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Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
that is rad and chill as gently caress

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Motto
Aug 3, 2013

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

the recent one is lukewarm at the absolute best

the one Gorf linked is fantastic though

aw, I'd been interested in trying that one :(

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I really like new gegege, imo. the ww2 ep and the phone horror ep were both great.

Nipponophile
Apr 8, 2009

Rianlee posted:

This second request feels impossible; a friend likes anime like Bubblegum Crisis, Witch Hunter Robin, Sol-Bianca, and the two Ghost in the Shell series. So strong women protagonists in a sci-fi setting. Anything within the last 15 years that again doesn't have underage characters and excessive fanservice?

Appleseed is a thing.

If they're not stuck on sci-fi, Moribito has a great strong female protagonist.

Nipponophile fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Mar 25, 2019

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
Didn't the new Kitaro did an early episode that had like an incredibly coincidental timing, almost eerily so criticizing youtubers/internet famous peeps at the same time of the Logan Paul Aokigahara incident?

Willsun
Dec 9, 2006

I willed too hard again...
I haven't dived into a good romance/drama anime in a super long time and I'm getting cravings. My favorite was Lovely Complex from way back in 2007 because the couple in it had good chemistry and I liked how their relationship was based on being super rad with each other. Honey and Clover was super cool too because it was in the josei genre geared toward college and post high school life.

If anyone knows of any sorta recent recommendations for romance or romcoms to throw my way, I'd appreciate it.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Willsun posted:

I haven't dived into a good romance/drama anime in a super long time and I'm getting cravings. My favorite was Lovely Complex from way back in 2007 because the couple in it had good chemistry and I liked how their relationship was based on being super rad with each other. Honey and Clover was super cool too because it was in the josei genre geared toward college and post high school life.

If anyone knows of any sorta recent recommendations for romance or romcoms to throw my way, I'd appreciate it.

if you somehow haven't seen Ore Monogatari yet get on that

AnoHito
May 8, 2014

Willsun posted:

I haven't dived into a good romance/drama anime in a super long time and I'm getting cravings. My favorite was Lovely Complex from way back in 2007 because the couple in it had good chemistry and I liked how their relationship was based on being super rad with each other. Honey and Clover was super cool too because it was in the josei genre geared toward college and post high school life.

If anyone knows of any sorta recent recommendations for romance or romcoms to throw my way, I'd appreciate it.

Golden Time

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Willsun posted:

I haven't dived into a good romance/drama anime in a super long time and I'm getting cravings. My favorite was Lovely Complex from way back in 2007 because the couple in it had good chemistry and I liked how their relationship was based on being super rad with each other. Honey and Clover was super cool too because it was in the josei genre geared toward college and post high school life.

If anyone knows of any sorta recent recommendations for romance or romcoms to throw my way, I'd appreciate it.
High-School Set:
Bloom into You (kinda complicated relationship drama, lots of really good sexuality exploration/thoughts, supportive older lesbian couple which is rad)
Ore Monogatari (Really funny, great best friend character)

Fantasy:

Snow White with the Red Hair (solid development in the relationship, fairly sweet and comfortable)
Spice and Wolf (Great banter between the leads, who are both solidly adults - they're obviously interested in each other and flirt and have back and forths without forced misunderstandings or anything being used to develop the relationship, protag is a traveling merchant so there's lots of lowkey local politics and economics between the romance, up to you if that's a plus or minus but it never overwhelms the romance)

College-set:
Nodame Cantabile (Solid romcom, built around classical music with some jokes built around classical music but it does a decent job introducing classical music if you don't know it)

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Willsun posted:

I haven't dived into a good romance/drama anime in a super long time and I'm getting cravings. My favorite was Lovely Complex from way back in 2007 because the couple in it had good chemistry and I liked how their relationship was based on being super rad with each other. Honey and Clover was super cool too because it was in the josei genre geared toward college and post high school life.

If anyone knows of any sorta recent recommendations for romance or romcoms to throw my way, I'd appreciate it.

Gamers (one of the funniest comedy of manners you'll ever see, just don't let the first episode fool you with its setup. It's a fakeout)

Rascal Does not dream of Bunny Girl Senpai. (Actually a really good character-driven show, and lets the protagonists HAVE a relationship rather than a will-they-won't-they thing)

Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Mar 26, 2019

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty

Willsun posted:

I haven't dived into a good romance/drama anime in a super long time and I'm getting cravings. My favorite was Lovely Complex from way back in 2007 because the couple in it had good chemistry and I liked how their relationship was based on being super rad with each other. Honey and Clover was super cool too because it was in the josei genre geared toward college and post high school life.

If anyone knows of any sorta recent recommendations for romance or romcoms to throw my way, I'd appreciate it.
Paradise kiss

If manga is possible for you, maybe pick up lovely complex and the short sequel to it, and the newer series by the same author which imo is wayyyy better than lovely complex about a 30-something office lady called Please Love the Useless Me, it's hilarious and really heartfelt too

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!
coincidentally the first episode of gamers is also kind of terribly directed in comparison to the entire rest of the show for reasons i'm not entirely sure of

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

The Colonel posted:

coincidentally the first episode of gamers is also kind of terribly directed in comparison to the entire rest of the show for reasons i'm not entirely sure of

I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and wager it's deliberately done that way as PART of the fakeout. Just to make it look as generically shonen as absolutely possible.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
The Help Identify An Anime thread got archived, but maybe someone here would know what I'm talking about.

There was a manga about rapping zombies posted at one point, maybe a few years ago when the zombie boom hadn't yet given way to the isekai boom, where...it's really hazy to me now, but I think that like, the MC and his friend or dad or whatever weren't infected, but everyone else was, and getting bitten turned you into a rapper, and you could blend in with the zombies not by shuffling aimlessly, but by rapping along with them? I don't know if it was ever translated, but even untranslated it was hilarious.

Nipponophile
Apr 8, 2009
No translations, but this is what you're looking for.

https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=141263

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
That's the one, thanks!

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Gamers (one of the funniest comedy of manners you'll ever see, just don't let the first episode fool you with its setup. It's a fakeout)

Rascal Does not dream of Bunny Girl Senpai. (Actually a really good character-driven show, and lets the protagonists HAVE a relationship rather than a will-they-won't-they thing)

Going to second both of these recommendations as over the last month or so I watched both for the first time and enjoyed every moment of it.

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

Willsun posted:

I haven't dived into a good romance/drama anime in a super long time and I'm getting cravings. My favorite was Lovely Complex from way back in 2007 because the couple in it had good chemistry and I liked how their relationship was based on being super rad with each other. Honey and Clover was super cool too because it was in the josei genre geared toward college and post high school life.

If anyone knows of any sorta recent recommendations for romance or romcoms to throw my way, I'd appreciate it.

Wotakoi: Love is Hard For an Otaku, and Recovery of an MMO Junkie were both great.

And yeah, for manga Please Love Useless Me is excellent.

a kitten fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Mar 26, 2019

Mentat Radnor
Apr 24, 2008

~Water flowers every day~

Willsun posted:

If anyone knows of any sorta recent recommendations for romance or romcoms to throw my way, I'd appreciate it.

Seconding the recs above for Ore Monogatari, Paradise Kiss, Spice and Wolf. I still need to watch Bloom Into You, but it was on a lot of ADTRW posters' top 5 lists for 2018 so it's probably great.

I'll just add two more to the pile:

Toradora - Less comedy and more melodrama, but good characters make for an enjoyable high school romance. Ninja edit - you said recent and this is from 2009, whoops :corsair:

Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun - All comedy, but the laughs are built upon the characters' romantic feelings for each other (plus some great jokes and insight into being a manga author). Hilarious show.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
Ore Monogatari has both the pretty-boy best friend character laugh like a dork straight up in the first episode...



... and an extremely funny and charming MC who's basically a fountain of gifs/webms


I cannot recommend it enough.

e: One more!


Seriously though, great romantic anime.

Wark Say fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 26, 2019

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Hunt11 posted:

Going to second both of these recommendations as over the last month or so I watched both for the first time and enjoyed every moment of it.

What'd you think of episode ~6~? :allears:

I'm actually rewatching Gamers myself and just saw that one. It's one of my favourite anime episodes, full-stop. Are there any other anime series that pull the kind of misunderstandings Gamers does in such a finely-honed manner?

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

Neddy Seagoon posted:

What'd you think of episode ~6~? :allears:

I'm actually rewatching Gamers myself and just saw that one. It's one of my favourite anime episodes, full-stop. Are there any other anime series that pull the kind of misunderstandings Gamers does in such a finely-honed manner?

You mean besides the best thing ever?

cogito ergo incommo
Apr 2, 2010

Endorph posted:

College-set:
Nodame Cantabile (Solid romcom, built around classical music with some jokes built around classical music but it does a decent job introducing classical music if you don't know it)

Aside from the Anime and Manga, there's a fantastic live action version of this too if you can find it.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

cogito ergo incommo posted:

Aside from the Anime and Manga, there's a fantastic live action version of this too if you can find it.
Oh, is that subbed?

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
AFAIR, it was even in Crunchyroll.

e: Confirmed! The 11 episodes for the Dorama are there.

Wark Say fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 27, 2019

cogito ergo incommo
Apr 2, 2010

Endorph posted:

Oh, is that subbed?

Yes. The eleven tv episodes, two specials and two movies were all subbed. You'll have to search for them though, cause when I googled them just now the website where I got them was down. At least for the specials and movies not on crunchyroll, I guess.

There's also a second live action version from 2014 I've just found called Cantabile Tomorrow/Naeil's Cantabile. Made in South Korea. I'll have to check it out.



Also while I'm here spruiking one great live action series, here's another:
Great Teacher Onizuka.
There are two versions of this.
One from 1998/99 which was a season and a movie that I remember liking at the time but it's been at least a decade and a half since I last saw them.
And a remake which was made in 2012/14. two seasons and specials, the first remakes the original manga in a vague sort of way, 5 specials where he goes to Taiwan for reasons and a second season vaguely remakes the spinoff manga where he goes back to his hometown.
Its really amazing series that captures a lot of what made the manga fun in a more modern setting.
And its on crunchyroll too: https://www.crunchyroll.com/gto

cogito ergo incommo fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Mar 27, 2019

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


The wiki is down, though that’s probably been posted already

Willsun
Dec 9, 2006

I willed too hard again...
First of all, thanks for everyone's recommendations.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

if you somehow haven't seen Ore Monogatari yet get on that

Thanks for this, I am REALLY enjoying this right now and I almost want to stop after episode 3 because of how perfect it is. I'm really enjoying this dynamic because it's not typical stuff I see, like Takeo being a giant dummy but not like outright braindead, and Suna being cool but not one-dimensional.

AnoHito posted:

Golden Time

I actually gave up on this a long time ago. I think I just got really sick of things done by Key where someone almost always has to have amnesia, and it doesn't help that the main guy is super milquetoast.

Endorph posted:

Nodame Cantabile (Solid romcom, built around classical music with some jokes built around classical music but it does a decent job introducing classical music if you don't know it)

I finished watching this a long time ago but somehow I remember so less about it and remember that the more I watched, the more I was just going through the motions and just wanted to hear whatever pieces they have featured. I was just kind of let down because I really wanted to like it since I played in orchestras semi-seriously in high school and it brings back a lot of good memories, but Nodame's edging into the braindead character territory and I don't remember much of a spark in the relationship between the two. Like Chiaki was still his angry self even after the two technically got together and there were more bad chemistry between them than good.

Captain Invictus posted:

Paradise kiss

If manga is possible for you, maybe pick up lovely complex and the short sequel to it, and the newer series by the same author which imo is wayyyy better than lovely complex about a 30-something office lady called Please Love the Useless Me, it's hilarious and really heartfelt too

I tried Paradise Kiss a long time ago too but it just mostly weirded me out and I gave up. I should try it again though because I was a lot younger back then.

Also thank you for telling me the Lovely Complex author made something else! I'm loving it a lot and it's perfect, but the one thing nagging me is that reading it would ruin me if this ever came out as an anime and I'm spoiled for the whole thing. If there's even a whiff of this getting an anime adaptation, please tell me now and I'll stop.

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Gamers (one of the funniest comedy of manners you'll ever see, just don't let the first episode fool you with its setup. It's a fakeout)

Rascal Does not dream of Bunny Girl Senpai. (Actually a really good character-driven show, and lets the protagonists HAVE a relationship rather than a will-they-won't-they thing)

I'm skeptically reserved after reading the general blurb about these two things. With Gamers I'm not too hot on the thousands of series revolving around X club in a Japanese high school. With Rascal I don't think I'm that into supernatural/fantasy stuff in terms of a romcom.

Mentat Radnor posted:

Seconding the recs above for Ore Monogatari, Paradise Kiss, Spice and Wolf. I still need to watch Bloom Into You, but it was on a lot of ADTRW posters' top 5 lists for 2018 so it's probably great.

I'll just add two more to the pile:

Toradora - Less comedy and more melodrama, but good characters make for an enjoyable high school romance. Ninja edit - you said recent and this is from 2009, whoops :corsair:

Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun - All comedy, but the laughs are built upon the characters' romantic feelings for each other (plus some great jokes and insight into being a manga author). Hilarious show.

I need more input about Bloom Into You, because it sounds interesting but I can only take so much high school fluff at a time. Nozaki sounds like a good time and I might check that out soon.

Toradora I watched when it was coming out and I enjoyed it despite Kugimiya Rie's usual tsundere abuse characters.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"
Again; the first episode of Gamers is a fakeout. Everything and anyone involved with that club, aside from Karin Tendo, has NOTHING to do with the series proper.

Rascal's supernatural elements... mostly aren't. It's a series of multi-episodic arcs, each around a different girl's problem, and they use a single tweak to reality to frame a story about a normal personal problem a teenager would face.

Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Mar 28, 2019

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC

Willsun posted:

I need more input about Bloom Into You, because it sounds interesting but I can only take so much high school fluff at a time.

I wouldn't really call it fluff. More... introspective?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

yea bloom isnt fluffy at all. There's moments of the characters enjoying each other's company and stuff but it's a romantic drama, not a romantic comedy.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
Please Love the Useless Me probably won't ever get an anime since it's completed, and anime adaptations of manga are usually to promote that manga while it's running. I'd love an anime version don't get me wrong, but a whoooooole lot of manga series don't get animes made for them, so just enjoy a manga if you like it, and hey, if it gets an anime at some point, so much the better. I don't remember if lovely complex ever actually reached the end of the manga, I think it stopped a bit before the proper ending? Same with Zatch Bell, I recall that ended like two entire arcs prior to the actual ending and then had a quick scene ending on a freeze frame from the actual for real final arc lol

Edit: also not all anime adaptations are good, My Monster Secret(jitsu wa watashi wa) is one of my favorite romcoms ever and the anime dropped the ball on it almost entirely, it was not good at all. I would recommend the manga of that one though, it's a high school romcom but it is fun as hell once the author gets into a rhythm, the romance is good and most importantly for me for a long-running romcom, (minor spoilers) the series does not end when they get together

Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Mar 28, 2019

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747
so i'm looking for dumb OVAs/movies. the gorier and more titty-filled the better.

things i've already seen that fit and at least mildly owned:

Ninja Scroll
Karas
Bio-Booster Armor Guyver
Mad Bull 34
Violence Jack
Devilman
Mazinkaiser SKL
Megazone 23
Strait Jacket
Detonator Orgun
Crying Freeman
the first Urotsukidoji movie
Hellsing Ultimate
Genocyber
MD Geist
Armitage III
Baoh
Black Magic M-66
Metal Skin Panic MADOX-01
Angel Cop
Bio Hunter
Hades Project Zeorymer
Baki
the Highlander anime
Demon City Shinjuku
Cyber City Oedo 808
both Vampire Hunter D movies

things that were not to my taste:

Mnemosyne
Wicked City
Kite
Urotsukidoji past the first one
Mezzo Forte
Blood Reign: Curse of the Yoma
Ninja Resurrection
Psychic Wars

i am genuinely considering the possibility that i have seen everything in this niche worth seeing and then some.

as you can see i am not prudish about content beyond kind of not liking rape or really gross sex stuff, and i can tolerate both in this context, just... not preferred, the less the better. i am also fairly not discerning about quality.

WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Mar 28, 2019

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

so i'm looking for dumb OVAs/movies. the gorier and more titty-filled the better.

things i've already seen that fit and at least mildly owned:

Ninja Scroll
Karas
Bio-Booster Armor Guyver
Mad Bull 34
Violence Jack
Devilman
Mazinkaiser SKL
Megazone 23
Strait Jacket
Detonator Orgun
Crying Freeman
the first Urotsukidoji movie
Hellsing Ultimate
Genocyber
MD Geist
Armitage III
Baoh
Black Magic M-66
Metal Skin Panic MADOX-01
Angel Cop
Bio Hunter
Hades Project Zeorymer
Baki
the Highlander anime
Demon City Shinjuku
Cyber City Oedo 808
both Vampire Hunter D movies

things that were not to my taste:

Mnemosyne
Wicked City
Kite
Urotsukidoji past the first one
Mezzo Forte
Blood Reign: Curse of the Yoma
Ninja Resurrection
Psychic Wars

i am genuinely considering the possibility that i have seen everything in this niche worth seeing and then some.

as you can see i am not prudish about content beyond kind of not liking rape or really gross sex stuff, and i can tolerate both in this context, just... not preferred, the less the better. i am also fairly not discerning about quality.

How the gently caress have you not seen Dead Leaves yet? Go watch Dead Leaves. Also check out the total Alien knockoff that is Lily C.A.T.

Also on a side-note; holy poo poo, there's someone else who has actually seen and liked Karas :stare::hf::stare:. I will also swear blind that Strait Jacket is the script draft for a 13 or 26-epsiode series condensed into a movie.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

so i'm looking for dumb OVAs/movies. the gorier and more titty-filled the better.

things i've already seen that fit and at least mildly owned:

Ninja Scroll
Karas
Bio-Booster Armor Guyver
Mad Bull 34
Violence Jack
Devilman
Mazinkaiser SKL
Megazone 23
Strait Jacket
Detonator Orgun
Crying Freeman
the first Urotsukidoji movie
Hellsing Ultimate
Genocyber
MD Geist
Armitage III
Baoh
Black Magic M-66
Metal Skin Panic MADOX-01
Angel Cop
Bio Hunter
Hades Project Zeorymer
Baki
the Highlander anime
Demon City Shinjuku
Cyber City Oedo 808
both Vampire Hunter D movies

things that were not to my taste:

Mnemosyne
Wicked City
Kite
Urotsukidoji past the first one
Mezzo Forte
Blood Reign: Curse of the Yoma
Ninja Resurrection
Psychic Wars

i am genuinely considering the possibility that i have seen everything in this niche worth seeing and then some.

as you can see i am not prudish about content beyond kind of not liking rape or really gross sex stuff, and i can tolerate both in this context, just... not preferred, the less the better. i am also fairly not discerning about quality.

Another Kawajiri show from the same era, Goku: Midnight Eye and you could try the 90's X movie

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

so i'm looking for dumb OVAs/movies. the gorier and more titty-filled the better.

things i've already seen that fit and at least mildly owned:

Ninja Scroll
Karas
Bio-Booster Armor Guyver
Mad Bull 34
Violence Jack
Devilman
Mazinkaiser SKL
Megazone 23
Strait Jacket
Detonator Orgun
Crying Freeman
the first Urotsukidoji movie
Hellsing Ultimate
Genocyber
MD Geist
Armitage III
Baoh
Black Magic M-66
Metal Skin Panic MADOX-01
Angel Cop
Bio Hunter
Hades Project Zeorymer
Baki
the Highlander anime
Demon City Shinjuku
Cyber City Oedo 808
both Vampire Hunter D movies

things that were not to my taste:

Mnemosyne
Wicked City
Kite
Urotsukidoji past the first one
Mezzo Forte
Blood Reign: Curse of the Yoma
Ninja Resurrection
Psychic Wars

i am genuinely considering the possibility that i have seen everything in this niche worth seeing and then some.

as you can see i am not prudish about content beyond kind of not liking rape or really gross sex stuff, and i can tolerate both in this context, just... not preferred, the less the better. i am also fairly not discerning about quality.

the Kikoushi Enma ova (not the original tv series or the comedy series)
murder princess
riding bean
cyborg vs devilman
interlude (this one makes very little sense but hey)
Aru Zombie Shoujo no Sainan
Aachi wa Ssipak
Seoul-yeok

its a series but check out cobra too, great dumb action. like bond in space

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Davincie posted:

the Kikoushi Enma ova (not the original tv series or the comedy series)
murder princess
riding bean
cyborg vs devilman
interlude (this one makes very little sense but hey)
Aru Zombie Shoujo no Sainan
Aachi wa Ssipak
Seoul-yeok

its a series but check out cobra too, great dumb action. like bond in space

Oh, that reminds me of another; Gunsmith Cats.

Julias
Jun 24, 2012

Strum in a harmonizing quartet
I want to cause a revolution

What can I do? My savage
nature is beyond wild

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

so i'm looking for dumb OVAs/movies. the gorier and more titty-filled the better.

things i've already seen that fit and at least mildly owned:

Ninja Scroll
Karas
Bio-Booster Armor Guyver
Mad Bull 34
Violence Jack
Devilman
Mazinkaiser SKL
Megazone 23
Strait Jacket
Detonator Orgun
Crying Freeman
the first Urotsukidoji movie
Hellsing Ultimate
Genocyber
MD Geist
Armitage III
Baoh
Black Magic M-66
Metal Skin Panic MADOX-01
Angel Cop
Bio Hunter
Hades Project Zeorymer
Baki
the Highlander anime
Demon City Shinjuku
Cyber City Oedo 808
both Vampire Hunter D movies

things that were not to my taste:

Mnemosyne
Wicked City
Kite
Urotsukidoji past the first one
Mezzo Forte
Blood Reign: Curse of the Yoma
Ninja Resurrection
Psychic Wars

i am genuinely considering the possibility that i have seen everything in this niche worth seeing and then some.

as you can see i am not prudish about content beyond kind of not liking rape or really gross sex stuff, and i can tolerate both in this context, just... not preferred, the less the better. i am also fairly not discerning about quality.

Seconding Dead Leaves as a really good choice, also Hell Target (this one is pretty awful)

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Oh yeah the Golgo 13 movie too

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Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
Dead Leaves is fantastic. If not for P&SwG Imaishi's career would basically be all downhill from there.

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