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In ST VI, even the early scene where the Starfleet bigwigs are discussing the Praxis crisis has a couple of very klunky edits or transitions. It feels like it was supposed to be longer.
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Apr 1, 2019 06:03
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Oh really? How did I get the idea he was Deltan then? Weird. I think the novelization might have said he was Deltan, for some reason.
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Apr 1, 2019 06:11
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think the novelization might have said he was Deltan, for some reason. I'm pretty sure the credits for IV also run with Deltan for the comms officer on one of the first disabled ships
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Apr 1, 2019 06:22
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They must have confused Delta IV and Delta City.
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Apr 1, 2019 06:32
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Which brings up an observation I had watching ST6 recently. The dinner scene is awful. There, I said it. The Klingons are very adept at using the Federation's ideals against them, but it's 1. baldly cynical on their part, given everything we see of Klingon society even in the film in isolation, and 2. none of the dialogue flows at all. Some individual lines are memorable, which papers it over somewhat, but the characters aren't really responding to each other at all for the most part. I get that they're supposed to be at odds and not communicating well, but it's like it was edited down from a much longer scene into something that barely makes sense.
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Apr 1, 2019 06:39
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lol but seriously I posted:remember that the klingon "honour" stuff is bullshit that only worf is naive enough to take at face value Worf is analogous to an adopted Norwegian kid raised by Latino parents in New York who spends his whole childhood deciding to train to be a glorious viking without ever bothering to spend some time in actual modern Norway first. Except, like, the Klingon culture being centered on being much bigger assholes than Norway, and all that.
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Apr 1, 2019 06:39
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Agnosticnixie posted:I'm pretty sure the credits for IV also run with Deltan for the comms officer on one of the first disabled ships There were also a couple Deltans during the Federation Council scene in ST4.
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Apr 1, 2019 06:48
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Number_6 posted:In ST VI, even the early scene where the Starfleet bigwigs are discussing the Praxis crisis has a couple of very klunky edits or transitions. It feels like it was supposed to be longer. ST VI had a very lengthy prologue written by Denny Martin Flinn wherein Kirk went around to round up the crew for one final mission. It would have been obscenely expensive to shoot--not to mention that when put into novel form it was loving awful--so it got scrapped and so they tossed in a few tidbits, like Scotty buying a boat, from that prologue. Editing-wise, it's been a while since I've read my copy of the shooting script and it's 1 a.m. here in Wisconsin so like gently caress if I'm digging it out of a box, but I'm pretty sure it's essentially 1:1 with what's on the screen, with maybe only a line or two cut.
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Apr 1, 2019 06:59
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lol but seriously I posted:remember that the klingon "honour" stuff is bullshit that only worf is naive enough to take at face value I know a bunch of people kinda dislike You're cordially invited, but I love the chronicle scene and the fact that Martok is the one who takes it upon himself to tell Worf to get over himself immediately after their fight. Having a Klingon who isn't up that far up his rear end with aristocratic propaganda on the show was good.
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Apr 1, 2019 07:26
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The Valiant setup made sense to me; the Federation is only just starting to mass-produce Defiant ships as a class and still working out the kinks during rapidly escalating wartime, so might as well use new recruits on a new ship to familiarise themselves with what they're likely to be crewing in crisis situations and maybe they'll figure out stuff that the adults miss. Especially since it's likely that Red Squad alumni will be piloting Defiants for real in the next couple of years. It's all well and good until suddenly the adults are out of the picture and you have a bunch of power-mad kids with a shiny new toy and zero supervision. Besides, the episode probably wouldn't have worked anywhere near as well with an outdated old training ship whose capabilities are well known; in theory, they could do anything with the Valiant that Sisko could do with the Defiant, right?
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Apr 1, 2019 08:35
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Rethinking of this, all the Martok stuff in s6-7 makes me feel his chancellorship after S7 can basically go one of two ways: either he tries to ingratiate himself with the more conservative elements in klingon society and hopes his marriage into upper nobility is good enough to pull a Cicero, or he turns into a "tear everything down" reformer whose administration is probably darkened by back to back civil wars caused by attempts to break the power of the great houses, hoping that something viable comes out of the mess. Both probably with a huge chance of getting murdered along the way. Also like you still won't see one of the Virginias crewed entirely by Annapolis cadets on their midshipman cruise. If anything it feels like the episode's point is also that mentorship is good even if you're some kind of A student golden boy.
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Apr 1, 2019 10:07
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The Red Squad sabotage stuff is easy to explain away. "Hey we're doing a pretty hardcore counterforce training exercise here today. Don't worry, the power outage won't last long, all phasers are set on stun. In order to really sell this we won't tell your REDFOR who's coming for them or when. In this time of serious threats to the homeworld we need to be ready and this exercise will be a key part of it."
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Apr 1, 2019 10:20
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Basically all I'm saying re Martok is if the Dis showrunners wanted to do prestige drama GOT bullshit there's literally a good hook at the end of DS9 that Nemesis threw to the wind to write the single most retarded Trek movie plot until ID.
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Apr 1, 2019 10:57
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Don't forget to throw in the Romulan Empire being smashed apart by the supernova just as the Klingons Balkanize in this scenario too.
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Apr 1, 2019 11:01
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Just finished the DS9 episode where Sisko and Dukat are trapped together and Dukat is bonkers. loving hell that was good. Especially after watching the first Ro Laren episode of TNG. Really puts the Federation/Cardassian relationship into perspective.
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Apr 1, 2019 12:19
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think the novelization might have said he was Deltan, for some reason. I did read the novelization at some point, so that's likely it.
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Apr 1, 2019 12:56
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Automatic Slim posted:*That whole episode was Leyton’s test in Ethics for the class of ‘72 and they FAILED.
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Apr 1, 2019 13:36
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MikeJF posted:Don't forget to throw in the Romulan Empire being smashed apart by the supernova Actually, I rather would.
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Apr 1, 2019 13:50
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Which brings up an observation I had watching ST6 recently. The dinner scene is awful. There, I said it. The Klingons are very adept at using the Federation's ideals against them, but it's 1. baldly cynical on their part, given everything we see of Klingon society even in the film in isolation, and 2. none of the dialogue flows at all. Some individual lines are memorable, which papers it over somewhat, but the characters aren't really responding to each other at all for the most part. I get that they're supposed to be at odds and not communicating well, but it's like it was edited down from a much longer scene into something that barely makes sense. This strikes me as a take on the Soviet Union's tactic of Whataboutism, complete with the moral hypocrisy that entails. It just comes off nonsensical because The Federation, for all its faults, is in no ways the Jim-Crow-era 1960s United States. Also come to think of it the only time there's been a human Federation president (aside from the implication that Archer is one of the earliest such presidents) is in novels. Every other time it's been an alien.
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Apr 1, 2019 14:27
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It's a pity a lot of the people in charge hated the makeup for andorians (and to a lesser extent tellarites) considering at that point the beta cannon stuff that made them two of the four founding powers of the UFP was already vaguely accepted, movie budgets feels like they'd have been a good time to throw a bunch of them in the core crew instead of just on the council (along with other aliens since TVH really seems to have gone nuts on the new never-seen-before federation aliens)
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Apr 1, 2019 14:33
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Angry_Ed posted:Also come to think of it the only time there's been a human Federation president (aside from the implication that Archer is one of the earliest such presidents) is in novels. Every other time it's been an alien. The first Federation President we ever see (in Star Trek 4) is human.
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Apr 1, 2019 14:46
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Drone posted:The first Federation President we ever see (in Star Trek 4) is human. Whoops, I completely blanked on that. Still, after that point, onscreen at least, it was an alien.
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Apr 1, 2019 15:06
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Agnosticnixie posted:It's a pity a lot of the people in charge hated the makeup for andorians (and to a lesser extent tellarites) considering at that point the beta cannon stuff that made them two of the four founding powers of the UFP was already vaguely accepted, movie budgets feels like they'd have been a good time to throw a bunch of them in the core crew instead of just on the council (along with other aliens since TVH really seems to have gone nuts on the new never-seen-before federation aliens) There are a couple of Andorians in the crowd TMP when the whole Enterprise crew is assembled. (With, it must be said, really crappy makeup.) And there's a couple of Andorian officers in IV. Odd that there's none in the crowd at Khitomer in VI. I really hope the Picard series gives us some Andorians, even just in the background; we've never seen any past the 23rd century, and I'd like to know they're alright...
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Apr 1, 2019 15:35
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I hope they kept all the Andorian makeup stuff from Enterprise in a box somewhere.
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Apr 1, 2019 15:41
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Angry Salami posted:
Well, there was this one:  And also this one in the background on Risa while Picard was rocking his silver speedo: 
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Apr 1, 2019 15:44
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Jesus, those peanut heads
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Apr 1, 2019 15:48
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Bedshaped posted:Just finished the DS9 episode where Sisko and Dukat are trapped together and Dukat is bonkers. loving hell that was good. Especially after watching the first Ro Laren episode of TNG. This episode has one of my favorite Sisko hammy bits, where Dukat is ranting about how he was a great leader for Bajor and Sisko just stops and screams "EVIDENCE!"
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Apr 1, 2019 16:04
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Brawnfire posted:Jesus, those peanut heads  Alternatively: "We come from France!"
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Apr 1, 2019 16:05
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It's funny that you can basically see the limitations of makeup of the time. The big hair was obviously there to hide the support structure for the stalks.
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Apr 1, 2019 16:07
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Discovery’s Andorian and Tellarite designs are good.
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Apr 1, 2019 16:14
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They gotta stop eliding the porcine qualities of Tellarites, tho. That's the fun part of them!
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Apr 1, 2019 16:17
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marktheando posted:Discovery’s Andorian and Tellarite designs are good. Aren't Disco's tellarites, like, not even short? 
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Apr 1, 2019 16:23
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Any depiction of Tellarites that don't include hooves are objectively wrong.
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Apr 1, 2019 16:25
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Angry_Ed posted:Whoops, I completely blanked on that. Still, after that point, onscreen at least, it was an alien. All both of them.
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Apr 1, 2019 16:52
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bull3964 posted:It's funny that you can basically see the limitations of makeup of the time. The big hair was obviously there to hide the support structure for the stalks. I don't have a TOS screenshot handy but I do not recall TOS Andorians having heads that big. Number_6 posted:In ST VI, even the early scene where the Starfleet bigwigs are discussing the Praxis crisis has a couple of very klunky edits or transitions. It feels like it was supposed to be longer. I'm guessing that's partly the result of stitching different takes together. For example, Admiral Cartwright's diatribe starting with "I must protest! ..." consists of two different takes cut together... the story I've heard is that Brock Turner found it so distasteful he couldn't get through it in a single take.
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Apr 1, 2019 16:55
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I don't have a TOS screenshot handy but I do not recall TOS Andorians having heads that big. Not hardly.  TNG Andorians were just hilariously and inexplicably terrible
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Apr 1, 2019 16:57
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The Bloop posted:Well, there was this one: The really dumb thing about TNG's hideous designs is that IV has both Tellarites and Andorians in the council scene and their makeup is genuinely good, it feels more like a deliberate "I hate andorians and I'll deliberately gently caress the design up" thing than a budget or tech limitation, I'm still convinced the freighter captain in one of the early DS9 eps is supposed to be Tellarite though even if it's basically unsaid  Also IV came out mid season 2 of TNG so I'm not sure I'd buy the technical issue with the lovely wig Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Apr 1, 2019 |
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Apr 1, 2019 17:00
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I don't have a TOS screenshot handy but I do not recall TOS Andorians having heads that big. The stalks we're a lot shorter though. Also, I'm not sure if the TNG stuff moves on its own but if it did it would require a hidden mechanism.
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Apr 1, 2019 17:16
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Errand of Mercy? Rura Penthe? I guess the latter isn't strictly comparable but it's a small leap from there, even if you discount the TOS TV Klingons. "The Aliens' Graveyard." Yeah, but the historical context for this fits perfectly with the movies obvious Cold War metaphor. The Soviets criticized the US about our civil rights conflicts all the time, but then massively quashed and imprisoned non-Russian ethnicities in their own borders. This is a thing that actually happened historically.
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Apr 1, 2019 17:17
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I don’t like how Disco inexplicably decided to down-pitch Andorian voices though.
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Apr 1, 2019 17:17
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