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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Canada is my white whale. I'm seeing how it could be good in theory. Once you get plant woods and hockey rinks you can settle a bunch of garbage land make it pretty and set up parks without the faith cost. I just won my first religious victory with the new expansion....with Canada? My starting position would have been garbage for anyone else, but being able to farm tundra it worked (plus a volcano that made the land more fertile early gave me a huge early boost to my growth). I basically had a bit skinny empire that ran along the northern part of the continent then down the sloping east coast. I had 3 cities that France and Kongo settled next to me rebel and then come over to my side, and eventually I settled a thing on the west coast just to make a holy site and cut down on missionary travel time (then eventually another one on the second continent once I had a foothold). An apostle every other turn plus the governor with promotions to give them instant double promotions was just unstoppable. I found it nice to not have to worry about surprise wars, my only battles the entire game were against barbarians. If I hadn't done religion, I could have easily finished with culture or diplomacy instead...I just realized how much faith I was generating from my choice of beliefs at one point and decided that was probably going to be easier and faster (though the Aztecs were a pain, I converted their entire civ twice, and each time a turn later 15,000 Apostles from their seemingly dead religion would appear). Canada feels like one of those civs that just wants to avoid war, which is fine with me, and if you can keep everyone happy you shouldn't really have a hard time making a culture victory. Religion was a fluke because of a perfect storm of starting position and beliefs, my direct neighbor being Kongo and France being an easy first conversion target.
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Mar 26, 2019 16:00
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It's not that Canada is absolutely poo poo and ruins the game, it's just that they don't offer anything that other civs don't already do better.
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Mar 26, 2019 16:10
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Yeah if I'm deliberately going for culture, I'm picking France. If I want science, I'm going Sweden or something. Canada just sort of does them all ok, which admittedly worked out well when I had to audible to another win con mid game.
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Mar 26, 2019 16:17
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Taear posted:It's not that Canada is absolutely poo poo and ruins the game, it's just that they don't offer anything that other civs don't already do better. I remember reading a rant about how Venice in Civ5 was objectively worse than a blank civ with literally zero abilities. He was right, the various perks Venice gets do in no way make up for never getting a 2nd real city, but also wrong, in that by removing a large amount of options, Venice railroads players into making good choices. It's still a fan favorite and many people got their first Deity win with Venice. It's interesting.
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Mar 26, 2019 16:57
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Serephina posted:I remember reading a rant about how Venice in Civ5 was objectively worse than a blank civ with literally zero abilities. He was right, the various perks Venice gets do in no way make up for never getting a 2nd real city, but also wrong, in that by removing a large amount of options, Venice railroads players into making good choices. It's still a fan favorite and many people got their first Deity win with Venice. Venice was a good thing to have in the game just because it was the one civ with a truly different playstyle. Would've been nice if it had had a few balance passes or if the AI knew how to play as them, but this is Firaxis we're talking about here.
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Mar 26, 2019 17:02
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Shh, don't start talking about factions with unique playstyles, next you'll be telling people go to play the Endless series you utter degenerate.
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Mar 26, 2019 17:06
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I'm more of a Paradox gamer these days.
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Mar 26, 2019 17:08
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Taear posted:CivFanatics now ranks it lower than Georgia, who everyone seemed to universally agree was the worst civ. Uhh, what's their beef with Georgia? Double envoys and infinite golden ages are both the poo poo.
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Mar 26, 2019 20:02
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Uhh, what's their beef with Georgia? Double envoys and infinite golden ages are both the poo poo. CivFanatics angles towards "winning the game as fast as possible" so if your civ is good at that - like Hungary - then they consider it really good. But if your Civ just has sort of....I dunno how to say it other than 'flavour' abilities that are nice but aren't game winning then they really don't rate you. Serephina posted:I remember reading a rant about how Venice in Civ5 was objectively worse than a blank civ with literally zero abilities. He was right, the various perks Venice gets do in no way make up for never getting a 2nd real city, but also wrong, in that by removing a large amount of options, Venice railroads players into making good choices. It's still a fan favorite and many people got their first Deity win with Venice. There's a huge difference between a civ that's got unique mechanics like Venice and forces a specific playstyle and one where the playstyle is "if you're near some poo poo tiles they're a bit better than before but still mostly poo poo". Taear fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 26, 2019 |
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Mar 26, 2019 20:20
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Any tile Venice is on is a poo poo tile
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Mar 26, 2019 20:43
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^^^^you're a poo poo tileTaear posted:CivFanatics angles towards "winning the game as fast as possible" so if your civ is good at that - like Hungary - then they consider it really good. But if your Civ just has sort of....I dunno how to say it other than 'flavour' abilities that are nice but aren't game winning then they really don't rate you. They do seem to like the Cree, who don't have any killer apps per se (compare their poo poo to Persia) but do have a lot of cool stuff that's fun to use. The Cree are still one of my favorite civs. They should make Canada do good cool things instead of mediocre cool things, like the Cree. How about Canada gets a bunch of free tundra and snow whenever you settle near it, and all tundra and snow gets +1 appeal so you can settle more national parks? And give me a free diplo victory point when I research conservation or civil service or whatever.
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Mar 26, 2019 21:59
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Ragnar34 posted:They do seem to like the Cree, who don't have any killer apps per se (compare their poo poo to Persia) but do have a lot of cool stuff that's fun to use. Cree bonuses come into play as soon as you get a trader, and you get one free with Pottery, possibly 5 turns from game start, unique improvement is also solid throughout the game. So you just use those and snowball into prosperity from early era, compared to Canada that has surprise war protection and nothing else worthwhile until industrial era (sure they can build farms in the tundra, but the tundra output is still bad). Even getting a surprise war isn't too bad if you can win and turn those 150 grievances into 3-4 taken cities.
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Mar 26, 2019 22:38
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Canada's strength is that they don't need to compete for a religion and human players can't get the drop on you. It's actual advantages are kind of invisible and more about reliability, getting pushed into the tundra is salvageable. But softening bad outcomes isn't a sexy ability. I think they "do more" than Georgia. Which if you ask me basically doesn't have abilities at all.
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Mar 26, 2019 22:42
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Pyromancer posted:Cree bonuses come into play as soon as you get a trader, and you get one free with Pottery, possibly 5 turns from game start, unique improvement is also solid throughout the game. So you just use those and snowball into prosperity from early era, compared to Canada that has surprise war protection and nothing else worthwhile until industrial era (sure they can build farms in the tundra, but the tundra output is still bad). Even getting a surprise war isn't too bad if you can win and turn those 150 grievances into 3-4 taken cities. Yea, they start off doing their stuff which means it's easy to get a big win early with them. It's a viewpoint that's anathema to me, I tend not to try to be winning really early, I just want to found my civilization and have it look pretty. But it says a lot to me that Sumer is their strongest civ, absolutely the most effective at early game wins.
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Mar 27, 2019 10:37
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It's not just about "winning the game early", it's the fact that early advantages build into late game advantages. The sooner you get a benefit, the sooner you can leverage it into more stuff, which in turn you can leverage into even more stuff, and so on. Civilization has pretty much always operated on this principle, which is why late game advantages are typically not seen as being as valuable as early game advantages, all else being equal. This is often referred to as "snowballing". It's something that's inherent to a strategy game, which inevitably cannot have too many "catch-up" mechanics because they often conflict with rewarding good planning. If you've played well for the first 50 turns it can feel lame to have another Civ artificially boosted up to your level, especially if they didn't have the resources or planning that you had. It makes you question what the point of having a strategy and acquiring resources is if it can't be leveraged into an obvious advantage (this is my primary problem with Civ V, incidentally)? There's a little more to it than that when it comes to like Georgia though. Especially when playing at higher difficulties, both religion and city-states can be seen as unreliable systems. Georgia relies on having a religion, but you're not guaranteed a religion and Georgia doesn't have anything that helps you get it before others. Georgia has city-state bonuses, but city-state selection can be somewhat random and the advantages you get from them can vary greatly from game to game. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 16:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGvjflXi3uE They're removing science and culture yields from pillaging (except for Norway) and halving the pillage yield modifiers from policies, and upgrading units is being made more expensive. Also a bunch of climate change/disaster stuff and some leader/civ changes. Upgrade costs being nerfed seems long overdue, and should help the AI halfway resemble a threat later on. Pillaging being hilariously overpowered was funny, but obviously should be fixed. Anyone know if the base game and R&F will get an update or just GS?
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Mar 29, 2019 15:26
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Staltran posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGvjflXi3uE I can't get my head around them choosing to do that announcement as a video instead of actual regular patch notes. Why??
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Mar 29, 2019 16:03
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Taear posted:I can't get my head around them choosing to do that announcement as a video instead of actual regular patch notes. Why?? I'm sure there will be patch notes when the patch is released.
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Mar 29, 2019 16:06
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Aww man, Maori nerf makes me sad. It makes sense, but I was having fun with them.
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Mar 29, 2019 16:16
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I'm on phone what is actually in the patch???
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Mar 29, 2019 16:17
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Taear posted:I can't get my head around them choosing to do that announcement as a video instead of actual regular patch notes. Why?? welcome to 2019, it is awful
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Mar 29, 2019 16:20
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angry old man screams at cloud
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Mar 29, 2019 16:42
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Uhh please phrase your memes in the form of a gif so I can understand it
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Mar 29, 2019 16:43
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I'm on phone what is actually in the patch??? More comprehensive list than what was mentioned before:
They're also adding updates that aren't exclusive to the new expansion....
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Mar 29, 2019 16:45
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Considering how good pillaging science/culture was I think that actually makes Norway quite strong. The climate change buffing storms a lot more was something I'd already done in a personal tweaks mod, so I obviously support that.
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Mar 29, 2019 16:52
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The Climate Change tweaks all sound good. Not as good as they could be, but good.
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Mar 29, 2019 16:56
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Magil Zeal posted:Considering how good pillaging science/culture was I think that actually makes Norway quite strong. The climate change buffing storms a lot more was something I'd already done in a personal tweaks mod, so I obviously support that. I think the text shown also says Norway gets science/culture in addition to gold, so it will be even stronger. K'm on mobile now so can't quite make out the text to confirm but I'm pretty sure.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:07
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Staltran posted:I think the text shown also says Norway gets science/culture in addition to gold, so it will be even stronger. K'm on mobile now so can't quite make out the text to confirm but I'm pretty sure. Text says "science in addition to gold from mines" and "culture in addition to faith from quarries, camps, pastures and plantations." Dunno if that means they stripped the science/culture from pillaging districts entirely, or if that's still available to everyone.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:14
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Can military engineers do automated railroads yet?
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Mar 29, 2019 17:22
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Chichevache posted:Can military engineers do automated railroads yet? I wouldn't expect this anytime soon, it took Firaxis two expansions to get to the production queue. As much as I want this feature. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Mar 29, 2019 |
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Mar 29, 2019 17:25
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Wow these are great changes.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:37
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I really don't like the unit upgrade nerf; upgrading units already costs a lot as you go up the tree. Fix the AI to keep units close to home and encourage them to upgrade when able, instead of making it even more obnoxious to keep old units around.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:44
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Aerdan posted:I really don't like the unit upgrade nerf; upgrading units already costs a lot as you go up the tree. Fix the AI to keep units close to home and encourage them to upgrade when able, instead of making it even more obnoxious to keep old units around. Upgrading units has been a lot better than straight-up building new units for quite a while, especially with the discount card.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:54
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China is no longer secretly OP and is now brazenly OP.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:57
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Nice to see them finally adding a World Builder feature. I'm sure that'll be especially nice for multiplayer sessions. Funny that they nerfed the chateau yet called it a buff, unless having 3+ wonders near a river is somehow going to be much easier.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:58
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That update sounds awesome.
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Mar 29, 2019 19:11
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So is this update live?
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Mar 29, 2019 20:59
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Magil Zeal posted:Upgrading units has been a lot better than straight-up building new units for quite a while, especially with the discount card. Honestly, I think upgrading should be better than production, simply from a usability perspective. The optimal strategy being "disband your army and rebuild it every upgrade" is a straight-up UX nightmare.
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Mar 29, 2019 21:12
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BaronVonVaderham posted:I just won my first religious victory with the new expansion....with Canada? My starting position would have been garbage for anyone else, but being able to farm tundra it worked (plus a volcano that made the land more fertile early gave me a huge early boost to my growth). I basically had a bit skinny empire that ran along the northern part of the continent then down the sloping east coast. I had 3 cities that France and Kongo settled next to me rebel and then come over to my side, and eventually I settled a thing on the west coast just to make a holy site and cut down on missionary travel time (then eventually another one on the second continent once I had a foothold). An apostle every other turn plus the governor with promotions to give them instant double promotions was just unstoppable. I won my first with Canada via science... but only because I couldn't get over the Diplo hump and get that 10th point. Set up the map to have more snow so I felt properly juiced and only had one war with a neighbor the whole game. And I like hockey personally so... lots of hockey culture.
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Mar 29, 2019 21:19
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Tom Tucker posted:So is this update live? It'll likely be a couple weeks, at least.
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Mar 29, 2019 21:41
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