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Exactly who are the posters, and where are the posts by them, supporting any level of physical intervention (army or 'FBI' as the prior poster said) by the USA? I think almost everyone here has stated clearly they agree it would be almost certainly a disaster. There may be a fringe element here advocating US military intervention, but it's opposed by 99% of the posters here, including me.
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Apr 2, 2019 11:40
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Maduro announced last night that he was replacing Minister of Electrical Energy Luis Motta Dominguez with Igor Gavidia Leon, effective immediately. Motta Dominguez is a National Guard general, and he took over the ministry in 2015. As you can imagine, when he was assigned to the position there were lots of questions about why we should put a soldier with no relevant technical experience or knowledge whatsoever in charge of the country's electrical grid, and here we are today. I've never heard of Gavidia, but Maduro said that he is electrical engineer with 25 years of experience. A quick Google Search turned up this short article with some of his experience, which at least reads well. Because Maduro is allergic to admitting fault, he said that the reason why he was replacing Motta Dominguez was so that he could "rest".
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Apr 2, 2019 13:44
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Entirely expected that the electric utility was a typical "mismanaged to collapse by installed regime loyalists" story, but I would be interested to know what the electrical grid situation was in 2015 prior to this spoils appointment.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:02
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Kavros posted:Entirely expected that the electric utility was a typical "mismanaged to collapse by installed regime loyalists" story, but I would be interested to know what the electrical grid situation was in 2015 prior to this spoils appointment. https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSTRE61801720100209 Props on blaming it on the drought but you’ll notice mothing was ever done. If memory serves right it then became sabotage, but I’m not in a good position to find it right now
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Apr 2, 2019 15:22
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Zidrooner posted:If Guaido gets his way then he or whoever else is in his party gains power will gut social services, implement austerity, privatize and let US oil companies rape the land with with none of the profits going to the newly impoverished people. -Social services have already been gutted to such a degree that the UN reports that 94% of the country now lives in poverty. The money meant for social services has instead created newly rich individuals who send the money to places like Panama, Switzerland, the US, etc. You claim to hate the wealth disparity, but obviously you are a liar and/or have no clue what you are babbling about, because the richest people in the country are those that have taken from the Veneuzelan people for the last decade plus, accelerated significantly under Maduro. These are called the boliburguesía, a class of wealthy individuals created from graft from the social services that no longer exist. -Forced austerity has been taking place, because of an extreme economic downturn created by disastrous economic policies and a "brain drain"/largest refugee crisis in the history of the Americas, which has completely evaporated tax revenues.  -Russia, China, and Cuba right now take the bulk of the Venezuelan people's oil, at no cost. The last two big customers of Venezuela were the US (up until 60 days ago) and India. Only India remains, and they buy a small percentage of Venzeuala's total output, compared to what Russia, China, and Cuba take for free. -And of course the guns that you have so lovingly placed in the hands of the pro-dictator gangs...remember that Russia has basically given Venezuela a shitload of weapons on credit. Their quid pro quo is hegemony, a foreign influence which you seem to despise, but again you are a liar and/or have no clue what you are babbling about, because Russia has already done far worse than what you have feverishly imagined the US of wanting to do. Through the prism of a one-track mind, you have completely distorted the reality in Venezuela to what you want it to be, rather than what it is, and can't distinguish between what propaganda tells you will happen, and what has already happened under your nose.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:49
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Private Witt posted:Through the prism of a one-track mind, you have completely distorted the reality in Venezuela to what you want it to be, rather than what it is, and can't distinguish between what propaganda tells you will happen, and what has already happened under your nose. It took me a while to figure out why so many people view austerity as the big negative consequence of an opposition victory. After Venezuelan public spending fell off a cliff in 2013 and has just kept falling since. All the clinics are shuttered, the CLAP boxes rarely arrive, the hospitals have no medicine and basic infrastructure maintenance has been canceled. I think I've realized though that most of the people who bring it up are projecting their own local political issues onto Venezuela, and that explains most of their views that otherwise don't make sense. I mean "austerity" hardly makes sense in the context of Venezuelan, a country which has little capacity to deficit spend. Instead these people are really expressing their fears about Tory austerity or Republican budget cuts, and Venezuelan politics are like a blank canvas for them to project their own political contests and anxieties.
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Apr 2, 2019 16:28
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Man, a lack of electricity is one thing, it cripples the country, but a near permanent lack of water to Caracas seems like it could get horrific in a depressing sort of way.quote:“Caracas depends on a network of reservoirs and pumping systems that are in very poor condition,” said David Marrero, a member of the public services team from the El Hatillo municipality. “When there is no electricity, there is no pumping, and Caracas runs out of water.” Meanwhile, the regime is trying to extract profits in the crisis by selling water at jacked up prices to anyone who can afford it. This is some anarcho capitalist poo poo right here. quote:The water system has been hanging by a thread for months. The military, which enjoys many economic franchises granted by Maduro, lords over the supply, cornering a lucrative trade and selling truck loads to those who can pay for it. A drought during the seasonal dry season has worsened the water situation, driving the price up even more.
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Apr 2, 2019 16:30
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Private Witt posted:I am treating as absurd ... (2) the idea that the opposition is accused of engaging in movie-style attacks (EMPs, hacking, a sniper) with ZERO evidence. brugroffil posted:A sniper attack isn't movie style Just circling back to this newly hilarious exchange, the government has released evidence now of the "sniping attack." Turns out they were filming the sniper the whole time! Starts halfway through this video. https://twitter.com/miguelhotero/status/1112853492933279746 And as a reminder, the government has previously said that the early March blackout attack by the US was modeled after Die Hard 4.
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Apr 2, 2019 17:47
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Are you sure that's not a parody?
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Apr 2, 2019 17:53
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I did a bit of digging and it turns out that the video has been edited to add Bradley Cooper doing his thing in American Sniper. Here's the original clip of Rodriguez explaining the sniper attack, and as you can see, no Bradley Cooper. It sucks that it's making the rounds on Twitter as a "real" clip. It sucks even more that Miguel Otero (the head of of El Nacional) is sharing it on his Twitter account. It doesn't help that a lot of his tweets (specially to links to other articles or material like this) is often shared with little context, as in this case where all we get is "Increible!!!".
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Apr 2, 2019 17:57
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Private Witt posted:Just circling back to this newly hilarious exchange, the government has released evidence now of the "sniping attack." Turns out they were filming the sniper the whole time! Starts halfway through this video. what's extra hilarious about the reflexive stupidity is that you actually can literally google footage of the sniper attack on Metcalf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N-4tynUMJo It's still entirely possible, and even likely!, that these failures are due to improper maintenance or operation. But this thread knee-jerked about how ridiculous and absurd it was to even consider cyber attacks on critical infrastructure, and then it did the same with a sniper attack, despite both of those things actually happening in different countries previously. Even just the idea of "damage critical infrastructure to help cause unrest" was treated as some nutty fantasy "movie-style" idea.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:01
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brugroffil posted:what's extra hilarious about the reflexive stupidity is that you actually can literally google footage of the sniper attack on Metcalf Again, you confuse threat and risk. I thought you were a professional?
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Apr 2, 2019 18:22
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There's a large crowd of people trying to cross the Simon Bolivar Ibternational Bridge right now into Venezuela. The border crossing there has been closed since around February 23 on Maduro's order. Because it's such a vital crossing for people moving from Venezuela into Colombia looking for food, work, medical attention, etc., people have still be crossing the border through the brush to the sides of the bridge. There's a river that acts as the border in that area, but apparently the water level is too high to cross on foot right now, hence the move for the bridge. https://twitter.com/ConflictsW/status/1113128048570888192
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Apr 2, 2019 18:39
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Rust Martialis posted:Again, you confuse threat and risk. I thought you were a professional? It's classified as a low frequency, high impact threat. Not a "fantasy movie-style attack only an idiot would consider feasible." I provided the link to a pretty relevant DoE/NERC document detailing these sorts of threats, including from both long guns and cyber infiltration (e: and even "highly portable" EMI devices), a number of pages ago. Probably of sophisticated attacks on critical infrastructure probably ticks up a few notches when there's an active attempt to throw out the de facto government backed by multiple foreign countries! brugroffil fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Apr 2, 2019 |
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Apr 2, 2019 19:10
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brugroffil posted:It's classified as a low frequency, high impact threat. Not a "fantasy movie-style attack only an idiot would consider feasible." I provided the link to a pretty relevant DoE/NERC document detailing these sorts of threats, including from both long guns and cyber loo infiltration, a number of pages ago. Okay, but doing a risk analysis, which is how I would approach the subject as opposed to a vanilla threat analysis, maintenance-related outages are order-of-magnitude-plus higher risks. If I seemed dismissive of the *threat* of a sniper attack, well no, obviously it's a threat; but barring evidence of an attack, I feel somewhat dismissive of the *risk* of a sniper attack causing the outage compared to shoddy maintenance, lack of undergrowth clearing, and unskilled workers. I think it's a not unreasonable position. But yes, the sniper scenario is a plausible threat. I think this may be the most civil moment we may have had with each other.
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Apr 2, 2019 19:20
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President goodest brain with this take on the electrical crisis in the country manages to outdo even Maduro: https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1113093124585385985
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Apr 2, 2019 19:24
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Chuck Boone posted:President goodest brain with this take on the electrical crisis in the country manages to outdo even Maduro: Are they trying to out-idiot each other??
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Apr 2, 2019 19:37
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let-them-fight.gif
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Apr 2, 2019 19:41
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Gervasius posted:Are they trying to out-idiot each other??
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Apr 2, 2019 19:43
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Chuck Boone posted:President goodest brain with this take on the electrical crisis in the country manages to outdo even Maduro: Is there a source? That might be the most ridiculous soundbite to come out of this mess since Maduro said the ghost of Chavez spoke to him as a bird.
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Apr 2, 2019 20:24
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dublish posted:Is there a source? That might be the most ridiculous soundbite to come out of this mess since Maduro said the ghost of Chavez spoke to him as a bird. Yeah, it's in this transcript from the White House.
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Apr 2, 2019 20:42
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For the record, Daniel Dale is basically the Trump speech chronicler of record- he's basically been the point man present at every trump statement from...I think the time he entered office. He's ironclad as a source.
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Apr 2, 2019 21:00
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Chuck Boone posted:Yeah, it's in this transcript from the White House. I'm disappointed. The tweet made it sound like he was actually blaming the blackouts on electric cars. THE PRESIDENT posted:We will probably be talking at some point. We’re looking at Venezuela. Venezuela right now is a big, fat mess. The electricity is gone. Power is gone. Fuel is gone. Gasoline for cars is gone. They have a lot of electric cars. That’s all gone because they have no elec- — they have nothing. What a job. When we talk about socialism, take a look at Venezuela.
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Apr 2, 2019 21:08
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Discendo Vox posted:For the record, Daniel Dale is basically the Trump speech chronicler of record- he's basically been the point man present at every trump statement from...I think the time he entered office. He's ironclad as a source. I'm frankly surprised he hasn't had a psychological breakdown yet.
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Apr 2, 2019 21:18
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm frankly surprised he hasn't had a psychological breakdown yet. His prior job was covering the late Mayor of Toronto, Rob Ford. So he did an apprenticeship.
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Apr 2, 2019 21:42
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Why should he give a poo poo? He gets paid well enough.
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Apr 2, 2019 21:59
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Here's the secret to dealing with Trumpism. America deserved 9/11. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 2, 2019 22:08
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Gervasius posted:Are they trying to out-idiot each other?? Neither has to try, they just do.
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Apr 2, 2019 22:16
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not gonna lie, one of the reasons i wish maduro would just bribe donald to drop the sanctions is that their joint press conferences would be phenomenal
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Apr 2, 2019 23:57
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No! Keith! Turn back! https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/1113241596462620672
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Apr 3, 2019 02:31
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punk rebel ecks posted:No! Keith! Turn back! he's right though, and other US leaders have already admitted as much before when discussing whether further sanctions would make venezuelans too hungry to revolt
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Apr 3, 2019 09:16
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Condiv posted:he's right though, and other US leaders have already admitted as much before when discussing whether further sanctions would make venezuelans too hungry to revolt Sanctions started far, far after shortages did.
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Apr 3, 2019 09:33
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Rust Martialis posted:Sanctions started far, far after shortages did. Even if I accepted that framing, sanctions have only made shortages far far worse They’re indefensible if you care about venezuelans starving and having power outages Condiv fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 11:12
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Condiv posted:And then sanctions made shortages far far worse Sorry but since they started before the sanctions then thats all that matters
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Apr 3, 2019 11:13
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Jose posted:Sorry but since they started before the sanctions then thats all that matters I'm sure it's clear to as clever a poster as yourself, that saying "sanctions make the shortages worse" is different from "the shortages are caused by the sanctions". Only a particularly uninformed person would mix the two statements up, as I'm sure you would agree.
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Apr 3, 2019 12:03
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Jose posted:Sorry but since they started before the sanctions then thats all that matters I get that you can’t (read: don’t want to) keep up with the thread, but could you at least try to keep up with the coversation? Condiv believes that shortages didn’t start until the sanctions. This is false e: beaten Furia fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 12:05
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Condiv posted:Even if I accepted that framing, sanctions have only made shortages far far worse It's pretty important framing considering the substance of the tweet, which explicitly says the government is blameless. You don't have to defend the sanctions, he's still wrong. Like, poo poo, even the Wikipedia article predates the sanctions.
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Apr 3, 2019 12:07
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If I was unclear earlier, I agree the sanctions are making things worse. I think saying this earlier might have avoided any confusion on Condiv's or Jose's part. My apology for any lack of clarity!
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Apr 3, 2019 12:19
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Acebuckeye13 posted:It's pretty important framing considering the substance of the tweet, which explicitly says the government is blameless. You don't have to defend the sanctions, he's still wrong. yeah, i'm gonna have trouble trusting an article that goes ham on blaming price controls on food for shortages.
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Apr 3, 2019 12:26
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Condiv posted:yeah, i'm gonna have trouble trusting an article that goes ham on blaming price controls on food for shortages. Dude I'm not even asking you to trust the article, I'm noting that the page itself was created before sanctions were implemented. The whole point is that blaming the shortages entirely on sanctions is flat-out wrong, and even if sanctions were lifted they wouldn't do a drat thing to address the core problems of the country's economic woes-most of which are the direct result of PSUV mismanagement and corruption. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 12:31
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