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Nate RFB posted:This feels like cheating a little bit (because I think the VN does a good job of establishing most of this part of the mystery on its own) but this EP8 manga chapter makes a lot of this more explicit and might help you out a bit. That's very interesting! Sure, most of that is told in the VN, and I don't know if I would have wanted to read that while reading the VN, but now it's good to get more detail. Especially since One of the things that really frustrated me in Episode 7 was that you spent ALL this time going through Yasu's story, but don't get to see the part where their outlook changes and you don't get a lot of details on the why. Especially funny considering how much Will talks about the "why" mattering. It left me with the honest impression that Yasu went on their murder spree because Battler didn't love them. Thankfully there's more to it. It's almost a little bit sad that in the real world Yasu never got their revenge. The other part I didn't like from 7 was the battle between Will and Clair. Why go through the trouble of going back to the older crimes muder-by-murder, but not actually go into detail? Just saying "this was illusion" or "this was real" didn't feel very satisfying even if "Illusions to Illusions" sounds really cool in japanese.
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Mar 20, 2019 00:41
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They're proof that he saw through each one. There's a hint in each one that should make the crime solvable. The one I remember was something about a lock of illusions, which was about ep2 the chapel murders, which gives you the hint that the door was never locked which lets you figure everything out from there (rosa must be an accomplice because she pretended it was locked, etc etc). I never bothered going through them all because i didnt really care but the hints shpuld really help anyone figure most of them out (and in story terms was an economical way of having will communicate that he solved everything). As for Yasu's motivation, it was stranger than that. She was trying to perform magic because she couldnt choose between battler and george. No Wave fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 15:25
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dev build keys for magical diary: wolf hall are being sent out to kickstarter backers and i just wanna say: man this is gonna own!!! spent the better part of a decade waiting for this game and just from the couple months that are in the game right now it feels way more solid than the first, and i was real fond of the first (also it's always worth saying: gently caress damien)
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Mar 26, 2019 19:30
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did the cool fairy lady that you could kiss but never date in the first game finally got a route in this one
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Mar 26, 2019 19:38
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Snooze Cruise posted:did the cool fairy lady that you could kiss but never date in the first game finally got a route in this one unfortunately no the kickstarter hit its stretch goals to add two "side" routes into the game though, so maybe we'll get to finally vote her into the spotlight for a bit
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Mar 26, 2019 19:51
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Snooze Cruise posted:did the cool fairy lady that you could kiss but never date in the first game finally got a route in this one Actually, yes. Someone apparently spent 1000 dollars outside of the kickstarter to make it happen. 
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Mar 26, 2019 20:35
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MegaZeroX posted:Actually, yes. Someone apparently spent 1000 dollars outside of the kickstarter to make it happen. thank you whoever you are
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Mar 26, 2019 20:35
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Yes, well, (Umineko Big Spoilers) a lot of things DID point in that direction. Besides some random oddness in the first 4 episodes, in 7 there's the thing where Shannon and Kanon couldn't be in the same room at the same in the chapel, and Shannon 'knew' Kanon was coming to the island before he arrived in the Yasu flashbacks. Plus in 8, when Shannon dies in the little murder game Kanon coincidentally "disappears" too. So yeah, the clues were there, and I wanted to believe it was true. Also I almost forgot, but in 6 Battler's escape from the locked room hinges on Shannon and Kanon. The thing that it's important to realize about Umineko is that the "tricks" to the game murders themselves are not particularly complicated. Almost all of them hinge on "Yasu has the ability to gain the cooperation of any of the other adults through either bribery (with the gold) or threats (with the bomb)" and involve the adult(s) Yasu is allied with just lying. Also, one minor gripe I actually have about Umineko is that I think Episode 5 is a bit too mean in terms of using tricks to make it seem like Kanon and Shannon are appearing in the same scenes, mainly through changing the perspective character. There's one particular scene people use to attempt to disprove Shkanon where Erika is in a room with all of the family and servants, and the manga actually goes out of the way to address this because a lot of people apparently complained about it - http://ramblingsofthegoldenwitch.tumblr.com/post/151665480012/if-erika-saw-shannon-and-kanon-during-ep5 As for people not realizing Kanon and Shannon are the same person, I don't think this requires that much suspension of disbelief. A person can change their appearance quite a bit with make-up and different hair, and (perhaps more importantly) the servants were in on it and basically backed up Kanon's story. It's possible Jessica thought "Kanon looks kinda familiar..." at some point, but she probably would have thought "eh, guess they just look similar" after Genji/Kumasawa supported the story about Kanon being a new servant. It's not like she (or Krauss/Natsuhi/etc) are going to seriously consider the possibility that the servants are all helping to hide the fact that Kanon is the same person as Shannon. Also, it seems like you may have completely missed the key point of "nothing not seen by the 'detective' character (Battler in 1-4 or Erika in 5/6) is guaranteed to be true." This was the whole point of the scene with the ridiculous Beatrice/Virgilia battle in EP3. Some people actually took this too far and completely disregarded all non-red text and all scenes not witnessed by Battler, which is even worse, but the main point is that a lot of scenes without Battler/Erika in them didn't happen as told. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Mar 26, 2019 |
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Mar 26, 2019 21:06
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Umineko: I think for Jessica you're meant to look at that scene where she gets a prank played on her in (I think?) her room - logically she knows exactly what must have happened to her, but she didn't want to believe all the servants were in a cruel joke to trick her. Similarly she probably doesn't want to believe that her possible boyfriend is fake and that Shannon, Genji and Kumsawa are tricking her even if she can probably spot the resemblance. This idea also constantly recurs during the actual gameboards, Battler refuses to believe the obvious answer that Eva and Rosa both outright give to him during the story. Erika really only pays attention to the red truth. She gets owned on multiple occasions because one of the themes of Umineko is that "the truth" can be deceptive.
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Mar 26, 2019 21:24
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Umineko: I think for Jessica you're meant to look at that scene where she gets a prank played on her in (I think?) her room - logically she knows exactly what must have happened to her, but she didn't want to believe all the servants were in a cruel joke to trick her. Similarly she probably doesn't want to believe that her possible boyfriend is fake and that Shannon, Genji and Kumsawa are tricking her even if she can probably spot the resemblance. This idea also constantly recurs during the actual gameboards, Battler refuses to believe the obvious answer that Eva and Rosa both outright give to him during the story. That's a good point regarding that part with Jessica in Episode 7. I had never thought about it as a potential clue to get the reader to consider the possibility of all the servants being "in on it." And yeah, Erika is absolutely meant to represent the wrong approach of only paying attention to red and trying to solve things as a logic puzzle (which a LOT of readers did; I remember people just creating a list of red text bullet points and trying to solve the mystery with only that information).
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Mar 27, 2019 05:43
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I never considered that Episode 7 scene like that either, that's interesting. Although (Umineko) I don't think I really caught on to what was actually going on there. That doll was a real person right?I guess it doesn't really matter much either way..
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Mar 27, 2019 13:30
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I never considered that Episode 7 scene like that either, that's interesting. Although (Umineko) I don't think I really caught on to what was actually going on there. That doll was a real person right?I guess it doesn't really matter much either way.. Regardless of which other servants were in on it I am certain Gohda is innocent.
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Mar 27, 2019 13:42
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If you're interested, Humble is running a VN Bundle right now. $15 for the top tier: Clannad. https://www.humblebundle.com/games/...os_tile_index_1
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Mar 27, 2019 16:15
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Your character in Steins; Gate is such a jerk to all his friends. He sends them the meanest emails if you aren’t careful.
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Mar 31, 2019 01:36
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rintaro is a loser and i'm not actually sure how he has friends at least he gets better, and he's leagues better than the guy from chaos head
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Mar 31, 2019 02:42
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Okabe sucks for a decent portion of the game, I suffered second-hand embarrassment plenty of times due to him. He may not be the WORST VN protagonist ever, but compared to the good ones like Battler and Michel "Ballin" Bollinger he's terrible.
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Mar 31, 2019 02:59
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Okabe is great.
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Mar 31, 2019 03:05
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okarin's character arc is so good though and it actually makes the beginning more tolerable if you replay it because by the end you see what kind of person he is when the chips are down and it makes all his loving around a lot easier to swallow
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Mar 31, 2019 03:20
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I like how he’s basically an enlarged kid and still playing stupid kid logic games with his friends. Some of that (But he’s a guy) is really funny. I don’t like how he constantly digs at and undermines everyone else and the game doesn’t give you much of a choice about whether he’s going to be a total dick or not. At least he’s not Shinji Ikari, is what I tell myself. No visual novel protagonist is ever as annoying as Shinji.
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Mar 31, 2019 03:28
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I think Okabe is a great protagonist. The game does a good job of getting you inside his head so you can see why he acts the way he does, and puts him in situations where his worldview/facade is challenged which spurs personal growth. Also I really like the voice performance, it's usually fun even when he's blatantly just being a dick. Also Shinji good.
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Mar 31, 2019 14:07
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him screaming "banana" is the best voice acting i've ever seen in any work
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Mar 31, 2019 14:27
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Yeah Okabe is a good character but I'll admit to finding him offputting at first when I thought I was getting that jackass from Chaos;Head again. Of course I never finished Chaos;Head despite multiple attempts so maybe that guy gets more tolerable too. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 14:33
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Okabe is cool and great and my friend.
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Mar 31, 2019 14:47
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Saoshyant posted:Okabe is cool and great and my friend.
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Mar 31, 2019 15:29
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I guess he's better than whoever were the MCs of Ever17, whom I've forgotten.
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Mar 31, 2019 16:32
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He’s one of the more likable protagonists I’ve seen in VNs really.
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Mar 31, 2019 16:36
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I guess he's better than whoever were the MCs of Ever17, whom I've forgotten. In a way this could be read as a nice self-own.
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Mar 31, 2019 16:41
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Feels Villeneuve posted:him screaming "banana" is the best voice acting i've ever seen in any work Same
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Mar 31, 2019 16:51
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Takeshi was a bit of a jerk, but I thought
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Mar 31, 2019 16:56
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I remember all the characters from Ever17 well. Except for that black-haired girl that shows up in the Kid’s routes. Like, I know she was Takeshi’s daughter or something like that and had IR vision from the Infinity Virus, but I don’t remember her personality or her role in the routes or anything.
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Mar 31, 2019 17:24
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I remember "BW" of course, but the rest of Ever17 is shrouded by memories having to play Kick The Can for what felt like 500 times.
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Mar 31, 2019 17:26
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Raxivace posted:Yeah Okabe is a good character but I'll admit to finding him offputting at first when I thought I was getting that jackass from Chaos;Head again. Nope, he's a lame-o the whole way through Spoilers for the end of Chaos;Head: Near the end, MC finally gets his magic powers, and fights off some supernatural menace on the edge of a building above the Shibuya scramble. The crowd is stunned, and then starts going wild, all 'That kid is magic! He saved the city!' MC gets pissed and shouts until they quiet down, and then yells at them, paraphrased: "You guys all loving hated me because I didn't want to talk to people, and spent all day playing an MMO, going on 2chan, and jacking it to anime figurines, and now you cheer? Because I got a magic sword? Guess what fuckos, I still want to spend all day playing my MMO, going on 2chan, and jacking it to anime figurines! Nothing important about what you hated has changed, so why the gently caress are you cheering?" Then he saves the world, then he goes back to living in his storage unit on the roof. So, you know, good character moment, but if you hated the fact that he was a huge nerd with no interest in the world as a whole, it's certainly not going to change your mind.
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Mar 31, 2019 17:28
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I finished Umineko five days ago and haven't stopped thinking about it since. I think its ideas about magic and rewriting your understanding of the world are going to stick with me for a while. (The final choice was absolutely perfect. I love that it has a very simple, obvious answer, but the obvious answer to someone who's played Umineko is completely different from the obvious answer to someone who hasn't.) More importantly, though: the relationship between Beatrice and Battler is a constant delight. I love Battler's outrage at New Beatrice having the audacity to give him non-poisoned cookies; Beato would never have done this! I wasn't expecting to end up this invested in the strange, murder-filled courtship between a guy and his aunt who is also his cousin, but I have accepted it. I really hope the Umineko Gold audiobook project comes to fruition. It'd be great to have Umineko in a format more accessible for people who aren't into visual novels, and Battler's breakdown in the preview clip (first twilight of the first episode) is really excellently done. I'm very fond of Battler, but the parts where he completely psychologically collapses are my favourite parts of Umineko. I'm a lot like Beatrice, in that respect.
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Apr 1, 2019 09:28
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There is an epilogue chapter of Umineko coming out. I know it will include the Our Confession pamphlet (which basically shows you a half-written gameboard so you can see how they work) but it may have other stuff too. Webpage: http://www.07th-expansion.net/umi_saku/
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Apr 1, 2019 22:25
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(Umineko spoilers) would sayo have literally rolled dice to determine how she'd kill everyone? Or was she just going to see if people would start killing each other and roll with it from there? Something that I was mislead on big time is that for the first four chapters everything that happens pre-typhoon is identical and theoretically the only thing that changes what happens are the actions of Sayo (and who she approaches to be an accomplice etc). I don't remember any discussion on how she'd choose to do it.
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Apr 1, 2019 22:31
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Umineko: Every episode of Umineko represents something that could've happened - the stuff about "pieces can't move against their nature" basically meant "Sayo's stories always have everyone acting perfectly in-character". So Sayo could've done exactly what she did in the first two episodes, but her plan is explicitly very flexible and she changes it based on chance and whim. Who she recruits and who she kills is based on how she's feeling and what opportunities present themselves. So it's a metaphorical roulette but not necessarily a literal one. As an example, in episode 2 Rosa goes outside to find Maria in the rain. This means that Sayo meets her when she hands Maria the letter, and she takes this opportunity to bribe Rosa and get her in on the murder plan. There's also a pre-murders scene where Shannon has fun cooking with Gohda, which in retrospect has a strong "I'll kill you last" vibe. And at the start of the game Sayo decides to have Beatrice explicitly appear as a possible heir to Kinzo's fortune, which naturally leads to her calling all the parents together to talk about the inheritance so she can poison them. I'm not sure what you mean about things starting differently before the typhoon? Stuff can vary on day one before the storm descends, but before that I think deeper backstory content remains the same outside of like, episode 7. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Apr 1, 2019 |
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Apr 1, 2019 23:28
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What's with this Diabolik Lovers VN and Rejet? I've heard of companies not caring about foreign fans but this is a whole other level of weird. What could possibly be the motivation for refusing to let something be lccalized in spite of interest? Are there a lot of Japanese companies like that?
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Apr 3, 2019 03:31
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i got fed up with all the black boxes in this thread so i started Umineko and finished chapter 1 i started out actively disliking it because of what I saw as bad editing (not just the length of the first part but stuff like conversations where characterization was *way* too explicit when it should have been perfectly clear from tone and context, like A:"I see...." Narrator:"Character A was feeling suspicious"), but jesus christ did it pick up after that. feel free not to answer this if it would ruin too much of it, but how much should I be worrying myself w/r/t trying to solve the mystery myself rather than enjoying it as a thriller/mystery piece so far? i've definitely heard that the riddle is basically impossible for non-native Japanese speakers, for instance. ch1 mystery thoughts spoilers things i'm thinking about the mystery that may or may not be true 1) any motivation for murder (assuming someone in the party is the culprit) is extremely complicated because of the clause where everyone comes back to life at the end. anyone who sufficiently believes the riddle could kill (or kill themselves) without any remorse, which makes things a bit interesting. 2) kanon's death struck me as immediately suspicious, because he didn't die immediately. i have no clue if i'm reading too much into this, but it seems strange that an all powerful killing force didn't just kill him outright 3) was it just me, or was the order of the twilights a bit off? 4) not sure how to think about Beatrice's "physical" presence in the end, though the bit in "???" suggest some explicit metafictional stuff at play and that I shouldn't take it as a literal fact just yet Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 17:24
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The editing is for sure atrocious. You will probably get really, really frustrated with it at some point in chapter 3 (I sure did). The biggest slog imo is the first half of chapter 4 but then it's smoother.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:32
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It's probably best to think of it as basically unedited
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Apr 3, 2019 17:38
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