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Reading second 39 page funpack: Doc one written by Hagan: they found out some place's for was off by 4 minutes Doc two written by Hagan. Details how FBI Analyst LOPEZ got Jussies cOlour account Doc 3 written by Voganthaller: looool get the gently caress outta here. 5 page document. Page 2 and 4 missing. Page 5 is blank. No information Doc 4 written by Voganthaller: this is the one to read of you want any ducking content. It details the interview R/D had with the work out bros. Date of occurrence was 17feb. Lemme editorialize here: Cornball is shirty at writing reports. All his documents were submitted to his supervisor on 26march. At past least Hagen was last week at 20 march. I dunno how police reporting works, but at my rentacop gig we had to submit our reports like the next day by the latest. Doc 5 written by Vogenthaller: more shot about the $3500 check. I'm checked out by now. Something something this was the day of the grand jury thingy. Doc 6 written by Vogenthaller: details stuff between lawyers and Det Theis and some boring poo poo. Missy turns him self in 21feb. Doc 6 written by Vogenthaller: He wrote he was there when Skillet turned himself in. =================== I got that all basically as comprehended. Sounds like a big ok whiff of nothing.
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Mar 30, 2019 08:39
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Bored As gently caress posted:So the other option was... what? Serious question. Get most officers in a perimeter with decent fields of fire and cover then try and wake him up. Put an unoccupied cruiser ahead of him(that was apparently already there in the diagram) due to the car being in drive, the subject can’t accidentally or on purpose move forward and nobody is right there to get lit up. Options to wake him up are things such as a loud speaker or tapping his car from behind with another cruiser. He can’t turn and shoot the car behind without the officers covering him being able to tag him. Keep the reds/blues on so he knows what’s up when he opens his eyes. Crowding multiple dudes around and killing the sleeping guy if he moves while he wakes up is not a good course of action. There was no way he was going to live once they went with that plan. He was probably dead before he even processed what was happening. Probably just died scared, confused, and blinded by tactical flashlights, while trying to make sense of the yelling. If they had given him the consideration and compassion they would give a rich white guy in a 2019 Benz in the same situation he would most likely be alive. Instead they decided he was just another shitbird and that if he got killed because they didn’t want to deal with it, that it was ok. It’s not a good or easy situation, but they probably picked one of the worst options. If you have to wait a little bit so you don’t have to kill someone who doesn’t need to die then maybe that’s ok. Deescalation means leaving avenues for a peaceful resolution. Expecting a sleeping or passed out person to not move while waking up and not react to people crowded around him with lights and guns is not leaving him an avenue. Also lol “SHOW ME YOUR HANDS!!!” After literally shredding a dude. Are you loving kidding me? loving clowns.
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Mar 30, 2019 08:40
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Bored As gently caress posted:What would you have done? "The officers then realized the firearm did not have a magazine in it, noting to each other that if it was loaded, it would have a single bullet in it: “He’s only got one shot if he shoots.”"
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Mar 30, 2019 08:51
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NJersey posted:"The officers then realized the firearm did not have a magazine in it, noting to each other that if it was loaded, it would have a single bullet in it: “He’s only got one shot if he shoots.”" They incorrectly stated that. Most cops don't know gently caress all about guns. The dude had an extented magazine in the gun, which goes beyond the end of the grip - the cop mistook that for the magazine being almost out of the gun, leaving only 1 roud in the chamber. In reality, the dude had 14+1 rounds in the gun. Bored As Fuck fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Mar 30, 2019 |
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Mar 30, 2019 09:23
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Richard Bong posted:Get most officers in a perimeter with decent fields of fire and cover then try and wake him up. See, this is actually a good idea. It's too bad they didn't do this. Having two officers with guns on him from the left, while one tapped the window would have been good, BUT those officers would have had to have been really close to the door in order to see if he was reaching. It's another option that they had but they didn't have enough time to formulate that, because dude woke up while they were planning what to do. quote:Crowding multiple dudes around and killing the sleeping guy if he moves while he wakes up is not a good course of action. There was no way he was going to live once they went with that plan. He was probably dead before he even processed what was happening. Probably just died scared, confused, and blinded by tactical flashlights, while trying to make sense of the yelling. quote:If they had given him the consideration and compassion they would give a rich white guy in a 2019 Benz in the same situation he would most likely be alive. Instead they decided he was just another shitbird and that if he got killed because they didn’t want to deal with it, that it was ok. It’s not a good or easy situation, but they probably picked one of the worst options. If you have to wait a little bit so you don’t have to kill someone who doesn’t need to die then maybe that’s ok. quote:Deescalation means leaving avenues for a peaceful resolution. Expecting a sleeping or passed out person to not move while waking up and not react to people crowded around him with lights and guns is not leaving him an avenue. quote:Also lol “SHOW ME YOUR HANDS!!!” After literally shredding a dude. Are you loving kidding me? loving clowns.  In order for the cops to move in to start giving medical aid, they want to be safe. And they're going to want to see the guy's hands, if he's able. A lot of the time, the suspect is not able to, so the cops slowly move in, delaying medical treatment. It sucks, but why rush in to provide medical aid to a guy who could still be a threat? Why rush in immediately with a first aid kit when the dude could just shoot you as soon as you move to render aid? It's safe to be more methodical about it.
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Mar 30, 2019 09:59
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Bored As gently caress posted:In order for the cops to move in to start giving medical aid, they want to be safe. Until zombies are a thing, killing someone before you render aid is very safe, indeed.
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Mar 30, 2019 10:40
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mlmp08 posted:Until zombies are a thing, killing someone before you render aid is very safe, indeed. It's unclear in the video whether he died instantly. In a lot of officer involved shootings, they render aid after shooting the suspect, but only after they confirm that the gun is no longer in the guy's hands. Unless the rounds hit the head or the heart or spine and immediately kill the person, there's a chance that the wound/s a suspect gets are surviviable. Even arterial bleeds can be controlled with a TQ if its applied within a minute. Sometimes the wounds aren't survivable. Sometimes they are. But waiting to render aid until the suspect no longer has a weapon in his hands is standard procedure in many if not most departments.
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Mar 30, 2019 11:16
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You shpuld have taken my post seriously but not literally.
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Mar 30, 2019 11:25
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Bored As gently caress posted:See, this is actually a good idea. It's too bad they didn't do this. Having two officers with guns on him from the left, while one tapped the window would have been good, BUT those officers would have had to have been really close to the door in order to see if he was reaching. It's another option that they had but they didn't have enough time to formulate that, because dude woke up while they were planning what to do. This is a hell of a hill to die on, a bunch of lovely pigs executed a black dude straight up, and you defend them. If dude was white they probably wouldn't have shot him because they immediately thought, black dude, gun, must be a gang banger light him up
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Mar 30, 2019 11:52
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I typically side against the cops but Jesus Christ, the victim actually had a gun this time and reached for it. He was intoxicated, his car was in drive. The body cam feed didn't cut out for a convenient interval. I agree that when the cop with the body cam muttered "This is hosed," that should have been his cue to figure out a better way to approach the situation, but I'm not going to crucify somebody for not being a tactical mastermind. That's a sign of poor training, not of a deep-seated vendetta against sleeping black men.
Eugene V. Dubstep fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Mar 30, 2019 |
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Mar 30, 2019 12:13
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Bored As gently caress posted:He didnt leave them with much of a choice. That's a pretty disingenious statement. The guy had just started waking up in an unfamiliar place, had multiple flashlights shining into his face, and was shouted at from multiple directions through his car windows. It was fewer than 4 seconds from him starting to wake up to getting shot up. The cops did everything they could to make things as disorienting as possible. I doubt he was even able to grasp the situation he was in, or make a conscious decision, before he was lit up.
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Mar 30, 2019 12:14
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Hannibal Rex posted:That's a pretty disingenious statement. The guy had just started waking up in an unfamiliar place, had multiple flashlights shining into his face, and was shouted at from multiple directions through his car windows. It was fewer than 4 seconds from him starting to wake up to getting shot up. The cops did everything they could to make things as disorienting as possible. I doubt he was even able to grasp the situation he was in, or make a conscious decision, before he was lit up. Here's the thing - when I said he didn't give them much choice, I was talking about his decisions leading up to when he passed out. I stated above that it's unlikely he understood what was going on, or even heard/ understood the officers commands. But unfortunately when he reached for his gun, consciously or not, he hosed up. So he was either intoxicated, on ambien, on drugs, or (and this is less likely) had an extremely unfortunate complication from a medical emergency like a seizure or diabetic episode, or interaction between two medications. Even if it's the latter two, and I highly doubt that, he still chose to have an illegally owned pistol not only within his reach, but placed on his lap. It's extremely unlikely that he was just tired, and I'll be very surprised if the toxicology report / autopsy comes back clean. Either he consciously chose to drive intoxicated with an illegally owned handgun in clear visible view on his lap, or he was blacked out from alcohol and made those decisions, or he nodded off from being on opiates. Either way, he made the decision to drive intoxicated, or made the decision to take opiates. Being blacked out drunk isn't an excuse for driving drunk. People who committed DWIs wake up in jail not knowing how they got there all the time. We still punish them for the crimes they commit. We still punish them for the DWI, and if they resist or fight, police use whatever force necessary to make the arrest. And if he was black out drunk, it's not an excuse here, either, especially because he had that gun. That gun didnt magically appear. He chose to be in possession of a stolen handgun. By having that gun in clear view, in easy reach with little effort, he gave the police very few options here. Had he not woken up, things could've gone differently. There are a lot of cases where police made bad decicions and straight up committed murder or negligent homicide or manslaughter, but this isnt one of them. Why don't you worry about those instead of trying to lump this guy's death in with ones that were actually hosed up? He had a gun, and he was the one who placed it there.
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Mar 30, 2019 12:54
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1111965027483951105 The president has logged on this Saturday morning to stand behind war criminals. And tagged Fox and Friends because we live in a totally normal and good country
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Mar 30, 2019 13:20
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At least the president doesn’t need a wall of text to defend extrajudicial killings, I guess.
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Mar 30, 2019 13:49
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orange juche posted:This is a hell of a hill to die on, a bunch of lovely pigs executed a black dude straight up, and you defend them. If dude was white they probably wouldn't have shot him because they immediately thought, black dude, gun, must be a gang banger light him up For real. Dude could have legally owned the gun and been in a diabetic coma and it would have gone down 100% exactly the same way.
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Mar 30, 2019 13:55
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Jesus, they executed the guy, and there wasnt even a magazine in the gun. Why is it, after all the obvious racist bullshit cops do, people still rise to their defense?
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Mar 30, 2019 13:57
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CommieGIR posted:Jesus, they executed the guy, and there wasnt even a magazine in the gun. 
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Mar 30, 2019 13:59
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Lol just bump the car from behind with a cruiser while hitting him with a spotlight and megaphone. If he wants to shoot anyone he has to shoot through multiple windows or step out of the car first. Nah let's put guys right on top of him with guns drawn and put them more at risk so lethal force is the only option.
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Mar 30, 2019 14:05
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CommieGIR posted:Jesus, they executed the guy, and there wasnt even a magazine in the gun. Same can be said for are troops. Both have a long history of doing some good, some bad, and both have critics and defenders. something something circle overlap. Just to be clear, this isn't directed at anyone here, it's just there is no high ground at the moment and we're all standing around in the swill. Is the copchat thread still active? that might be a better place for this case, as well as for smollett.
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Mar 30, 2019 14:07
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Bored As gently caress posted:Here's the thing - when I said he didn't give them much choice, I was talking about his decisions leading up to when he passed out. I stated above that it's unlikely he understood what was going on, or even heard/ understood the officers commands. But unfortunately when he reached for his gun, consciously or not, he hosed up. IF you are black and have a gun in your lap, expect to be subjected to a extrajudicial firing squad, because actually arresting you ain't worth the risk. None of these facts you are highlighting were known BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO BLOW HIM AWAY. And don't bullshit this: You KNOW if he had been white, they would've taken extra care to just subdue and arrest him  kupachek posted:Same can be said for are troops. No, there is no both sides to this. either. DoD ROE is a lot stricter than US Police ROE, and US Military Members do tend to at least face UCMJ consequences. These guys will walk.
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Mar 30, 2019 14:10
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1111965027483951105 Party of the rule of law!!!
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Mar 30, 2019 14:39
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I was in a nearly identical situation in Iraq as a scared 19 year old kid who had just cleared ABN school. They guy walked away. There were two of us. So 6 "professionals" ostensibly trained, couldn't do what two Infantryman in a war zone couldn't? Just making sure we want to hold the police to a lower standard than troubled kids from the inner city from broken homes with automatic weapons, and taking meds given to them with the known risks of psychotic behavior and irrational and angry outbursts. You know, for consistency. There were about a million better ways to handle it- particularly if you have 6 officers. Cover and Contact. Defending these officers is no different than defending that cop who shot the kid running in the back. If your first solution to a dodgy situation is to shoot, maybe you shouldn't be on that end of the social contract.
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Mar 30, 2019 14:40
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Cruiser on either side of him, use the intercom to wake him up. Cover him with an officer with a long gun. Nope! Just walk up to him and blast away Willy nilly. Open and shut case.
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Mar 30, 2019 14:41
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Better idea- lets circle the car so we all get shot/get a shot.
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Mar 30, 2019 14:45
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bulletsponge13 posted:Better idea- lets circle the car so we all get shot/get a shot. In this case I wish they had.
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Mar 30, 2019 14:46
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As long as people focus on whether or not police use of lethal or other force was, strictly speaking, legally defensible rather than what is preventable, you're going to get cops beating up or killing people needlessly.
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Mar 30, 2019 14:48
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CommieGIR posted:
I wasn't getting at "both sides", I meant that there is no shortage of people lining up to suck off the image of the military which can do no wrong, just like with the police. There is a lot of heinous poo poo they'll overlook, and breaking ROE doesn't mean poo poo if the fuckers in charge decide to overlook the incident. And yeah, those guys will probably walk. They shouldn't, but white america will let them off after a quick suck and a private "good job" handshake.
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Mar 30, 2019 15:00
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1111965027483951105 Lol Nixon did the same poo poo with Calley
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Mar 30, 2019 15:15
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:Lol Nixon did the same poo poo with Calley Except Nixon didn't have the benefit of a parallel media ecosystem that will stand behind him no matter. With a captive audience of something like 40% of the voter base that have also now been conditioned to treat any dissenting thought as fake news.
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Mar 30, 2019 15:25
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Except Nixon didn't have the benefit of a parallel media ecosystem that will stand behind him no matter. With a captive audience of something like 40% of the voter base that have also now been conditioned to treat any dissenting thought as fake news. Conservative media wasn't as unified and directed as it is now, but it was still there. Half of America thought My Lai was fake news created to weaken our resolve, and part of those who believed it thought it was fine because our soldiers do what they need to and don't criticize our heroes.
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Mar 30, 2019 15:51
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Except Nixon didn't have the benefit of a parallel media ecosystem that will stand behind him no matter. With a captive audience of something like 40% of the voter base that have also now been conditioned to treat any dissenting thought as fake news. Wasn't  specifically created to prevent another Watergate?
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Mar 30, 2019 16:07
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Current right wing propaganda is a whole different beast. Roger Ailes created Fox specifically to counteract the next Nixon outcome.
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Mar 30, 2019 16:11
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Yesterday, a federal judge knocked down California's 10 Round magazine limit as unconstitutional. There is an insane run on the standard capacity 30 rd and standard pistol magazines right now before they try and ban them again. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-blocks-california-s-ban-high-capacity-magazines-over-2nd-n989136
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Mar 30, 2019 16:17
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Wonder what that means for Colorados' 15rd capacity law.
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Mar 30, 2019 16:19
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Wonder what that means for Colorados' 15rd capacity law. Nothing right now. The specific issue (legality of removing grandfathering provisions for standard magazines) doesn't apply to CO, and the broader potential implications of the judge's reasoning (legality of magazine restrictions at all) would apply only in the southern district of CA.
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Mar 30, 2019 16:40
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And this is the problem with feature/accessory bans, until they ban self loading mechanisms you will have tons of meaningless court battles as everyone tries to find loopholes and technicalities.
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Mar 30, 2019 16:51
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Arven posted:For real. Dude could have legally owned the gun and been in a diabetic coma and it would have gone down 100% exactly the same way. You know what I do when I'm driving around, as a person with a concealed carry permit, collection of firearms, and living in an open carry state? Roll around with a gun in my lap as I go through the drive thru. Wait, no...that's a really loving bad idea. But maybe he planned to put the gun away before getting up to the window and brandishing. Edit: Obviously the guy didn't deserve summary execution, but it seems pretty unlikely that the cops responded with the intent of mercing this guy. This thread scares me when Eugene is the loving voice of reason. Godholio fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 30, 2019 |
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Mar 30, 2019 17:13
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Donnie got his Federal Reserve pick from his teevee and the WSJ. Both him and his pick are legendary idiots, so hopefully someone did vett- whoops he has a $75k IRS lien. Well, maybe someone looked into his histo- https://twitter.com/jonswaine/status/1112003945675833344?s=19
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Mar 30, 2019 17:14
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Godholio posted:You know what I do when I'm driving around, as a person with a concealed carry permit, collection of firearms, and living in an open carry state? Roll around with a gun in my lap as I go through the drive thru. Uh... have you ever met anyone who conceal/open carries? I'm in Pennsyltucky and I have in-laws do who this poo poo. They're white, though, so...
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Mar 30, 2019 17:21
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facialimpediment posted:Donnie got his Federal Reserve pick from his teevee and the WSJ. Both him and his pick are legendary idiots, so hopefully someone did vett- whoops he has a $75k IRS lien. Well, maybe someone looked into his histo- So the dead beat dad law from last month is coming full circle I see.
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Mar 30, 2019 17:23
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