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DACK FAYDEN posted:I literally went "so is that southern hemisphere or can I safely enjoy the word Southern" in my head, so thank you you shouldnt enjoy it in any case given that a massive proportion of the southern US pop is made up of former enslaved people who are very poor and cant simply move to the PNW and will suffer the most of all the people in the south who suffer from climate change
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Mar 29, 2019 16:26
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:if you click through the thread has maps lol cool
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Mar 29, 2019 16:28
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:you shouldnt enjoy it in any case given that a massive proportion of the southern US pop is made up of former enslaved people who are very poor and cant simply move to the PNW and will suffer the most of all the people in the south who suffer from climate change
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Mar 29, 2019 16:29
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bird with big dick posted:lol cool actually qwuite the opposite it gets hotter
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Mar 29, 2019 16:33
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i have a lot of doubts about ubi as noted, but i do think the "it'll just cause inflation and do nothing" is a piece of bootstrap propaganda that has taken hold without *that* clear a basis yeppppp whenever i talk to people irl about it they always bring this up, because it "seems obvious" in the same way that raising minimum wage only gets you $100 big macs also inflation is cool it makes student loan debts and credit card debts worth less and i'm not sitting on anywhere close to a large enough pile of money for me to care
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Mar 29, 2019 16:38
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Halloween Jack posted:Are people forgetting, again, that black Americans are concentrated in the Southeast? This is so insanely weird. people assume that black americans all fled the south or something, but in my experience the population is rapidly approaching 50/50
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Mar 29, 2019 16:43
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Serf posted:people assume that black americans all fled the south or something, but in my experience the population is rapidly approaching 50/50
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Mar 29, 2019 16:49
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Serf posted:people assume that black americans all fled the south or something, but in my experience the population is rapidly approaching 50/50 new orleans is 60% black, my hometown of baton rouge is 50% black - atlanta, the "black capital" is just over 50% black birmingham, alabama is over 60% black and people regularly advocate for erasing the entire state and yeah those are apparently all on the rise. the shitshow that the next census is gonna be is a real bummer because you just know they're gonna try and undercount all those people
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Mar 29, 2019 16:54
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:if you click through the thread has maps Me, 2039: Build the Wall on the Mason-Dixon Line!
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Mar 29, 2019 16:58
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a $1000 per adult ubi would do wonders in very rural, pretty poor places. i lived in a part of iowa where one school district was poor enough that the feds told the administration not to bother doing income verification, just give every kid free breakfast and lunch. they also provide breakfast and lunch during summer vacation so kids get at least a couple meals. in addition, there is a food backpack program for nights and weekends. the rural towns have been on a downward population trajectory since the end of ww2 and the rise of masively mechanized agriculture. A ubi would be massively beneficial for the lives of people in places with limited job options. I could survive pretty handsomely there on 2 grand a month between my wife and I (and have).
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Mar 29, 2019 17:03
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Eat This Glob posted:a $1000 per adult ubi would do wonders in very rural, pretty poor places. i lived in a part of iowa where one school district was poor enough that the feds told the administration not to bother doing income verification, just give every kid free breakfast and lunch. they also provide breakfast and lunch during summer vacation so kids get at least a couple meals. in addition, there is a food backpack program for nights and weekends. sure but that guaranteed $1000 more in our pockets would just translate to higher prices on goods and services to extract as much value as possible. so it could be good for a time, but eventually the market would adjust to make sure you don't actually have any material benefit
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Mar 29, 2019 17:09
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Serf posted:sure but that guaranteed $1000 more in our pockets would just translate to higher prices on goods and services to extract as much value as possible. so it could be good for a time, but eventually the market would adjust to make sure you don't actually have any material benefit This is why my proposal also delivers guns and ammo with the UBI
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Mar 29, 2019 17:10
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wait so the right wing memes about “hurr let’s flood the liberal coastal states” are comically inaccurate? owns bones.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:15
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Epic High Five posted:This is why my proposal also delivers guns and ammo with the UBI my man
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Mar 29, 2019 17:15
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Serf posted:sure but that guaranteed $1000 more in our pockets would just translate to higher prices on goods and services to extract as much value as possible. so it could be good for a time, but eventually the market would adjust to make sure you don't actually have any material benefit no it wouldn't
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Mar 29, 2019 17:18
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Serf posted:sure but that guaranteed $1000 more in our pockets would just translate to higher prices on goods and services to extract as much value as possible. so it could be good for a time, but eventually the market would adjust to make sure you don't actually have any material benefit Okay but even if egalitarian helicopter money drives inflation, it would still necessarily reduce the wealthy's share of the economy, since they are in possession of the vast majority of the old money and a tiny minority of the new money.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:18
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:no it wouldn't yes it would 30.5 Days posted:Okay but even if egalitarian helicopter money drives inflation, it would still necessarily reduce the wealthy's share of the economy, since they are in possession of the vast majority of the old money and a tiny minority of the new money. the best way to do that is to cut their heads off and take back what is ours
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Mar 29, 2019 17:19
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this is some kind of backwards way towards leguin utilitarianism where we're trying to make poor people the deprived child because we think we need it to realize a necessary upper bound on suffering
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Mar 29, 2019 17:19
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Package #1 is a grand, an uberti 12 gauge single shot, a box of double aught buck, and a copy of wage labor and capital
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Mar 29, 2019 17:20
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Serf posted:sure but that guaranteed $1000 more in our pockets would just translate to higher prices on goods and services to extract as much value as possible. so it could be good for a time, but eventually the market would adjust to make sure you don't actually have any material benefit so... inflation? why wouldn't ubi be tied to inflation
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Mar 29, 2019 17:21
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:so... inflation? why wouldn't ubi be tied to inflation i'm asking the same question i suppose
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Mar 29, 2019 17:22
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also we can already see that it's not doing such a thing in places where large amounts of people are on disability
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Mar 29, 2019 17:23
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Epic High Five posted:Package #1 is a grand, an uberti 12 gauge single shot, a box of double aught buck, and a copy of wage labor and capital Where's the booze and weed
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Mar 29, 2019 17:25
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Poniard posted:Where's the booze and weed Let me tell you about the money-value inherent in money as commodity
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Mar 29, 2019 17:25
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:also we can already see that it's not doing such a thing in places where large amounts of people are on disability maybe i'm misunderstanding, but disability generally isn't a supplement for your current income like ubi would be, right? from what i've seen people on disability are on it because they can't work at all, so there's no extra cash to be accounted for
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Mar 29, 2019 17:26
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the across-board inflation argument is absolute nonsense, the price of corn would not go up because people are able to feed their kids, there is room to feed the poor better the rent aspect is true in some places, but not *that* many, and a bit more money would improve mobility in every sense of the word the fact is that the poor have it way loving worse in the us than a lot of other first world nations, and the reason they have it better in other places is a social safety net which is not so different in practice from ubi (after all for the vast majority of people ubi would be a small tax rate adjustment). it is bootstraps and american exceptionalism bullshit that has people dismiss it out of hand on some static economic basis
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Mar 29, 2019 17:27
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i mean don't get me wrong "it'll cause inflation" is absolutely the real reason the people in charge don't want it to happen
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Mar 29, 2019 17:27
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Epic High Five posted:Let me tell you about the money-value inherent in money as commodity Just lemme swap the 1000 pieces of toilet paper for weed
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Mar 29, 2019 17:28
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Serf posted:the best way to do that is to cut their heads off and take back what is ours Is this some accelerationist bullshit where you refuse to make people's lives better because you're angling for revolution?
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Mar 29, 2019 17:31
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Like if "killing capitalists and expropriating their wealth would be better" is your standard I've got bad news about like every policy we'll ever discuss here
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Mar 29, 2019 17:32
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We definitely talk a lot about killing capitalists and taking their stuff here
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Mar 29, 2019 17:33
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30.5 Days posted:Is this some accelerationist bullshit where you refuse to make people's lives better because you're angling for revolution? i mean the acceleration is happening and will continue to happen regardless of what i personally want. but no, you shouldn't cheerlead it (which is what ubi is) and should instead prepare to exploit the horrifying outcomes to radicalize the population
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Mar 29, 2019 17:34
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a functional implementation of ubi would probably head off widespread violent social unrest, but if the us was a society which would ever conceivably adopt ubi then we wouldn't be inching toward widespread violent social unrest to begin with. we're just too lovely.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:43
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can not wait for someone in the govt to broach the subject of ubi just so every cspam mod in america will get real mad at getting an extra $1000 a month
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Mar 29, 2019 17:46
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UBI wouldn't see many increases on the cost of goods or rent because student loan vendors would write language in the bill that allows them to garnish 100% of it in perpetuity and nobody would ever actually see the thousand bucks.
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Mar 29, 2019 18:16
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An extra thousand bucks a month would come close to doubling my pay. *wistful sigh*
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Mar 29, 2019 18:58
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i mean, i think my case *for* ubi, as someone who is not that sold on it, but certainly also not sold on the "lol inflation will make it not happen, depending on your political position either stage a bloody revoluation or learn to code idiot" view, is pretty clearly summed up in:Eat This Glob posted:a $1000 per adult ubi would do wonders in very rural, pretty poor places. i lived in a part of iowa where one school district was poor enough that the feds told the administration not to bother doing income verification, just give every kid free breakfast and lunch. they also provide breakfast and lunch during summer vacation so kids get at least a couple meals. in addition, there is a food backpack program for nights and weekends. and not just because it'll let those people live, but in that microcosm the market will actually also work, they'll spend some of the extra money down at the diner and hardware store, buy some locally produced stuff from the guy they know, and even start their own business. i know that some in the thread view this as counterrevolutionary, but, like, there are people dying in very sad circumstances out there.
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Mar 29, 2019 19:23
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ubi, in all current forms, is just life support for the capitalist system. and under a socialist system there would be no need for it because the basic necessities of life would be provided for as a matter of course
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Mar 29, 2019 20:05
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the question isn't ubi vs nothing. the question is ubi vs strengthening the targeted welfare programs ubi would replace. it's easier to sell ubi politically but it's hard to see how it helps as much. the simplicity of not means testing, and lack of stigmatizing do work in it's favor though i guess
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Mar 29, 2019 20:34
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Dr. Killjoy posted:wait so the right wing memes about “hurr let’s flood the liberal coastal states” are comically inaccurate? owns bones. I thought for sure we'd be the climate refugees. Oh well, gently caress em.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:36
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