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pdxjohan posted:Next weeks dev diary for Imperator will be good for you then. This would be an extremely mean April Fool's joke.
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Apr 2, 2019 08:05
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VostokProgram posted:I don't know what game mechanics Hoi5 will have but Hoi6 will be played with sticks and stones Lol
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Apr 2, 2019 14:26
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Imperator is absolutely going to be a March of the Eagles/Sengoku style proof-of-concept title/quickly abandoned cash grab
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Apr 2, 2019 16:58
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VostokProgram posted:I don't know what game mechanics Hoi5 will have but Hoi6 will be played with sticks and stones 
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Apr 2, 2019 17:03
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Paradox is making a John Romero strategy game.
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Apr 2, 2019 17:05
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Paradox is going to revive Magna Mundi
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Apr 2, 2019 17:07
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Average Bear posted:Imperator is absolutely going to be a March of the Eagles/Sengoku style proof-of-concept title/quickly abandoned cash grab I said a few months ago that I was getting this vibe and got shouted down but I still feel like there’s a decent chance this is true.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:33
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pdxjohan posted:Next weeks dev diary for Imperator will be good for you then. holy gently caress
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Apr 2, 2019 18:38
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Average Bear posted:Imperator is absolutely going to be a March of the Eagles/Sengoku style proof-of-concept title/quickly abandoned cash grab proof of concept for what? Many of the mechanics developed for it are explicitly designed for the ancient world. There is some improvement on mechanics that could translate to Victoria or EU or something but nothing like Sengoku being a testing ground for CK2
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Apr 2, 2019 18:41
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Average Bear posted:Imperator is absolutely going to be a March of the Eagles/Sengoku style proof-of-concept title/quickly abandoned cash grab It would hold true to EU: Rome then since that was basically an EU3 spinoff
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Apr 2, 2019 18:42
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They've spent way too much advertising I:R for it to not be a new mainline title, especially with EU4 and CK2 approaching maintenance status
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Apr 2, 2019 18:59
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pdxjohan posted:Next weeks dev diary for Imperator will be good for you then. 
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Apr 2, 2019 19:18
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johan right now: okay, we need a way to automate the armies
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Apr 2, 2019 19:22
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One thing that's gone unsaid but is worth mentioning is that the "Armies As Discrete Particles of Statistics Moving Around on a Map" model lends itself to pen and paper wargaming where you've got people who are good at moving particles around and bad at computing rules that are more complex than particles. Computers are currently just plain bad at moving discrete stat particles around in a strategically effective manner, and if it's doing the computation for us then why cling to particles other than the ability to attach NATO tokens to individual particles? For industrial warfare, having a solid front is so important that it just doesn't make sense to do anything else, so it's crippling the AI to force it to work its way up to that level of abstraction from particles. If the game starts with that abstraction and just lets the AI work from there, then the computer has a much better chance of doing things effectively. In HOI4, the battle planner doesn't work with individual stats particles and people are perfectly fine with that. You draw out lines, point out where to attack, where to fall back and so forth. Translating it back just seems to overcomplicate things.
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Apr 2, 2019 19:25
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OK, what if we modeled armies as both a particle and a wave?
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Apr 2, 2019 19:29
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1337JiveTurkey posted:One thing that's gone unsaid but is worth mentioning is that the "Armies As Discrete Particles of Statistics Moving Around on a Map" model lends itself to pen and paper wargaming where you've got people who are good at moving particles around and bad at computing rules that are more complex than particles. Computers are currently just plain bad at moving discrete stat particles around in a strategically effective manner, and if it's doing the computation for us then why cling to particles other than the ability to attach NATO tokens to individual particles? While I get your point and am actually net positive on trying a front abstraction model, specifically using HOI4 as an example would be a terrible idea. Yes, having front lines was imperative in WW2, and the entire purpose of tanks/mechanized/motorized infantry was to be able to punch through / maneuver around that front and cause disorder in the back lines and encirclement. Switching things to a “non particle based” front model would lose that dynamic.
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Apr 2, 2019 19:29
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Flavius Aetass posted:johan right now: okay, we need a way to automate the armies Having fronts and battleplans with a general in charge of them (and gaining the loyalty of all the armies within them) seems like a good way to avoid the "multiple stacks so no general can ever be a threat" issue; besides the obvious automation benefits
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Apr 2, 2019 20:09
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Army automation could work very nicely with loyalty and corruption mechanics. Provide a nice little grey area between full rebellion and directly obeying every order. Probably a lot of the mechanics could be brought around into the colonial parts of EU. Barbarians could also cover dealing with the areas that are just terra incognita. Technologically, whatever method they use for managing the huge number of provinces in Imperator could come in handy too. Automating exploration might also make sense for EU.
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Apr 2, 2019 20:11
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Average Bear posted:Imperator is absolutely going to be a March of the Eagles/Sengoku style proof-of-concept title/quickly abandoned cash grab No way, its gonna sell like gangbusters because its Rome and they've spent a lot more time marketing it than those games.
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Apr 2, 2019 20:14
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Cantorsdust posted:While I get your point and am actually net positive on trying a front abstraction model, specifically using HOI4 as an example would be a terrible idea. Yes, having front lines was imperative in WW2, and the entire purpose of tanks/mechanized/motorized infantry was to be able to punch through / maneuver around that front and cause disorder in the back lines and encirclement. Switching things to a “non particle based” front model would lose that dynamic. You can still model that sort of thing though. An abstracted front can still model how divisions are more or less densely situated along the front including breaks where there's no density along one side. When that happens, the line can shift rapidly so long as one side has and encirclements can happen as a special case. In some ways it's better because with discrete units there aren't really back lines to disrupt as such because they're inherently homogenous unless you break things down absurdly far.
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Apr 2, 2019 20:14
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Bring back Hoi 3 OOB/CoC.
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Apr 2, 2019 20:21
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To bring back a topic we discussed a while back, date tooltip now shows BCE, rejoice nerds who were upset about numbers. Screengrab from the latest Imperator stream: 
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Apr 2, 2019 21:17
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Fellblade posted:To bring back a topic we discussed a while back, date tooltip now shows BCE, rejoice nerds who were upset about numbers.  I mean the game is named Imperator, it only seems right to use their dating system
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Apr 2, 2019 21:21
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in the year of Our Groogy, 476.5.4
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Apr 2, 2019 23:08
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This is gonna be a weird one because I have definitely played the game before but don't want to start up a new save at the present just because I Read Some Historical Article: ...is there an abdication mechanic in CK2 short of the suicide plot when you're depressed, or really stupid metagaming of failed revocation war CB's? I honestly cannot remember. Thats.... a very historically important thing to not have, in the medieval period history mapgame.
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Apr 2, 2019 23:17
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Willie Tomg posted:This is gonna be a weird one because I have definitely played the game before but don't want to start up a new save at the present just because I Read Some Historical Article: I think it's deliberate that it's not in there because a big part of the game is not quite knowing when you're going to switch to your heir. If you could abdicate freely then everyone would just do it as soon as their strong genius son turned 16.
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Apr 2, 2019 23:23
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Willie Tomg posted:This is gonna be a weird one because I have definitely played the game before but don't want to start up a new save at the present just because I Read Some Historical Article: There's not, but I've seen mods that let you do it. Or you can just console kill yourself.
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Apr 2, 2019 23:25
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Voluntarily abdicating also was super duper mega rare in the time period and parts of the world CK2 takes place
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Apr 2, 2019 23:34
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I think it's deliberate that it's not in there because a big part of the game is not quite knowing when you're going to switch to your heir. If you could abdicate freely then everyone would just do it as soon as their strong genius son turned 16. This is one of the best parts of the game for me. It might not be historical, and a bit gamey, but I love the uncertainty that you get towards the end of a particularly good king's life where you have the stats and the positive relations to wage war, but the dude's 76 and if he dies in the middle, your failure of a son who was 3rd in line for the throne will take over because the two first wunderkinds died for one reason or another and your realm will spin apart because everyone hates him because he's lazy and fat and oh god the French are in a two-front war and now is my only realistic chance to beat themAHSDGDFGHS!
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Apr 2, 2019 23:38
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:proof of concept for what? Many of the mechanics developed for it are explicitly designed for the ancient world. There is some improvement on mechanics that could translate to Victoria or EU or something but nothing like Sengoku being a testing ground for CK2 Victoria 3 baby
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Apr 2, 2019 23:45
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Average Bear posted:Victoria 3 baby I want Vicky 3 to have character mechanics, so I can marry Karl Marx to Queen Victoria.
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Apr 2, 2019 23:47
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The closest I know of is you can be deposed by your faction in favor of your heir. I'm not particularly sure how that happens though. CK2 also likes to maintain the conceit that you are your character, not the country your character rules, so it'd probably not let you swap characters unless your character lost all his land in the process of abdication. I think a lot of abdication is a relatively newer thing, since it goes against the spirit of the monarch appointed by divine right. There's also the whole angle that your castle isn't just the key part of your domain, it's your house. There's no retiring to obscurity when the seat of power is a few doors down. Unless something big happens to make people stop listening to you, your say will still matter. There were a bunch of more complicated situations with things like Charles the Hammer and the Karling line being the "mayors of the palace" and the power behind the throne before Charlemagne finally took the power directly (and got the Pope to give it legitimacy), but most of that predates CK2's timeline.
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Apr 2, 2019 23:47
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SlothfulCobra posted:The closest I know of is you can be deposed by your faction in favor of your heir. I'm not particularly sure how that happens though. CK2 also likes to maintain the conceit that you are your character, not the country your character rules, so it'd probably not let you swap characters unless your character lost all his land in the process of abdication. Hell even in the 30s abdication was still a big deal. Despite the monarchy not having actual power in the UK for centuries at that point.
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Apr 2, 2019 23:56
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Average Bear posted:Victoria 3 baby just lol if you think victoria 3 will be a more popular setting than imperator
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Apr 3, 2019 00:16
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I do fear that Imperator will be a little barebones at launch, but I very heavily doubt paradox plans on dropping support for it immediately after release or anything like that. This is clearly a new mainline title for them. I wouldn't be surprised if the DLC plays up the character interactions so it can serve as the replacement for CK2.
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Apr 3, 2019 00:45
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:just lol if you think victoria 3 will be a more popular setting than imperator just lol if you think anybody in the victoria 3 fancrew cares
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Apr 3, 2019 00:55
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In the real world, the king abdicating didn't mean he suddenly possessed his heir and kept on ruling through a different body. In a hypothetical CK where unlanded characters were meaningfully playable, you could make abdication work - if you abdicate, you don't immediately start playing as your heir, instead you mess around as an unlanded character until you actually die. The player's innate desire to maintain control would therefore mirror the real-world king's desire, thus making abdication a thing that happens only when it really makes sense.
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Apr 3, 2019 00:56
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Hell even in the 30s abdication was still a big deal. Despite the monarchy not having actual power in the UK for centuries at that point. Lookin’ at you, EU4
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Apr 3, 2019 01:45
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Jabor posted:In the real world, the king abdicating didn't mean he suddenly possessed his heir and kept on ruling through a different body. In the real world, your consciousness doesn't immediately possess a designated heir the day you die, either. Therefore, CK3 should give you one life to live and it's game over when you die. You can make an argument for abdication not switching player control to a new character, but this would be neither more nor less realistic than the current system. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 01:59
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None of it is realistic, the point is that it encourages somewhat more realistic behaviours.
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Apr 3, 2019 02:11
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