|
baquerd posted:It's the classic problem with any giant bureaucracy - who watches the watchers and how much does it cost? Either you get corruption or massive inefficiencies and cost overruns. Sometimes both! If you think rent is bad now, wait until you need to also pay the salaries of 4 overseers to audit the poo poo out of everything that's going on between you and your landlord, and if it's not you specifically paying, someone is. we can talk numbers but you don't seem to care about anything but your wallet, but someone willing to argue with good intentions take me up on this another day
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:40 |
|
|
Thermopyle posted:If no one went into debt to own rental property there would not be enough housing supply. (AKA, rents would be even higher) Socialism is the answer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:07
|
|
|
Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:i'm talking about an existing system in reality and i'm willing to bet this thread's combined stock has far bigger overhead What existing system would that be? Judakel posted:Socialism is the answer. Out of the many possible ways to kill the US economy and precipitate the mass exodus of business and wealth to other nations, why socialism?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:21
|
|
|
I think it could be useful to re-frame the argument less in terms of "inconveniencing the landlord" and more "helping the landlord to meet his social responsibility/obligation to his tenants by providing robust housing that receives prompt care". Ideally, you'd have resources up and down the whole chain, where landlords and tenants can both seek assistance. It should only be punitive if you're proven to be routinely derelict in duty, otherwise resources should be available for people who A) own property already and need help maintaining it; B) People who want to rent property but don't know how; and C) Current tenants who have grievances against their landlords. Like, I'm not exactly a rocket scientist but it seems like you could absolutely wrangle a few billion dollars a year from the blood-soaked machine of American empire if you wanted to. Office jobs are easy jobs, anyone can do them, and they fit anywhere with internet. Of course, landlords who refuse to maintain their properties would immediately be subject to forfeiture and the formation of housing co-operatives 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:25
|
|
|
If people are concerned about the availability of affordable rental housing now, wait till they see what happens when you impose onerous and costly requirements on small landlords, many of whom will simply choose to opt out once the return on the investment becomes worse than passive alternatives. See for example section 8, which is simply not doable for many small landlords, and various forms of rent control that keep potential affordable basement apartments and ADUs off the market. My general thoughts are that income inequality and unlivable low wages are the primary cause of affordable housing problems and zoning restrictions and nimbyism generally exacerbate them but are not the fundamental cause.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:27
|
|
|
BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:If people are concerned about the availability of affordable rental housing now, wait till they see what happens when you impose onerous and costly requirements on small landlords, many of whom will simply choose to opt out once the return on the investment becomes worse than passive alternatives. See for example section 8, which is simply not doable for many small landlords, and various forms of rent control that keep potential affordable basement apartments and ADUs off the market. My general thoughts are that income inequality and unlivable low wages are the primary cause of affordable housing problems and zoning restrictions and nimbyism generally exacerbate them but are not the fundamental cause. I do section 8 as a small landlord, and I find it kind of hilarious in terms of its ineptitude. If I raise my rent by $10, they will evict one of my tenants for me because she's renting too big of a place for her government allowance (they actually tried to do this because I didn't realize the limitation). As long as I don't charge her more, they ignore that she's in too big a place. It's probably just a matter of time before the government evicts her due to market rents going up. I'm sure they've got a good handle on complete control of the industry though, let's give them a chance!
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:40
|
|
|
baquerd posted:What existing system would that be? If that business flees to another nation then it becomes vulnerable to the US military. E: What is an appropriate amount of one's income that should go to rent?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:43
|
|
|
Y'all do realize that if you were to say, give the agency more money to buy better technology and hire more people, it would probably suck less? Imagine if we bought like, one less F-35 per year and retired a missile silo in Germany. There are plenty of government institutions that work perfectly fine when they're funded well. I mean, you can loving eat fish out of Lake Erie for the first time in 50 years. They got billions for the great lakes cleanup initiative and it's worked amazingly. What if you did that, but for housing?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:45
|
|
|
That is a great idea, I am all for less military spending especially when we are counting pennies and threatening to slash almost every social program out there. You have to think about how to effectively deploy funding for public housing, would it make most sense to provide it as a direct stipend to low-income and housing insecure people or would it be best used as an ongoing source of funding for housing development and urban planning? It's not a simple question but there are some reasonable and thoughtful answers to it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:49
|
|
|
Maybe, perhaps, just possibly, the political project of the past 40 years to intentionally obstruct, starve, and dismantle the very concept of "a competent government" has resulted in a government that doesn't work so good. Maybe, perhaps, just possibly, this intentionally sabotaged and impeded state does not reflect on the general concept that the state is actually cool and good at managing modern societies.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:53
|
|
|
Isn't any talk of money moot since we literally can print as much as we want?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:55
|
|
|
Yes
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:56
|
|
|
Yes, government in destructive bad faith where institutional incompetency generating a circular argument for more funding cuts and dismantling is definitely bad.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 00:56
|
|
|
Azuth0667 posted:If that business flees to another nation then it becomes vulnerable to the US military. So, uh, you're in favor of the US military forcibly repatriating any businesses that would decide to move as a result of political changes? Or what are you saying? The appropriate amount of income that goes to rent depends on how successful you are and how successful you want to be. Living with roommates or even your parents in your 20's can let you save and invest vastly more than you would be able to save having your own place, regardless of how much you're making. The lower you spend that you can live with, the better though! Azuth0667 posted:Isn't any talk of money moot since we literally can print as much as we want? Yeah, inflation and particularly hyper inflation is pretty much just a conspiracy and has never triggered things such as the actual birth of the Nazi party or the collapse of multiple nations, that would be crazy talk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:00
|
|
|
BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Yes, government in destructive bad faith where institutional incompetency generating a circular argument for more funding cuts and dismantling is definitely bad. This destructive bad faith was created by politicians backed by wealthy people, the class that rents to other people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:00
|
|
|
Azuth0667 posted:Isn't any talk of money moot since we literally can print as much as we want? This. We were able to print and dump nearly a trillion dollars just to pump banks with liquidity to save them from the housing market crash you leeches caused and profited from that sent the world economy into a recession. Maybe we could spend a trillion dollars instead to do something productive with the economy for once instead of propping up the market where yall swap properties around to massively inflate the asset prices of the ones you are keeping so you can jack up rent every year.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:07
|
|
|
baquerd posted:So, uh, you're in favor of the US military forcible repatriating any businesses that would decide to move as a result of political changes? Or what are you saying? Yeah, if some wealthy person since corporations are persons decides to flee with their money when they've trashed the place its drone time. I expect you to give me a hard number not this obfuscated crap. What's a fair percentage of income that could be allocated for rent? You have the literal president condoning Nazis. Have we already forgotten Charlottesville? I'm not a history person but, the present inflation is low so maybe there's more to it than just inflation causing a rise in fascism.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:07
|
|
|
baquerd posted:Yeah, inflation and particularly hyper inflation is pretty much just a conspiracy and has never triggered things such as the actual birth of the Nazi party or the collapse of multiple nations, that would be crazy talk. As we all know the stability and inflationary capacity of the US dollar, fiat currency backed by the world hegemon and much more importantly the loving world reserve currency, in 2019 is exactly the same as the Papiermark in 1920 Weimar Germany. You are very good at understanding economics and history. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Mar 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:07
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCiYmCVikjo
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:09
|
|
|
Azuth0667 posted:Yeah, if some wealthy person since corporations are persons decides to flee with their money when they've trashed the place its drone time. OK, good luck with your overt assassination of wealthy people fleeing political persecution, I'm sure it will play well in the press. Your percentage of income allocated to rent (or PITI) depends on your earnings and your personal situation. It could be near zero or it could be in excess of 50%. I would personally advise most people who want to be successful to target 20% or less during earning years and near zero in retirement. If you can't find a place under this threshold, you need to either adjust your standards or expectations. You have a sheltered world view if you believe 2019 USA is even vaguely similar to 1934 Germany in terms of what it means to be a country with Nazis on the rise. Crazycryodude posted:The US dollar, fiat currency backed by the world hegemon and much more importantly the loving world reserve currency, in 2019 is exactly the same as the Papiermark in 1920 Weimar Germany, you are very good at understanding economics and history. Are... are you saying we need to get off fiat currency and move to the gold standard or something? The US dollar is potentially subject to the same issues with hyper-inflation but is in a rather different economic situation than the Papiermark, which was sure as poo poo not the world reserve currency of the most vastly dominant world economy of the time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:17
|
|
|
I'm saying that hyperinflation in Weimar Germany was an incredibly niche phenomenon caused by MUCH more than just "they printed and spent a lot of money", and not the kind of thing a vast world superpower in 2019 has to worry about. If we wanted to just magic up a trillion dollars out of thin air and spend it on poo poo (like a vast public housing program), we could, and the inflation rate or world economy or whatever would not care in the slightest.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Mar 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:21
|
|
|
baquerd posted:Yeah, inflation and particularly hyper inflation is pretty much just a conspiracy and has never triggered things such as the actual birth of the Nazi party or the collapse of multiple nations, that would be crazy talk. Inflation may be a concern but you'd have to start printing tens of trillions of dollars overnight before the US economy would start worrying about inflation concerns. We printed trillions of dollars to prop up the US military and our wars, massive tax cuts to the rich and landed gentry, and dumping money into banks so y'all can keep getting sweet low interest rate loans to pick up housing to milk the plebs who actually work for a living. With all the trillions of dollars added to the national debt and hundreds of billions of dollars in deficit spending, and all the wailing from neoliberals and conservatives these past two decades of out of control spending/runaway inflation... what happened? Not much unless you look at areas where private enterprise manipulates pricing in the respective market to their advantage: college tuition/housing/stocks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:23
|
|
|
Look, if you are that concerned with runaway inflation, I'm sure we can find plenty of ways to address the housing crisis with minimal costs. I just found this alternative, seems pretty cheap imho 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:27
|
|
|
Crazycryodude posted:I'm saying that hyperinflation in Weimar Germany was an incredibly niche phenomenon caused by MUCH more than just "they printed and spent a lot of money", and not the kind of thing a vast world superpower in 2019 has to worry about. If we wanted to just magic up a trillion dollars out of thin air and spend it on poo poo (like a vast public housing program), we could, and the inflation rate or world economy or whatever would not care in the slightest. I think we're playing with fire on deficit spending more than you believe. All is takes is a shift in world confidence in the US Government's ability to pay its debts to trigger a global catastrophe, see below for how we've hosed ourselves on spending. HiHo ChiRho posted:Inflation may be a concern but you'd have to start printing tens of trillions of dollars overnight before the US economy would start worrying about inflation concerns. We printed trillions of dollars to prop up the US military and our wars, massive tax cuts to the rich and landed gentry, and dumping money into banks so y'all can keep getting sweet low interest rate loans to pick up housing to milk the plebs who actually work for a living. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp We're right up there next to WWII spending levels relative to GDP without a giant GDP boom on the horizon. We've payed massively on this metric for our spending policies, wars, tax credits, governement bailouts, and quantitative easing all hurt the bottom line. We have spent down our future already as a result. It may seem like a bottomless well, but there is a limit and we're approaching it. HiHo ChiRho posted:Look, if you are that concerned with runaway inflation, I'm sure we can find plenty of ways to address the housing crisis with minimal costs. Good fun. Can we get a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine for free?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:33
|
|
|
baquerd posted:I think we're playing with fire on deficit spending more than you believe. All is takes is a shift in world confidence in the US Government's ability to pay its debts to trigger a global catastrophe, see below for how we've hosed ourselves on spending. Yeah see "a shift in world confidence in the US Government's ability to pay its debts" isn't the kind of thing that just happens, it's like saying in 1890 "but what if the British Empire defaults on its debts?" It's just completely outside the realm of possibility without an apocalyptic paradigm shift completely restructuring the rest of the world's economy too. That's what being the world reserve currency means. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:36
|
|
|
Crazycryodude posted:Yeah see "a shift in world confidence in the US Government's ability to pay its debts" isn't the kind of thing that just happens, it's like saying in 1890 "but what if the British Empire defaults on its debts?" It's just completely outside the realm of possibility without an apocalyptic paradigm shift completely restructuring the rest of the world's economy too. That's what being the world reserve currency means. Could be. "Not with a bang but with a whimper" is certainly how the British Empire went. The "world reserve currency" isn't a singular currency though. The US is merely the dominant currency reserves are held in, currently a bit over 60%. It's been a more or less stable percentage for the US though in recent history. Unless you're a fan of American exceptionalism though, we may need to work harder to maintain that going forward: 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:44
|
|
|
The British Empire took two World Wars and 100+ million deaths to go out, I don't now how much more of a bang you're looking for. Point is, sweeping systemic changes that deeply affect the entire planet (like US treasury bonds no longer being trusted) happen neither quietly nor overnight. I'm not gonna worry about public spending causing hyperinflation today.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Mar 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:48
|
|
|
Crazycryodude posted:The British Empire took two World Wars and 100+ million deaths to go out, I don't now how much more of a bang you're looking for. The wars sure didn't help, but they were on the decline well before WWI.  Edit: and as far as hyperinflation itself is concerned, you're probably right regarding increasing spending and welfare programs. If the US went full socialist (centrally managed economy) though, I think it could happen. I also think we need to be watching ourselves right about now regarding our irresponsible spending habits before we start sliding down into "former world power" history note status. baquerd fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Mar 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 01:49
|
|
|
baquerd posted:OK, good luck with your overt assassination of wealthy people fleeing political persecution, I'm sure it will play well in the press. Oh my, wealthy people fleeing rules that would prevent them from abusing the rest of the populace is now political persecution. Let's call it what it is, economic terrorism, these wealthy people making GBS threads all over the country then fleeing when they've extracted all they can like a swarm of locusts. DRONES CURE TERRORISMS Azuth0667 posted:I expect you to give me a hard number not this obfuscated crap. What's a fair percentage of income that could be allocated for rent? Still waiting on that number your obfuscated crap and excuses will not fit the bill. I literally stated I am not a history expert and pointed out we already have rising fascist sentiment already occurring when we don't have high inflation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 02:05
|
|
|
baquerd posted:I think we're playing with fire on deficit spending more than you believe. All is takes is a shift in world confidence in the US Government's ability to pay its debts to trigger a global catastrophe, see below for how we've hosed ourselves on spending. Stephanie Kelton posted:Let’s remember what the national debt is. The national debt is nothing more than a historical record of all of the dollars that the government spent into the economy and didn’t tax back that are currently being held in the form of safe U.S. Treasurys. That’s what the national debt is. So the question about whether the debt is too big or too small (or whether it might get too big at some point in the future) is really a question about whether that’s too many safe assets for people to hold 10, 20, 50 years from now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 02:07
|
|
|
HiHo ChiRho posted:Stephanie Kelton posted: Unless we're about to wreak havoc on the economy and populace of the majority of other industrialized nations in some manner, taking on debt today is not like taking on debt in WWII. Steph here is technically correct from a certain point of view, but apparently either ignored the context of WWII or the context was not in your quote.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 02:33
|
|
|
A million posts in the landlord thread, did someone have a professional squatter pour concrete in their toilets? Oh...
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 02:36
|
|
|
crazypeltast52 posted:professional squatter jesus loving christ
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 02:51
|
|
|
That sounds lit where can I get paid to squat and gently caress with landlords
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 03:00
|
|
|
i say swears online posted:jesus loving christ Actual thing that exists
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 03:02
|
|
|
baquerd posted:What existing system would that be? Capital controls can ensure that you don't get to take your wealth out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 03:11
|
|
|
Judakel posted:Capital controls can ensure that you don't get to take your wealth out. Those who are even moderately wealthy on a scale where it makes sense on an international scale to gently caress with their assets have already diversified outside of their physical country and also into a variety of shell companies. You'll have to take down the world to get at the truly wealthy, let alone some people with mere tens of millions if that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 03:17
|
|
|
last country to execute it's landlords was Vietnam they then went on beat the us. remember leeches, if y'all get shot and ~your property~ gets handed out to the folks actually using it there is literally no economic downside. As the man himself sez:Adam Smith posted:As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce. The wood of the forest, the grass of the field, and all the natural fruits of the earth, which, when land was in common, cost the labourer only the trouble of gathering them, come, even to him, to have an additional price fixed upon them. He must then pay for the licence to gather them; and must give up to the landlord a portion of what his labour either collects or produces. This portion, or, what comes to the same thing, the price of this portion, constitutes the rent of land, and in the price of the greater part of commodities makes a third component part
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 03:30
|
|
|
Agean90 posted:last country to execute it's landlords was Vietnam they then went on beat the us. remember leeches, if y'all get shot and ~your property~ gets handed out to the folks actually using it there is literally no economic downside. As the man himself sez: Man, it must have been great to live in those utopian days without any need for government or dealing with other people that want the same land you want and/or control over such land. When was that again?
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 04:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:40 |
|
|
Adam Smith’s use of landlord is the same that Henry George used, as far as the right to use a particular parcel. Georgist land taxes rest on the principle that the improvements represent productive investment and the marginal product of the land itself should be the property of the state. A landlord renting out an apartment unit and a groundlord with a 100 year ground lease have very different profiles.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2019 04:05
|
|