring it on the basis that A. its name is now a liability and was driving away other cosponsors, and of course B. there's probably not going to be an ISO soon anyway
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Mar 26, 2019 11:13
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Well thank God Trotsky's Sexual Assault Emproium has a well organized end
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Mar 26, 2019 11:59
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Larry Parrish posted:Well thank God Trotsky's Sexual Assault Emproium has a well organized end it's cool you think problems like sexual assault and institutional coverup are A. specific to trotskyism and B. opportunities to score points with slick lines basically, gently caress you
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Mar 26, 2019 12:01
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RIP ISO, a subsidiary of the US State Department
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Mar 26, 2019 12:03
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Mr. Lobe posted:it's cool you think problems like sexual assault and institutional coverup are A. specific to trotskyism and B. opportunities to score points with slick lines it seems to be weirdly prevalent in trotskyism, which makes it funny to me.
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Mar 26, 2019 12:05
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the ISO was the largest marxist organization in the US for decades up till around 5 years ago. their collapse comes from mistaken political perspectives imo like I mentioned in a previous post and the culture at the top which helped allow for the assault and coverup was an outcome of flawed perspectives which led to flawed methods. I think a lot of people are openly or secretly delighted that one of the other socialist parties is falling apart because it means they can now try to fight over the scraps and win a greater share of the handful of organized socialists in the US to their team now, which is a terrible attitude to take. most people dunking on the ISO now are short sighted about the whole thing. first of all because its hosed up that sexual assault ever occurs at all ever. the ISO is being poo poo on now but there are plenty of other organizations which engage in hosed up harassment and assault but dont get publicly lampooned because they are either tiny and irrelevant or they cover it up real well (like the ISO leadership did for years). politically also, this period seems to be increasingly one of radicalization for more and more workers and many self proclaimed revolutionaries are going to be caught completely unaware of what a period of radicalization and potentially prerevolutionary upheavals looks like. weve seen that exact phenomenon play out in greece and spain with their rapid left formations which quickly gained support but then lost it due to the failures of their program to keep pace with the consciousness of the working class there. a lot of old left groups and formations are going to be swept away or made irrelevant in the course of coming events and its a mistake to think its something that is isolated just to the ISO.
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Mar 26, 2019 12:50
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It's strange imo that the ISO would sooner dissolve itself than purge & reform.
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Mar 26, 2019 12:59
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's strange imo that the ISO would sooner dissolve itself than purge & reform. That's not off the table, in a sense. The thing is, the individual branches of the ISO are remaining surprisingly coherent for the most part. About 25% of the people have left, but it seems like most of those groups are going to continue operating independently. Even in the most likely event that the ISO and all of its central infrastructure dissolves, some of the proposals being voted on are methods for refoundation after dissolution. The question is, how do we recreate an organization so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again? There are also several internal channels of communication that are very actively currently, and will probably become informal channels of communication and coordination in the case of dissolution. It's just that until some kind of central organization is agreed upon, it will be entirely horizontal. Also, the purging has already happened. It's just abundantly clear that getting rid of all responsible parties isn't enough to fix the infrastructural problems, and also just the fact that the ISO now has a fundamentally and probably irreconcilably tainted reputation. Those are the major driving factors of dissolution. Mr. Lobe fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Mar 26, 2019 |
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Mar 26, 2019 13:10
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Another one of the bases for dissolution and possibly refoundation is that there is also a basic realization that the ISO has failed to grow the way it should have over the past couple of years when the audience for Marxist ideas is bigger than ever. There is a recognition that there are problems that possibly cannot be overcome while in the old formation. It is a 40 year old organization, and a lot of its practices are clearly artifacts of a political moment that no longer exists. There was hope for internal reform with the ousting of old leadership in February before the skeletons in the old leadership's closet came tumbling out, but now, that doesn't seem tenable anymore.
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Mar 26, 2019 13:20
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Just wanna say good on y'all for actually taking the old guard's misdeeds seriously tbh.
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Mar 26, 2019 14:18
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The labor strike episode was a baseball bat to the face if you know what you're looking for because it all maps perfectly to a Marxist analysis of capitalism. Traditional magic is capital accumulated through say, feudalism, which the magical servants need to survive while the witches command the vast bulk of it just to have literal power. The crisis is only temporarily resolved by introducing a new mode of production for magic represented by the digital magic form, which is the industrialized capitalism that can eventually supplant traditional forms of power. That both forms are also revealed to literally exploit the surplus magical value of the masses makes it map to Marxism 1::1.  in a series of mostly good episodes, this was easily the best one for me.
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Mar 26, 2019 14:21
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sell me on your org, need to start doing politic's again don't say dsa as my av suggests i live in new yawk
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Mar 26, 2019 15:54
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GalacticAcid posted:sell me on your org, need to start doing politic's again we eat cornbread at our meetings and shoes are optional
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Mar 26, 2019 15:54
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Larry Parrish posted:it seems to be weirdly prevalent in trotskyism, which makes it funny to me. nice to know under the right circumstances you find sexual assault funny, thanks for sharing with the class larry
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Mar 26, 2019 16:18
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GalacticAcid posted:sell me on your org, need to start doing politic's again https://act.betofortexas.com/signup/volunteer/
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Mar 26, 2019 16:29
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GalacticAcid posted:sell me on your org, need to start doing politic's again the rent is too drat high guy died, so we need a replacement, you in?
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Mar 26, 2019 16:30
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Karl Barks posted:the rent is too drat high guy died drat, rip
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Mar 26, 2019 16:56
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GalacticAcid posted:sell me on your org, need to start doing politic's again I’m a member of socialist alternative. if you have any questions about us or our politics I’m happy to answer here or over pms. also happy to use pms to connect over the phone or something and connect you with someone in one of our branches in NYC. same goes for anyone else reading this.
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Mar 26, 2019 17:09
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Karl Barks posted:the rent is too drat high guy died, so we need a replacement, you in? lol he's still alive, jimmy mcmillan apropos to nothing posted:I’m a member of socialist alternative. if you have any questions about us or our politics I’m happy to answer here or over pms. also happy to use pms to connect over the phone or something and connect you with someone in one of our branches in NYC. same goes for anyone else reading this. I don't know much about SA beyond Kshama Sawant. What's their deal.
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Mar 26, 2019 17:16
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GalacticAcid posted:lol he's still alive, jimmy mcmillan okay it appears my information was poorly sourced. well, the job is still yours if you want it
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Mar 26, 2019 17:18
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GalacticAcid posted:lol he's still alive, jimmy mcmillan this made me check to see if Byron Looper was still alive, but he died 6 years ago 
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Mar 26, 2019 17:23
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draft jimmy mcmillan 2020
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Mar 26, 2019 17:24
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GalacticAcid posted:sell me on your org, need to start doing politic's again humanity and the planet are doomed if we don’t succeed at changing our way of life and modes of production yeah i know the state cares about nothing but the defense of bourgeois interests, but unless you’re going to overthrow it and smash capitalism along with it before the ecological catastrophe kills us all, we need you to participate with us in an international and massive campaign of civil disobedience to make it stop join extinction rebellion, or if that’s too milquetoast for you, join deep green resistance
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Mar 26, 2019 17:29
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join the Socialist Party as Debs would've wanted. There are no sex pests (that I know of)
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Mar 26, 2019 17:31
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GalacticAcid posted:lol he's still alive, jimmy mcmillan well were a socialist organization obviously, we’re the US section of the committee for a workers international or CWI. kshama is a member yes, she’s our only governmental elected though we’ve run others at various times and we have other elected members in some of the trade union leadership as well as elected reps and trade unionists in sister parties. membership are all active in our unions and the labor movement in general. not really sure what else you want to know, if you have any specific questions I’m happy to answer
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Mar 26, 2019 17:37
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Flowers For Algeria posted:humanity and the planet are doomed if we don’t succeed at changing our way of life and modes of production i think the ELF are cool and do good work as well but im not sure how lighting a skyscraper on fire in new york helps anyone
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Mar 26, 2019 17:51
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GalacticAcid posted:sell me on your org, need to start doing politic's again https://www.fbijobs.gov
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Mar 26, 2019 18:06
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Flowers For Algeria posted:humanity and the planet are doomed if we don’t succeed at changing our way of life and modes of production DGR are accelerationists, which I'm sure plenty of goons are still partial to, but they're also kinda-TERFs in that they fall under the "gender isn't natural/biological it's a socially constructed caste system" camp of radical feminism, so instead of doing the typical TERF biological essentialism poo poo it's more "women who were born into and grew up in the system of female oppression should have their voices elevated above transwomen who were late to the party": this blew up when one of their MtF transitioning members wanted to use female spaces, and the women collectively decided "no" because they were and I quote "born male and socialized into masculinity" oh and by identifying with any gender or even acknowledging gender fluidity you're reinforcing and helping to perpetuate the gender caste hierarchy. even non-binary people are admitting there's a binary! you can't win Autism Sneaks fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Mar 26, 2019 |
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Mar 26, 2019 18:11
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They explicitly told us not to say DSA
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Mar 26, 2019 18:13
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certain parts of new york DSA are really good but it really depends what branch you end up in and what working groups you go to and so on
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Mar 26, 2019 18:33
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Autism Sneaks posted:DGR are accelerationists, which I'm sure plenty of goons are still partial to, but they're also kinda-TERFs in that they fall under the "gender isn't natural/biological it's a socially constructed caste system" camp of radical feminism, so instead of doing the typical TERF biological essentialism poo poo it's more "women who were born into and grew up in the system of female oppression should have their voices elevated above transwomen who were late to the party": this blew up when one of their MtF transitioning members wanted to use female spaces, and the women collectively decided "no" because they were and I quote "born male and socialized into masculinity" oh poo poo lol i didn’t know about this terf side, that kinda sucks i don’t know if "accelerationist" accurately describes their overall ideology however. their call to dismantle industrial civilization asap is revolutionary, but their strategy isn’t to turn industrialism to 11 in order to bring its swifter collapse, it’s to attack the economic interests of the bourgeoisie through sabotage.
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Mar 26, 2019 18:33
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deep green poo poo is dumb af at least juche has a game plan
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Mar 26, 2019 18:35
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Dreddout posted:deep green poo poo is dumb af at least juche has a game plan that’s the kind of rhetoric that led to may ‘37 in barcelona, buddy
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Mar 26, 2019 18:44
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green stuff can get pretty fash to the extent that it flirts with primitivism or population control
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Mar 26, 2019 18:46
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Flowers For Algeria posted:that’s the kind of rhetoric that led to may ‘37 in barcelona, buddy may days happened because the republican forces couldn't get their poo poo together
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Mar 26, 2019 19:00
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Dreddout posted:may days happened because the republican forces couldn't get their poo poo together ha! scratch a communist, and a revisionist bleeds
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Mar 26, 2019 19:13
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Impermanent posted:green stuff can get pretty fash to the extent that it flirts with primitivism or population control or just placing consumption taxes on poo poo people already have trouble affording.
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Mar 26, 2019 19:16
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who wouldn't want to hang out with the people in the audience that cheered when Thanos did the snap
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Mar 26, 2019 19:20
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Flowers For Algeria posted:ha! scratch a communist, and a revisionist bleeds reads Orwell once
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Mar 26, 2019 19:32
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