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Can I just take a moment to say that it’s really neat that we have an openly gay presidential candidate and his sexuality is like 3rd or 4th on the “did you know” list about him?
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Mar 29, 2019 13:18
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Can I just take a moment to say that it’s really neat that we have an openly gay presidential candidate and his sexuality is like 3rd or 4th on the “did you know” list about him? tbf it's already implied by "attended Oxford"
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Mar 29, 2019 13:25
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Which one is "did you know how cool his dogs are"
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Mar 29, 2019 13:27
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FAUXTON posted:Which one is "did you know how cool his dogs are" 
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Mar 29, 2019 13:28
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FAUXTON posted:Which one is "did you know how cool his dogs are" 3, but only to avoid offending catwomen.
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Mar 29, 2019 13:28
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:tbf it's already implied by "attended Oxford" Didn't know Billy Clinton swung both ways 
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Mar 29, 2019 13:29
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Can I just take a moment to say that it’s really neat that we have an openly gay presidential candidate and his sexuality is like 3rd or 4th on the “did you know” list about him? It helps that him and his husband have the kind of relationship absolutely everybody wants in life and it's cute as gently caress. https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1111034433430278145?s=19
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Mar 29, 2019 13:30
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Is that the one with one eye?
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Mar 29, 2019 13:34
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FAUXTON posted:Is that the one with one eye? crenshaw's a secret racist buttigieg woo momvotes with piano playing and language learning
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Mar 29, 2019 13:41
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:crenshaw's a secret racist No I mean his dog. One of their dogs has one eye. E: it is not the one eyed dog - https://twitter.com/firstdogsSB/status/1108182745673396224
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Mar 29, 2019 13:45
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I really like him. I threw some money his way back when he needed enough donors to get on the debate stage. D&D already hates him though because he said he's not a fan of Chelsea Manning and doesn't think she should have had her sentenced commuted. Not surprising considering he's an intel reservist. IDK how much opinions changed around here, but I still stand by the belief that she just leaked poo poo without considering what she was leaking because she was pissed off about her command and she's not the noble Daniel Ellsberg type leaker people make her out to be. Doesn't mean I think the way she was treated in custody was okay, but she still sucks and so long as a pol doesn't misgender her or start talking about how she needs to be given a death sentence, idgaf.
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Mar 29, 2019 13:55
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Handsome Ralph posted:I really like him. I threw some money his way back when he needed enough donors to get on the debate stage. I feel the same way about her. I think she was victimized and manipulated by Julian Assange, and then significantly mistreated by the US government. She should have probably never been allowed access to classified information, but that said, I’m glad she was released from prison and hope that she can get on with her life without snuggling up to the alt-right (no seriously WTF was that) or intimating suicidal threats on twitter.
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Mar 29, 2019 14:04
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Engh, I'm pretty much if the same opinion as to her general purity of intentions or whatever, but I absolutely think she should have had her sentence commuted how she was treated while in custody before and during her trial, and it is absolutely a red flag to me that he has reservations about that. Leaving aside the entire Obama war on leakers and whether her sentence was even just in the first place.
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Mar 29, 2019 14:08
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Handsome Ralph posted:I really like him. I threw some money his way back when he needed enough donors to get on the debate stage. If anything, Snowden showed that hey, maybe you don't need to leak a bunch of unredacted intelligence sources to the world to prove your point. So by every modern measure, Manning appears much worse than she did back in 2009.
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Mar 29, 2019 14:09
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psydude posted:If anything, Snowden showed that hey, maybe you don't need to leak a bunch of unredacted intelligence sources to the world to prove your point. So by every modern measure, Manning appears much worse than she did back in 2009. Sure, but they'll throw him into an even darker and blacker hole if they ever get ahold of him.
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Mar 29, 2019 14:13
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Crakkerjakk posted:Sure, but they'll throw him into an even darker and blacker hole if they ever get ahold of him. Snowden did more far more damage to the US diplomatically/politically than Manning ever did, but Manning exposed sources and put people's lives at risk. The war itself at that point was incredibly unpopular so the actual political consequences were limited. I'm not trying to make a point, just pointing out that the impact of their crimes was different.
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Mar 29, 2019 14:22
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Neither were crimes
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Mar 29, 2019 14:25
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Mar 29, 2019 14:27
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I seriously have doubts that all the info Manning released needed to be classified, the IC way way way overclassifies things. And hey, she revealed war crimes that would never have made the light of day. And to that that she is someone who def had issues and got thrown under the bus repeatedly by her command. (Why did the OIC/NCOIC for her SCIF not get in trouble for allowing freaking personal recording devices into the SCIF?!?!)
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Mar 29, 2019 14:35
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"Treatment in custody" complaints are a little rich. She was suicidal as far back as Iraq. Imagine the hell to pay and conspiracy theories if she'd managed to off herself in custody. She's also not someone who would do well in genpop. That said she's back in custody for refusing to testify about Wikileaks despite an immunity deal.
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Mar 29, 2019 14:53
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Super not a fan of how she did the leaking by making GBS threads everything out everywhere and "lol sucks to be you if you were a source". For the current confinement she's refusing to testify because she wants it to be public and is refusing until it is. Given what's happened to her I'm not going to look down on that kind of desire. To say she has justified trust issues with how she'll be treated behind closed doors is a bit of an understatement.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:13
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Casimir Radon posted:"Treatment in custody" complaints are a little rich. She was suicidal as far back as Iraq. Gee.....serving in a war zone fucks with people's mental health. Who knew?!
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Mar 29, 2019 15:14
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Thalantos posted:Gee.....serving in a war zone fucks with people's mental health.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:16
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Casimir Radon posted:So she shouldn't have been on suicide watch then? Also, Manning has FAS and has always been loony. Suicide watch in the military might prevent self harm in the short term but that poo poo only causes mental harm. Maybe the us shouldn't be trying to fight multiple wars requring intensive manpower to be executed properly, while trying to do it without properly expanding the military?
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Mar 29, 2019 15:24
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What about the system that let her enlist? Why isn't her recruiter in trouble for letting someone unqualified to enlist do so?
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Mar 29, 2019 15:26
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Thalantos posted:What about the system that let her enlist? Why isn't her recruiter in trouble for letting someone unqualified to enlist do so? surge.txt Like I don't disagree with any of what you're saying, but the idea that she doesn't have SOME responsibility for her actions is a bit much.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:28
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Great topics all, thanks for bringing them up, just a reminder to be civil discussing them
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Mar 29, 2019 15:33
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Handsome Ralph posted:surge.txt Some, sure. But the amount of time spent in pre-trial confinement, especially combined with the inability of anyone to be able to argue public interest justification (exposing war crimes) or the inability to argue that a bunch of stuff is overclassified, seems like more than enough to me.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:38
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Handsome Ralph posted:surge.txt I wouldn't say that. We're all responsible for our own actions. My main issue is that no one else seems to be held accountable. There were tons of spots/issues during her military career where SOMEONE should have realized she was not a good fit for military service. But the brass don't care, they just want warm boots on ground. And if some of those folks shouldn't be there and were allowed to be there anyway and then things go wonky, it is NOT all the fault of that one person.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:40
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Thalantos posted:I wouldn't say that. We're all responsible for our own actions. Yeah, agreed with this. Same with the bergdahl poo poo. All the people that hosed up leading up to the crisis point walk, all the hate and consequences drop on the poor dumb poo poo that made a really stupid decision. But they are usually some dumb loving teenager and it's not like it's unexpected that dumb teenagers do stupid poo poo unless competently supervised.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:44
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https://twitter.com/matt_motta/status/1111253892304650240?s=20 Conservatives: I will eat every antibiotic on Earth and no one can stop me.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:49
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Thalantos posted:I wouldn't say that. We're all responsible for our own actions. I completely agree with you. Wasn't saying you necessarily think she doesn't hold some responsibility, but you get the D&D leftists who treat it as if she's infallible for any of her actions, and it's a bit grating. One can think she's not entirely to blame and got turbofucked when she shouldn't have while also maintaining the position that she's not without fault. The fact we never saw any brass or DoD officials catch serious poo poo for what happened with her, Bergdhal or Bales showed that the government only gave a poo poo about the symptoms and not the underlying problem with carefree recruiting, etc.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:51
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Did she actually expose any war crimes? Like actual war crimes not what d&d thinks are war crimes? Because the Apache thing wasn't a war crime and we can argue about whether it should be but you don't get to make an argument that you're committing a crime to expose crimes when they're not actual crimes.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:52
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The UK parliament voted against May's Brexit deal, the third time she offered it up. Edit: From here her options are find a way to allow a hard Brexit, hold another referendum, or hold a general election where the Tories probably lose seats.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:54
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That's being pendantic. The apache incident would be considered a war crime in a world that made sense. And how can we, as a society, even debate it, when if the DOD had their way none of us would know it even happened, and we'd go to prison if we did talk about it for "violating security".
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Mar 29, 2019 15:56
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Jarmak posted:Did she actually expose any war crimes? Like actual war crimes not what d&d thinks are war crimes? Hot Take: What pissed me off most about that video is that Assange editorialized the gently caress out of it, and then conveniently released the full video after the edited one was out for a day or two. Also the only media person who called him out on it that wasn't a bootlicker was Stephen Colbert.
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Mar 29, 2019 15:59
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Thalantos posted:That's being pendantic. The apache incident would be considered a war crime in a world that made sense. Lol you don't get to dump classified info on completely legal actions because you disagree and you want to spark a policy debate. The jump from "thing I don't like" to "War Crime(tm)" is not pedantic it's literally the point of arguing she shouldn't be held responsible because she exposed crimes. That's why you and others keep using the term.
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Mar 29, 2019 16:03
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D&D: Chelsea is the mostest smartest mostest good mostest honorable person that ever was and should be president. *Chelsea hangs out with Nazis then cries when she gets called out on it.
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Mar 29, 2019 16:04
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Jarmak posted:Lol you don't get to dump classified info on completely legal actions because you disagree and you want to spark a policy debate. Its unethical as gently caress and if I don't know what to tell you if you don't think we should fix legal but evil things. Casimir Radon posted:D&D: Chelsea is the mostest smartest mostest good mostest honorable person that ever was and should be president. Judge me not by my actions, nor by the company I keep, but by what I tell you about myself.
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Mar 29, 2019 16:06
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Please don't tell me why I'm using terms. The US military has a long and sordid history of covering up their illegal, immoral and heinous actions under the guise of national security.
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Mar 29, 2019 16:10
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