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scary ghost dog posted:googling how to solve puzzles is no different than just watching a youtube playthrough People don't watch all the puzzles on youtube. They look at the solution (or a hint) to something they get stuck at.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:16
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Didn't all this start because of some article that said "Souls games should have an easy mode because I don't like the difficulty" without mentioning disability concerns at all? I mean, it's not like every Souls game doesn't have secret easy mode anyway with some cheese strat or overpowered weapon.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:18
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Andrast posted:People don't watch all the puzzles on youtube. They look at the solution (or a hint) to something they get stuck at. not terribly different than looking up ways to easily cheese bosses in the souls series
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Mar 29, 2019 20:18
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Oxyclean posted:Like, I suck rear end at games, but I managed to get through all of Soulsborne save Demons' (don't have it.) I honestly kind of agree the difficulty is a big part of what makes those games kind of special and I don't think I would have had the same experience had I not had to feel like I had to overcome certain things. I'm not advocating for easy options out of personal desire - I have a bad habit of banging my head on a wall rather then turning down the difficulty or seeking easier options - but I believe that people can still have the same experience at a lower difficulty setting, and there are things outside of the difficulty that make soulsborne special. Right, saying that the only thing that makes Soulsborne special is it's difficulty is doing a massive disservice to stuff like their art design, level design, atmosphere etc. And given that I absolutely love them, I'm always so disappointed that there's so many people who'll never get to enjoy it because what I bet is a vocal minority would kick up enough poo poo if From did add some kind of difficulty/accessibility options.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:19
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scary ghost dog posted:this guy literally says people with disabilities might not find a game with an easy mode easier to play He also says that in-game modifiable assist difficulty levels will help those with disabilities to play at all, and again doing so does not harm anybody else's experience of the game.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:19
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scary ghost dog posted:neither of the games i mentioned have easy modes. mario odyssey does not have the 3D world powerups and the witness does not offer hints. and googling how to solve puzzles is no different than just watching a youtube playthrough https://twinfinite.net/2017/10/super-mario-odyssey-how-to-use-assist-mode-and-what-it-does/ quote:For series newcomers or players who might find Super Mario Odyssey to be a tad challenging, the game provides an Assist Mode that makes the game considerably easier. And the best part is, there doesn’t seem to be any downside or penalty to using it.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:19
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Seeing difficulty options at all in some games just sends people into a frothing rage for some mysterious reason.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:19
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:The entire loving point of the Soulsbourne games is the journey of perseverance and overcoming. It's not actually about being super hard. There's nothing really hard about the Dark Souls games or Bloodborne other than memorisation. That's just poisonous shite that's dripped from the mouths of a corrosive Gamer community over years and was picked up by Bandai's marketing department. physiological impediments would not necessarily be helped by an easy mode, as indicated in the twitter thread that was posted earlier
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Mar 29, 2019 20:20
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Oxyclean posted:But does it really matter when you frontline the proper format? You present a "here's the way the game is meant to be experienced" and have players who start up the game launch into it without any difficult chocies presented, but you have some assist settings in a menu with a (non-condescending) warning that they'd disrupt the intended balance of the game. I think as long as it’s done exactly as you describe, with a VERY clear message on what the INTENDED difficulty is, ala Celeste, then it’s fine, albeit somewhat missing the point if the game is ABOUT difficulty. But I still don’t think it’s something to impose on the creator. For example, something like Getting Over It would have made zero sense if it was easy, at that point why bother? I do like subtitles for dialogue but I don’t think audio captions for something like a monster’s tells would make sense. I guess I would put a distinction where it affects the gameplay, as opposed to something affecting cinematic direction? I don’t really have strong opinions on that stuff either way though, to be honest.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:20
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scary ghost dog posted:not terribly different than looking up ways to easily cheese bosses in the souls series Yeah and neither are bad things! That's the entire loving point here. The difference between them is that a puzzle solution is generally guaranteed to work, while weird strats in action games usually aren't. Like in souls games you can occasionally cheese a boss but that's not the case for most of them.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:21
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Blockhouse posted:let me help you out here: it's because they would be a good thing Modifiers in plenty of games make me realize wait, why am I even bothering, and ruin the experience. Though usually it’s because under the surface it’s not a very good game on the first place. Thinking of you, Skyrim
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Mar 29, 2019 20:22
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CuddlyZombie posted:I think as long as it’s done exactly as you describe, with a VERY clear message on what the INTENDED difficulty is, ala Celeste, then it’s fine, albeit somewhat missing the point if the game is ABOUT difficulty. But I still don’t think it’s something to impose on the creator. For example, something like Getting Over It would have made zero sense if it was easy, at that point why bother? i do want to know what happens at the end of getting over it, but i dont want to look up a video and im not good enough to beat it myself.....u guys might have a point
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Mar 29, 2019 20:24
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scary ghost dog posted:i do want to know what happens at the end of getting over it, but i dont want to look up a video and im not good enough to beat it myself.....u guys might have a point It would be cool if it had a different difficulty setting so you could beat it yourself, right? One that wouldn’t affect anyone else’s experience in the slightest?
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Mar 29, 2019 20:26
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Barent posted:It would be cool if it had a different difficulty setting so you could beat it yourself, right? One that wouldn’t affect anyone else’s experience in the slightest? That would ruin the point entirely and would be extremely uncool. I say this as someone so turned off by its difficulty that I don’t even want to watch others play it.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:28
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CuddlyZombie posted:I think as long as it’s done exactly as you describe, with a VERY clear message on what the INTENDED difficulty is, ala Celeste, then it’s fine, albeit somewhat missing the point if the game is ABOUT difficulty. But I still don’t think it’s something to impose on the creator. For example, something like Getting Over It would have made zero sense if it was easy, at that point why bother? The thing is, at the end of the day, no-one can FORCE FromSoft to do anything. All this is people advocating for assist modes and whatnot, and providing compelling arguments for why they would be a net positive. No doubt Getting Over It would not be the same if it was easy, but its a much smaller niche indie game made by a single person, not a massive experience by a large studio. The accessibility discussion has never been something about covering every single game ever. There's going to be games and experiences that might not be helped by accessibility options - but doesn't mean people shouldn't provide suggestions, solutions, or strive to make gaming as a whole more accessible. But to go back to Getting Over It - i'd argue there could be an easy mode that wouldn't diminish the experience because no-one is forced to use it. There's still competely the effect of "holy poo poo you beat the game without the assist mode?!"
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Mar 29, 2019 20:30
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CuddlyZombie posted:Modifiers in plenty of games make me realize wait, why am I even bothering, and ruin the experience. Though usually it’s because under the surface it’s not a very good game on the first place. Thinking of you, Skyrim Okay so wait is your argument "games shouldn't have easy modes/assists because I can't keep myself from using them" is that what you're going with here?
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Mar 29, 2019 20:32
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Barent posted:It would be cool if it had a different difficulty setting so you could beat it yourself, right? One that wouldn’t affect anyone else’s experience in the slightest? thats what i meant when i said u guys might have a point. then again the game is called “getting over it” and features voiceover discussing overcoming seemingly impossible obstacles from a philosophical standpoint. maybe theres more to the subject of difficulty in games than just not being able to beat them and youre attached to a solution in search of a problem
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Mar 29, 2019 20:33
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Blockhouse posted:Okay so wait is your argument "games shouldn't have easy modes/assists because I can't keep myself from using them" Not at all, I’m just saying in that post that lazy difficulty settings in bad games can expose a lack of thought by developers put into certain mechanical systems, which can ruin an otherwise salvageable experience. If the numbers in Skyrim are so unimportant that the developers are fine with having such drastic changes depending on difficulty setting, why should I trust them that they’re balanced at all? (In that games case, they’re not.)
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Mar 29, 2019 20:37
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At least let me have the illusion that thought was put into your game’s systems, Bethesda!
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Mar 29, 2019 20:38
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Insisting there not be an easy mode means you put far too much personal worth in dumb videogames, which is very sad Easy example comes to mind right away, Subnautica having a creative mode with no health, water, oxygen, or food meters does not somehow make the survival mode nonexistent or worth less for those who want it. CuddlyZombie posted:That would ruin the point entirely and would be extremely uncool. I say this as someone so turned off by its difficulty that I don’t even want to watch others play it.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:38
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Captain Invictus posted:Insisting there not be an easy mode means you put far too much personal worth in dumb videogames, which is very sad If I couldn't disable the food/water meters in subnautica I wouldn't have played it
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Mar 29, 2019 20:39
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Captain Invictus posted:Insisting there not be an easy mode means you put far too much personal worth in dumb videogames, which is very sad nobodys asking for easy modes to be removed from games that have them
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Mar 29, 2019 20:40
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Captain Invictus posted:There's only one thing uncool here, and that's you drat. Looks like I’ve been both trolled, memed, and pwned, to quote Lisa Simpson.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:41
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Andrast posted:If I couldn't disable the food/water meters in subnautica I wouldn't have played it There you go! More options is good. And subnautica is a really good game that giving more options that expand the potential player base is never bad. The absolute worst case scenario are the ones that offer a difficulty option but poo poo on you for going for a lower difficilty, like not letting you see the real ending or whatever
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Mar 29, 2019 20:41
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scary ghost dog posted:nobodys asking for easy modes to be removed from games that have them CuddlyZombie posted:drat. Looks like I’ve been both trolled, memed, and pwned, to quote Lisa Simpson.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:42
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Captain Invictus posted:Insisting there not be an easy mode means you put far too much personal worth in dumb videogames, which is very sad this. loving lol talking about "diminishing the art" or that it cheapens the experience. also when i look at a celeste speedrun i am definitely thinking these loser babies should have just played it with the no deaths assist on and taken their time
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Mar 29, 2019 20:43
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Actually video games are good, and not dumb.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:44
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CuddlyZombie posted:Actually video games are good, and not dumb. they can be both
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Mar 29, 2019 20:46
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CuddlyZombie posted:Actually video games are good, and not dumb. I agree, and I think more people being able to have fun with them is cool.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:47
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insisting games be more easily beaten sounds like the position that puts value on beating games if you ask me
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Mar 29, 2019 20:48
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DMC5 has an easy mode that keeps the spirit of the game alive while allowing people that aren't that great at games or have disabilities to experience them. Hell, it even works as a stepping stone for the harder difficulties, letting people get comfortable with certain mechanics so that next time they can take it up a notch. If all your game is is "hard", your game is bad.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:48
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no more tv or movie adaptations of print media they're diminishing the art of books
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Mar 29, 2019 20:48
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Oxyclean posted:I agree, and I think more people being able to have fun with them is cool. I agree wholeheartedly.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:49
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Oxyclean posted:no more tv or movie adaptations of print media they're diminishing the art of books I mean,
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Mar 29, 2019 20:50
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CuddlyZombie posted:Actually video games are good, and not dumb.  CuddlyZombie posted:I agree wholeheartedly.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:50
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i am currently enjoy classic SBF game The Evil Within on casual difficulty because i would not have put up with this bullshit long enough on survival
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Mar 29, 2019 20:50
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Dias posted:If all your game is is "hard", your game is bad. “Hard” disagree. For example, Baba Is You is hard as poo poo and kicks rear end.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:52
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Hell, DMC even takes it in the other direction and adds a mode that's terrible design by any other metric, but it's catered towards hardcore players that wanna see if they can beat it without even taking a hit. The game is definitely not balanced nor designed for that, it actually kinda ruins a bunch of tools you have access to, but it's there and no one ever complains about artistic integrity there.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:52
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CuddlyZombie posted:“Hard” disagree. For example, Baba Is You is hard as poo poo and kicks rear end. He didn't say that hard games are bad. He meant that if difficulty is all that your game has then it's bad.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:53
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CuddlyZombie posted:“Hard” disagree. For example, Baba Is You is hard as poo poo and kicks rear end. You misread their post
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Mar 29, 2019 20:53
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