Tevery Best posted:That's a lot of negative events, what are your scales? You can kind of see it on my provinces. Production 3, Cold 3, Misfortune 2. It only looks like Cold 1 mostly because seas can only go to +/-1 temperature scale meaning it is KIND OF like free points while you are beneath THE WAVES.
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Apr 3, 2019 14:17
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What does end game Blood look like? I.e. Why does Blood win the late game?
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Apr 3, 2019 15:06
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Blood lets you summon powerful casters late game that summon OTHER casters or a shitton of vampires. Imagine Dracula stomping on your face, forever.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:14
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Ynglaur posted:What does end game Blood look like? I.e. Why does Blood win the late game? The currency to use blood magic works differently than the currencies (gems) for other magic paths. You get gems through the magic sites in your provinces, which are pretty much fixed at game start. And perhaps you control a global spell that generates a fixed number of gems. That's pretty much it, there are no real ways to increase your gem income further. There are some summons that generate gems, but spending 45 earth gems to cast Troll King's Court to summon one commander who gives you one earth gem per month/turn is not a profitable investment. Blood magic on the other hand doesn't use gems, it uses blood slaves (basically virgins). You get those by having a blood mage hunt for virgins in a province. The higher the blood magic level on the blood hunter, and the higher the population in the province, the higher the number of blood slaves you get each turn. This can really ramp up once you have a good number of provinces, and a good number of blood hunters. You can then drown the world in your blood summons, and also cast global spells which will kill nearly all non-blood mages over time. Once a player gets a high enough blood slave income, it's game over for the others.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:30
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Torrannor posted:The currency to use blood magic works differently than the currencies (gems) for other magic paths. You get gems through the magic sites in your provinces, which are pretty much fixed at game start. And perhaps you control a global spell that generates a fixed number of gems. That's pretty much it, there are no real ways to increase your gem income further. There are some summons that generate gems, but spending 45 earth gems to cast Troll King's Court to summon one commander who gives you one earth gem per month/turn is not a profitable investment. Blood also has its own bespoke research path that has all its spells while every other element is scattered throughout the various schools. So you can just beeline it up the Blood path and get all your combat spells/summons/globals etc while literally every other kind of magic has to do double or triple the research to get all that stuff.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:45
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yeah, blood's the most dangerous late game purely because unlike all the other magics you can snowball your resource used for it, that being  downside to this is that it raises unrest in provinces and i believe has a very very minor popkill effect, and unlike gems when you take blood slaves into a battle they're an actual (extremely lovely) unit on the field that just mills around the caster, so you can murder their fuel source. you don't ever actually do that though you just use them to summon insanely strong units that freespawn other units or can be turned into supercombatants loaded down with more magic gear than a max level dnd characteris bogus and his crew of heroes still in dom 5? 
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Apr 3, 2019 15:47
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Kitfox88 posted:is bogus and his crew of heroes still in dom 5? Yes. 
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Apr 3, 2019 15:50
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Ynglaur posted:What does end game Blood look like? I.e. Why does Blood win the late game? every province is a blood gem site. that's all it is.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:51
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Death and to a lesser degree nature can keep up with blood somewhat due to giving you access to immortals, who kinda-sorta count as scaling negative income for your enemies, since you can just keep throwing them at the enemy, and can eventually overwhelm them through attrition. But blood also has immortals. Of course, blood has special gently caress YOU spells that don't kill your immortals, but instead send them to hell for a very long time, and are impossible to resist. e: Astral also has an EXTREMELY powerful income spell that gives you half the gems your enemies spend as astral pearls. Of course, blood slaves don't count for this. e2: Blood is a wee bit broken lategame, is the point. 
my dad fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 15:55
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my dad posted:Yes. indy pd commander: 0 bogus crew: 1 also gently caress your blood dungeons
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Apr 3, 2019 15:56
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Blood is good, busted national blood summons are better. Disregard scales, acquire virgins, profit.
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Apr 3, 2019 16:00
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Blood doesn't function underwater for several reasons alas.
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Apr 3, 2019 16:35
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kind of hosed up that only human ladies can be blood virgins really makes you wonder what illwinter's trying to say hmm 
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Apr 3, 2019 16:40
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Doubly weird given that there are nonhuman blood nations (like Xibalba) whose lore clearly indicates that like zotz maidens are on the chopping block re: blood sacrifice. Lanka also; oughta be monkey blood in the mix somewhere.
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Apr 3, 2019 16:52
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The population die-off from patrolling down the unrest generated by Blood hunting isn't that minor. You will definitely notice it over time, and you'll eventually depopulate provinces to the point that you're wasting time hunting in them. This is why if you play Blood you are kind of a fool to not take high Growth scales. Obviously Blood magic is still super good.
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Apr 3, 2019 16:58
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FilthIncarnate posted:Doubly weird given that there are nonhuman blood nations (like Xibalba) whose lore clearly indicates that like zotz maidens are on the chopping block re: blood sacrifice. Perhaps it's because fish are cold-blooded, whereas bats, monkeys and humans are all warm-blooded?
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Apr 3, 2019 16:59
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Its because fish are friends, not food (for demon summoning rituals)
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Apr 3, 2019 17:01
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I always assumed it was because it'd be unmanageably messy.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:11
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Like that NYTimes opinion writer points out, the best way to save the world from late game blood magic is to kill everyone.
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Apr 3, 2019 18:10
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The main issue with countering blood magic is that the best ways of crippling it tend to cripple everyone ELSE too. Blood nations are certainly not going to appreciate a year one BoT, but for some reason no one else is likely to sagaciously accept this reasoning and not quickly attack you as well. edit: Of course, if it is a year 1 BoT you're probably playing Ashen Empire or Lemuria, in which case the non-blood nations are kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario anyways.
Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 18:48
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Blood trades gold for slaves, which is an extremely good trade that only gets better the longer a game goes and scales directly with province count. It has access to some of the most powerful summons in the game It is very easy to research since it's all in one path and you can generally get by with low level baselines in other schools and going hard down blood research as a blood nation. It has extremely powerful and useful forged items and easy to forge boosters, some effects of which are unobtainable via other paths. Some of the xpath boosters are so powerful it's worth planning around them (see: blood stones) It has access to the best immortals in the game by a very wide margin. you can easily win the game with nothing but a swarm of vampire lords particularly now that they retain immortality outside of your dominion. It has access to some of the most powerful combat magic in the game including charm, AOE and single target armor negating damage, wide area fears, communions, and mother loving horrors. It has access to a global that pretty effectively disables anyone who isn't using blood magic by killing all of their poo poo if they dare use gems Basically blood is extremely bullshit and you are always justified casting burden of time or coalitioning a burgeoning blood power. The only saving grace is it's a bit finicky to get the hang of maximizing your harvests and leveraging it in combat. But once you can do that, it gets pretty close to unstoppable later on. Lord Koth posted:The main issue with countering blood magic is that the best ways of crippling it tend to cripple everyone ELSE too. Blood nations are certainly not going to appreciate a year one BoT, but for some reason no one else is likely to sagaciously accept this reasoning and not quickly attack you as well. idk. If I'm playing a decent nation with death access or really any nation that doesn't care about age, I like to drop BoT by default. It's a very good spell vs everyone not just blood nations. If cast early and maintained it pretty well wrecks both the gold and blood economies within a few years, and you can build your scales to do ok under the grimdark BoT future. Also if you are poor there's less micro which I like a lot!
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Apr 3, 2019 19:11
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Kitfox88 posted:kind of hosed up that only human ladies can be blood virgins really makes you wonder what illwinter's trying to say hmm they're saying they're too lazy to implement nonhuman blood slaves or nonhuman pops living in provinces one or the other
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Apr 3, 2019 19:15
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Does this mean the UW pop is technically humans then?
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Apr 3, 2019 19:21
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IMJack posted:they're saying they're too lazy to implement nonhuman blood slaves ^ Pharnakes posted:Does this mean the UW pop is technically humans then? underwater pop is strictly nonhuman, since you can't bloodhunt underwater and all blood slaves are human due to illwinter laziness it's mostly tritons, atlantians, and merfolk, with a few kullulus and fishmen included for variety
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Apr 3, 2019 19:38
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JosephWongKS posted:Perhaps it's because fish are cold-blooded, whereas bats, monkeys and humans are all warm-blooded? The stated reason is that "the power in the blood is most powerful in women of childrearing age before they actually have children" hence the "virgin" thing if that's how it works no reason it can't be fish or frogs before they uh lay eggs? idk merpeople at least can 100% crossbreed with humans (this is the entire concept of the erythean nation) and so can abysians (though i guess nobody's ever actually seen an abysian woman, afaik) anyway: underwater shark tribe bloodhunting nation thank you
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Apr 3, 2019 19:41
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Nuclearmonkee posted:
The Ashen Empire/Lemuria note was just that they're by far the most likely to manage to have the D income available in year 1 to put that global up. It's definitely something worth considering for any nation that has the D access and long-lived mages, but it'll probably not go up quite that fast. And it wrecking the gold economy too was the point - the most reliable way to cripple a blood nation also cripples any nation relying on actual bought troops too. Also those nations that mostly have old-age (or close to that) mages with normal ages.
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Apr 3, 2019 19:44
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Lord Koth posted:The Ashen Empire/Lemuria note was just that they're by far the most likely to manage to have the D income available in year 1 to put that global up. It's definitely something worth considering for any nation that has the D access and long-lived mages, but it'll probably not go up quite that fast. If people will still trade me death gems for some reason I assume it'll work for anyone else too. You don't need the death income.
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Apr 3, 2019 19:48
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FilthIncarnate posted:The stated reason is that "the power in the blood is most powerful in women of childrearing age before they actually have children" Maybe it doesn't count for external fertilisation  E: Has anyone at Illwinter considered the implications of blood magic and marsupials? Does dominions have any marsupial races, it seems like it should given that it's got just about everything else. Pharnakes fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 19:49
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Ermor gets all the D
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Apr 3, 2019 19:53
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quote:but a swarm of vampire lords particularly now that they retain immortality outside of your dominion. Wait, what? I haven't played this game in a while.
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Apr 3, 2019 19:58
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They love the D
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Apr 3, 2019 19:59
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sullat posted:Wait, what? I haven't played this game in a while. Reform time is tied to distance from the province they were summoned in (which also means W nations can use vamps now). It doesn't care about dominion you just get a longer time out if you are further away.
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Apr 3, 2019 20:27
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someone make a mod that removes blood magic then i'll buy dom5  next time it goes on salefor real though it should at least have its spells rolled into the normal research path like other nations i'm confused why they didnt do that for dom5
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Apr 4, 2019 02:40
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Kitfox88 posted:someone make a mod that removes blood magic then i'll buy dom5 Removing things with mods is actually really easy, you just need to put #selectspell yourspellhere #clear #end for every blood spell, and #selectitem to remove those, into a text file with the proper mod header, which you can copy from any other mod and change the name and image. If I could be bothered to write a bit of code to grab the ids for the spells and items and write the mod for me it'd be done now. The hard part of modding is making balanced changes and additions. The other hard part of modding is that it's still full of illwinter undocumented edge cases that you need to work your way through over years of experience.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:02
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Hello friends  It is I, your lovable comrade Filth Incarnate Ramc has been probated for three days because he was yelling at landlords (?) unclear. I guess the let's play will grind to halt........ unless..... you were to have a guest commentator.........  Kitfox88 posted:someone make a mod that removes blood magic then i'll buy dom5 For the record I like blood magic; it's good to have something that can clearly end the game, otherwise this poo poo would go on forever.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:50
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rip
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Apr 4, 2019 04:19
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  We interrupt this program to bring you the latest news by the Syrupleaf Fortress Story Network. A crack team of veteran dwarf fortress arena gladiators, best known by their moniker THE PLUMP HELMETS, have broken into a fortified posting complex at an undisclosed location. From there they recovered records of the Disney Wars that went missing along with their author during the Landlord Fragility Incident. Dubbed the Catjail Papers by our correspondents, they will be released for our audience here, on SFSN! In order to comply with posting, probation, and evasion regulations, they will be read out loud by Urist McRubble, retired expedition leader. *ehem* Attached via paperclip to the first document is the following note:pre:CLICK COWARD, YOU ONLY PROBATE A MAN Turn 12! Pretender Gods who are dormant can start awakening starting this turn. but mine didn't No new research or sites. Some fights and events and one event spoils we won a fight. Well,l I was expecting to win. Let us see... Looks like a lot of beef here actually. Very amusing. This is kind of the situation I want to avoid in general but the principle of attacks per square should see us through. Any attack into a square can only hit one target in the square, which makes it hard to focus down groupings of smaller troops at least. I was expecting it to be more costly. Nice. Next fight. This looks a lot softer. My boring dudes hold the line while the sacred scythe through everything. Hey look my prophet smite stunned the kraken nifty. You can see his defense penalized to 1. What is with all of these pond wiz- poo poo HE HAS A SWORD it doesnt help. He doesn't even drop it for us. Events. I guess this is off that plague event earlier. Give a hoot, guys. i... i don't have anyone to send   Overview! Expansion continues apace. We might see phaecia UW soon. Also, what in the actual heck is this wailing lady ghost province? Hiring is the same sort of boring stuff. I make yet another closed realms dude because I need an air breathing temple maker for the coast fort I am doing. Troops are expanding. Hopefully my god wakes up next turn and we can chat about my bless. The following note was stapled to the back of the first document.quote:samog Tune in tomorrow for the next edition of the Catjail Papers. And for our next exclusive report: Is Urist McRubble actually two gremlins in a trenchcoat? Are they going to run for the arena championship? And will the spear manufacturing lobby try to prevent this?
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Apr 4, 2019 05:27
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Stake the landlords onto a beach IMO
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Apr 4, 2019 05:28
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would the landlords have death gems or blood virgins
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Apr 4, 2019 06:31
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Yikes, again? Ramc, I know landlords are evil and poo poo, but maybe you should try yelling at them in real life, not on a dumb internet forum.
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Apr 4, 2019 07:44
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