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discount cathouse posted:Quinns is straight up telling people they're not real gamers unless they back 150$ kickstarters. I guess the pro-consumer sentiment was Paul's. The kickstarter is $80? Unless you're talking some other kind of dollar?
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Mar 29, 2019 23:12
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Pretty sure Quinns has like 50 favorite board games ever and at least one of them is Cosmic Encounter. I really like the dude but i wouldn't put too much stock in how much he likes a game.
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Mar 29, 2019 23:46
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Magnetic North posted:The kickstarter is $80? Unless you're talking some other kind of dollar? I'm guessing 79 plus 16 shipping, convert to Australian/NZ dollars is pretty close to 150.
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Mar 30, 2019 00:29
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FWIW about Blood on the Clocktower, I hate Werewolf and most other social deduction games but I tried BotC at SHUX and loved it. I may be slightly biased at this point though, because I'm also editing it now.
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Mar 30, 2019 00:33
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I love how SUSD doesn't give games a score and the "seal" is mostly an afterthought, with them instead trying to present the idea of the game and what works/doesn't in a way that viewers can decide for themselves if it's a good fit, but this video got blinded by enthusiasm IMO. I would have preferred more about why they're willing to point at this Kickstarter when they rightfully shy away from others (namely that the game is feature-complete and has been getting demo'd around conventions, the funding's just for actual distribution and graphic design and such when many of the overhyped KSers they get bugged about are a pocket full of dreams at that stage), and stressing that "sanding off some of the burrs that turn folks away from Werewolf games" doesn't mean those are the only reasons people dislike Werewolf games and everyone's not going to automatically love it.
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Mar 30, 2019 00:35
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I believe Quinns was specifically the one that called Gloomhaven a giant box of Kickstarter fluff, then had the gall to say this about BotCT (which is literally just a giant box, rules, and 100 tokens): “the price sounded high before I played it, and now I feel it’s cheap. You’re paying for felt backing on the box and tokens which is absolutely needed to play the game. This is the Gloomhaven of social games. Yes it’s very expensive, kind of ugly, and maybe it’s too big, but IF YOU CARE ABOUT THIS HOBBY you’re not going to be making that argument.”  He also made a huge deal about the moderator breaking rules and how great that was when the rulebook actually says exactly the opposite. Moose pointed that out to him on Twitter and inseatd of saying “oops, we got that wrong, we’ll correct that!” His response was “that’s certainly a good rule for beginners  ”. 
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Mar 30, 2019 00:36
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I've only played Cosmic Encounter once but thinking about it occassionally I may finally agree with Mark of SVWAG that it's secretly the best game ever. Well, my opinion isn't that strong, but I do think it's largely similar to Root in that it's a sloppy mess glued together by a strong and constantly varying group dynamic and if everybody doesn't click the game falls apart completely. Same with Dune, and I'm interested to see if the reprint is a straight reprint or tries to smooth over the rough edges (and thus be actively worse) like Rex.
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Mar 30, 2019 00:44
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al-azad posted:I've only played Cosmic Encounter once but thinking about it occassionally I may finally agree with Mark of SVWAG that it's secretly the best game ever. Well, my opinion isn't that strong, but I do think it's largely similar to Root in that it's a sloppy mess glued together by a strong and constantly varying group dynamic and if everybody doesn't click the game falls apart completely. Same with Dune, and I'm interested to see if the reprint is a straight reprint or tries to smooth over the rough edges (and thus be actively worse) like Rex. Cosmic Encounter is a great game with poo poo rules. It inevitably reduces to a contest to see which player will lose while all the others win, and that contest is itself luck of the draw to some degree, but the interaction of racial powers can make getting to the endpoint really memorable.
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Mar 30, 2019 00:48
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Jedit posted:Cosmic Encounter is a great game with poo poo rules. It inevitably reduces to a contest to see which player will lose while all the others win, and that contest is itself luck of the draw to some degree, but the interaction of racial powers can make getting to the endpoint really memorable. That's basically how I feel. Two people players formed an alliance, one of their powers let them play cards around their planets as a form of barrier that automatically added its value to the defense so they created this unaissable alliance while peacefully exchanging ships. The rest of us tried to counteract this but one player was being overly aggressive in their attacks which I thought was my opportunity to win. I was warned ahead of time of the "zombie" alien that wins when all their dudes die, and realized he probably had that, but multiple planets were empty for the taking. I was one away from winning when he attacked me, we both played the peace card or whatever it's called, and he's like "I refuse to negotiate" which immediately killed the rest of his ships. In the game we played the people teaching said something to the effect of "Usually the winner is the player with the crappiest power" and it really stuck with me because in ~45 minutes this game was pretty dynamic yet it didn't feel uncontrollably random. And I think the gameplay resulted in something really funny and memorable so hey that's a success in my book.
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Mar 30, 2019 00:59
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Blood on the Clocktower does look like a logical evolution of Ultimate Werewolf, with all the worst bits designed around, and looks like a genuine 'role playing session party game' in a box. But that is so drat fragile. The game looks like it absolutely demands having a large number of players to be even worthwhile. It looks time intensive and commitment intensive and unless you're the sort of person who easily and readily can assemble gatherings of 10 people often to play mega werewolf. I can see why Quinns, who is miraculously still obsessed with social games in the way new gamers tend to be, despite being in the hobby for ages, absolutely adores this, but honestly, this looks like an absurdly hasty infatuation. He seems to overlook the fact that moderating a game is fun a couple of times when you get to be the ringmaster and enjoy seeing your friends trip over each other, but after a while, you get sick of being on the sidelines, you want to play this loving game you bought. Maybe he gets off on the puppetmaster aspect... certainly seems that based on how he's talking about the moderation role. He never really has shown a huge interest in actual mechanisms, and now without Paul to actually ground SUSD a little and put the light back on actual design, he's going completely off the deep end with his player interaction obsessions. I don't think it's a healthy idea for a reviewer with his reach to hype such an expensive edge case of a game this hard. This will probably succeed with this level of hype behind it... so I'll just wait for the inevitable cut down, intelligently priced version, to have the option if I do have a house full of people for a game. If that doesn't happen, I really don't get the sense I'll miss out on something essential. But otherwise, I can't see who actually needs this except for excitable college students who can easily put together huge swarms of people regularly.
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Mar 30, 2019 01:18
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quote:(namely that the game is feature-complete and has been getting demo'd around conventions, the funding's just for actual distribution and graphic design and such when many of the overhyped KSers they get bugged about are a pocket full of dreams at that stage) Is this true? A lot of ks stuff seems to be for done and dusted game. I remember people getting the yips over Root when they announced they were overhauling the cards in like, the third backer update because maybe Leder did not know what they were selling.
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Mar 30, 2019 02:09
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Mr. Squishy posted:Is this true? A lot of ks stuff seems to be for done and dusted game. I remember people getting the yips over Root when they announced they were overhauling the cards in like, the third backer update because maybe Leder did not know what they were selling. You know, now that I think about it I don't know. I've experienced a lot of "wait and see what actually comes out, not just the pretty promo picture" but I guess that's been more from the video game side of things.
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Mar 30, 2019 02:16
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One thing that Quinns has going for him in terms of this game is a very close proximity to a LOT of people that like board games at all times. At least, I imagine so -- I'm not creepily suggesting stuff about his social life, but just the fact that he's capable of getting a group of 10+ together every week to play this thing puts him in a very rare spot. I have a weekly group that gets up to 8 or so sometimes so we play a lot of Monikers and stuff, but that's on the low end for this. I might get it anyway, I'm a sucker for big dumb boxes. 
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Mar 30, 2019 03:09
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Mr. Squishy posted:Is this true? A lot of ks stuff seems to be for done and dusted game. I remember people getting the yips over Root when they announced they were overhauling the cards in like, the third backer update because maybe Leder did not know what they were selling. No, I would say that most if not all kickstarters that fall into the realm of "overhyped" were hyped based on some already complete or proven aspect, whether it be art or minis or rules. For these games the purpose of being on kickstarter is to fund the print, not pay for additional development. I mean, development will probably continue, art might still be in progress, but nobody is hitting stretch goals with "I have this idea for a game, pay me to design it." That's not to say that they're all worthwhile games, just that clock tower is not in a better state than Scythe or Spirit Island or Gloomhaven or Root were when they first launched on Kickstarter, or most of the hundreds of other games that get funded. Maybe they play tested more than CMON game #123456, but CMON gane is already art complete, and no one's backing it for the rules.
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Mar 30, 2019 03:15
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NmareBfly posted:I have a weekly group that gets up to 8 or so sometimes so we play a lot of Monikers and stuff, but that's on the low end for this. Pretty much every week at my meetup, at some point we find ourselves looking for something that plays 5 and then we end up either playing with that suboptimal count or just waiting for another game to end so we can break into multiple 3-4 player games. Dr. Video Games 0069 posted:No, I would say that most if not all kickstarters that fall into the realm of "overhyped" were hyped based on some already complete or proven aspect, whether it be art or minis or rules. For these games the purpose of being on kickstarter is to fund the print, not pay for additional development. People like to talk poo poo about Stonemaier around here, but their games are usually 100% ready to go before the KS even begins.
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Mar 30, 2019 04:54
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Stonemaier isn’t doing anymore KS's anyway.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:06
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Quinn's always does this yeah. He falls head over heels for these social deduction games, I assume because his regular group is also social deduction game lovers.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:06
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al-azad posted:I've only played Cosmic Encounter once but thinking about it occassionally I may finally agree with Mark of SVWAG that it's secretly the best game ever. Well, my opinion isn't that strong, but I do think it's largely similar to Root in that it's a sloppy mess glued together by a strong and constantly varying group dynamic and if everybody doesn't click the game falls apart completely. Same with Dune, and I'm interested to see if the reprint is a straight reprint or tries to smooth over the rough edges (and thus be actively worse) like Rex. Congratulations on having a good play of Cosmic. Now next time fix your hands the whole game to be all 6s and 8s and review it again.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:15
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I'm buying Blood on the Clocktower, if only because I want an actually deep and interesting game I can play with 8+ people when we have a bunch of people round and these friendhavers refuse to split into two or three groups. The thing that sold me is when Quinns said that the tedious accusation chain of "You are the traitor!" "You wouldn't say that unless YOU were the traitor!" is apparently absent from BotC. That is my most hated part of that kind of game and if it's absent (or even just mitigated) I'm sold.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:44
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Antiquity for $70. An absolute masterpiece of civ building and harsh, punishing, but extremely rewarding systems. https://www.funagain.com/control/product?product_id=039715
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Mar 30, 2019 05:45
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bobvonunheil posted:I'm buying Blood on the Clocktower, if only because I want an actually deep and interesting game I can play with 8+ people when we have a bunch of people round and these friendhavers refuse to split into two or three groups. I don’t see why it would be absent, you’re still trying to suss out the demon and any minions, etc. it’s just Ultimate Werewolf with more roles and more obfuscation.
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Mar 30, 2019 05:46
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Played 1849 twice tonight. The train rush is harsh and brutal and unforgiving. I thought it was antiquity+18xx from the description but it wasn’t until I played it that I realized how true that was. You have some control over the tempo but it just keeps on tempting you to push harder and faster for the next train but oops you’ve pushed too fast and now you’re selling all your shares for just a little more.
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Mar 30, 2019 06:04
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Bottom Liner posted:I don’t see why it would be absent, you’re still trying to suss out the demon and any minions, etc. it’s just Ultimate Werewolf with more roles and more obfuscation. Maybe, but hearing him mention a major issue I have with social deduction games and address it directly gives me enough hope to feel that the project is worth backing.
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Mar 30, 2019 06:05
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bobvonunheil posted:Maybe, but hearing him mention a major issue I have with social deduction games and address it directly gives me enough hope to feel that the project is worth backing. Well as a lot of people have pointed out, he’s extremely wont to overhyping these kinds of games AND got a major rule wrong in the video, so I’d take that with a big grain of salt before dropping that much money on it. Not to mention, it’ll be hella easy to proxy.
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Mar 30, 2019 06:19
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I'm surprised there hasn't been more of an attempt to do an app-based, TV-less traitor game. Basically thinking of a Jackbox version of Mafia/Werewolf but your phone just gives you your role and the moderation is all done for you Edit: one that I know of, anyway
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Mar 30, 2019 06:40
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I think BotC is as bullshit as everyone else, but it definitely seems ripe for the sort of Megaciv/Twilight Imperium style 'let's get everyone to pitch in a tenner/a twenty and we'll have a heck of a time with this expensive-rear end game' thing.
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Mar 30, 2019 07:02
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I got a ten minute hype pitch from the guy demoing it at last GenCon and left thinking it was just a fancy werewolf clone/remix. Not sure why people are thinking it's more than that.
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Mar 30, 2019 11:23
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bobvonunheil posted:The thing that sold me is when Quinns said that the tedious accusation chain of "You are the traitor!" "You wouldn't say that unless YOU were the traitor!" is apparently absent from BotC. That is my most hated part of that kind of game and if it's absent (or even just mitigated) I'm sold. There are games taking place that I might be able to get involved in so I will give it a chance at some point before I judge it too harshly. Redundant fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Mar 30, 2019 |
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Mar 30, 2019 12:51
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I truly hope people can see through that review. “Our large group of close and highly social friends in their 20s and 30s got together in a nice big apartment and drank and talked and laughed until 1am, Blood on the Clock Tower is a fantastic game easily worth over $100.” It may be the greatest game ever made, but arguably only if played in preferable conditions. Trying to make an 8-13 player game fly is tough. Many friend groups of board gamers aren’t that big. Teaching and running the game at a public game night seems difficult. And we can never forget that the SU&SD crew all seem like theatre kids, jumping at every opportunity to be social and play act a role. I’m glad that works for them, but I know far more people that get into the deductions rather than the roles. I may be enough of a masochist to do a print and play, which are around, and test it out, but botct looks like a $30 werewolf in $100 demon’s clothing to me.
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Mar 30, 2019 12:59
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Any impressions on Roll for the Galaxy: Rivalry? I like playing the original+Ambition, and the expansion modes really seem to add a lot of depth to it.
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Mar 30, 2019 13:49
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The Narrator posted:I'm surprised there hasn't been more of an attempt to do an app-based, TV-less traitor game. Basically thinking of a Jackbox version of Mafia/Werewolf but your phone just gives you your role and the moderation is all done for you One Night Ultimate Werewolf has an app that does all the nighttime narration for you. It's also a 15 minute version with no incremental player elimination, therefore it's the best social deduction game.
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Mar 30, 2019 15:06
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Seems like we could just do a PBF of Blood on the Clocktower and work out whether it's the second coming of Vlaada or an overhyped Werewolf
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Mar 30, 2019 16:21
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Are there rules out there?
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Mar 30, 2019 19:10
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Mr. Squishy posted:Are there rules out there? They are linked in the Kickstarter.
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Mar 30, 2019 23:04
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Ordered and picked up The Forgotten Folk expansion to Caverna and had a chance to bust it out this weekend, and... wow. If The Norwegians addresses the complaints I had about A Feast For Odin, The Forgotten Folk addresses the complaints I had about Caverna. Eight different races to play, or you can play original dwarves and still pick an expansion race anyway, because what they also do is replace some buildings in the base game with their own variants. So, variable setup, a lot more variety in gameplay -- let me spell it out. One player played the Mountain Dwarves. They can overhang in the cave all the time for 2 gold a pop, and when they build buildings they can substitute ore or stone in any amount for wood. But when they would put a double tile on the field outside, instead they have to choose to put a meadow or a field out there. They don't lose points for uncovered forests. One player played the Cheaty Elves. They start the game with 2 gemfruit, which are planted and harvested like vegetables and can be traded in for rubies when in the supply. For purposes of planting things and building buildings and pastures, they can treat forests as though they were meadows, fields, or even empty caverns, but not for purposes of sheepdog. When they would put a double tile on the mountain inside, instead they can choose to pay 1 ruby per tile they want to cover to hire a dwarf to do it for them. They don't lose points for uncovered anything, because gently caress caves, hug trees. The player built some of the elf buildings outside which give bonus food for uncovered forests, and would have won with their giant pile of gemfruit if the mountain dwarf player hadn't built the treasure storage out from under them. (Amusingly, between the cuddle room, the breakfast room, the entry dwelling, and the mine, all their animals were inside. In the flesh hole. Where flesh belongs.) Instead I won. I played the Trolls. Trolls can turn any animal into at least 2 food, even dogs. Whenever they go adventuring, they loot one extra thing. However, they can't make normal weapons - they have to spend 2 wood to build a 4-strength wooden club and can't upgrade it past 10-strength. And at harvest time each grown-up troll eats 3 food instead. I built a dog school turn 1, adventured like heck to find all the good boys, and shoved them all down my gullet. I would also have made candles out of their gristle, but I didn't find room to build that building. Got plenty of points from the Dark Elf extra buildings, though, especially the charcoal burner, turning 3 wood into 3 gold every harvest since neither of the other players had much incentive to take the wood spaces. It's a good expansion. A few more plays and I'll know if it's a great one.
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Mar 31, 2019 04:12
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Roluth posted:Any impressions on Roll for the Galaxy: Rivalry? I like playing the original+Ambition, and the expansion modes really seem to add a lot of depth to it. I really like Roll but I can never get it to the table with my usual group, who think it's just ok. Rivalry looks really cool (especially with the dice customization) but I might skip it because I can't play it often.
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Mar 31, 2019 07:44
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discount cathouse posted:Quinns is straight up telling people they're not real gamers unless they back 150$ kickstarters. I guess the pro-consumer sentiment was Paul's. Yeah they're really getting high off sniffing their own farts these days. Quinns has made comments in the past about how important he thinks he is.
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Mar 31, 2019 14:42
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Really it sounds like he got overly excited as opposed to tastemaking. SUSD is basically board game hype machine and they do a good job bringing a fresh new crowd to this old dusty hobby even if I don't agree with anything they say.
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Mar 31, 2019 15:55
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CaptainRightful posted:One Night Ultimate Werewolf has an app that does all the nighttime narration for you. It's also a 15 minute version with no incremental player elimination, therefore it's the best social deduction game. 1 minute to shuffle and distribute cards, nighttime takes 2 minutes, and the countdown clock on the app is 5 minutes. At 8 minutes a round I've had groups play 5 in a row and have a blast with each one. You get to commit to huge and sometimes stupid gambits, the information is completely fresh each round, and multiple players get to experience winning over a few rounds. It is absolutely the best social deduction game.
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Mar 31, 2019 16:00
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Adonis posted:Yeah they're really getting high off sniffing their own farts these days. Quinns has made comments in the past about how important he thinks he is. I mean, as far as board game media personalities (not publishers/designers), I think the only people with comparable or greater reach are Wil Wheaton (but that's over, I think?), Tom Vasel (but he's easy to please) and maybe Rodney Smith (but he doesn't review). Then again, I'm basing this off of subscriber/view count on YouTube and that might be flawed. I mean, ProZD (a YouTube comedian with about 2 million subs) has view numbers on his board game reviews that are somewhat comparable to the Dice Tower and SUSD, though his channel isn't devoted to the hobby in the same way. I'm not saying, "Yes, Quinns should definitely remain conceited" but he would not be wrong to recognize the influence of the brand he's created.
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Mar 31, 2019 16:14
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