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Drone posted:Noted Bajoran religious adherents Quark and Garak.... He's a direct link to exceptionally powerful wormhole aliens who save asses, that's the shorthand
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Apr 3, 2019 18:53
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marktheando posted:
I think of it as he's the guy who knows people, probably had a fairly upper class upbringing all told (after all his cousin Gaila owns a moon you know), but is obviously a case of downward mobility at the same time.
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Apr 3, 2019 18:53
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marktheando posted:You should watch it. The federation grim dark end justifies the means take that a lot of people here have about Discovery is totally overblown. Especially in season two with the mirror universe and klingon war storylines done with. The show comes down on the side of Federation values and is not on the side of the mirror universe characters or section 31 characters. Federation values like enthroning a ruthless warlord as leader of a foreign power and supplying her with weapons of mass destruction so she can threaten to destroy the planet if anyone rebels against her
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Apr 3, 2019 18:54
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Also dont drag beta canon in here, stink up the place
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Apr 3, 2019 18:55
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In a system like the Ferengi's you're always a nobody except to the people who want your money. When they get it, you're nobody to them too.
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Apr 3, 2019 18:55
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skasion posted:Federation values like enthroning a ruthless warlord as leader of a foreign power and supplying her with weapons of mass destruction so she can threaten to destroy the planet if anyone rebels against her the show is basically liberal foreign policy.avi and people think it's woke because they pay lip service to not being shitheads at the end, amazing
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Apr 3, 2019 19:00
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Tighclops posted:the show is basically liberal foreign policy.avi and people think it's woke because they pay lip service to not being shitheads at the end, amazing They think it's woke because it pays vague lip service to a liberal idea of diversity while also doing evil slutty gays and dangerous brown hordes, like there's seemingly nothing beyond that. I'm pretty sure late 90s trek could probably give them a run for their money in terms of diverse main cast but that was 20 years ago so only 30yo+ trekkies are going to remember anything about DS9 and Voyager to begin with.
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Apr 3, 2019 19:04
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Tighclops posted:the show is basically liberal foreign policy.avi and people think it's woke because they pay lip service to not being shitheads at the end, amazing liberal foreign policy.avi is basically Star Trek as a whole which is why it’s so impressive to me that they’ve managed to do worse. more like CIA black op in banana republic.mkv
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Apr 3, 2019 19:22
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skasion posted:liberal foreign policy.avi is basically Star Trek as a whole which is why it’s so impressive to me that they’ve managed to do worse. more like CIA black op in banana republic.mkv Yeah like I know Star Trek is a series of TV shows produced in a capitalist nation and yadda yadda but as far as mainstream media went it used to at least try to be somewhat progressive, and I know they didn't exactly always stick the landing either and each series is as much a product of their times as STD is but man, times must really suck now if this is the best they can do these days
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Apr 3, 2019 19:31
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marktheando posted:Quark's finances and status do seem to vary considerably depending on the plot needs of the episode. Sometimes he's at the heart of Ferengi politics and sometimes he's just a nobody. That's what happens when you invest in something with wild price fluctuations like Bruntcoin. 
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Apr 3, 2019 19:36
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Tunicate posted:They did sign a non-aggression pact. what's this now?
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Apr 3, 2019 19:42
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anybody ever notice that star trek doesn't really seem to have a high opinion of the irish
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Apr 3, 2019 19:53
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Tighclops posted:anybody ever notice that star trek doesn't really seem to have a high opinion of the irish I think that is suppose to be tongue-in-cheek as Roddenberry really liked his Irish heritage but instead of it coming off that way its "oh man those drunk Irish rascals are at it again! *trombone sound*"
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Apr 3, 2019 19:57
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I know Through a mirror, darkly is of debatable canonicity but I thought it already strongly implied that the tholians might not be super linear as far as time and dimensions are concerned given they dumped the prime USS Defiant a century in the past in the mirror verse Burning_Monk posted:I think that is suppose to be tongue-in-cheek as Roddenberry really liked his Irish heritage but instead of it coming off that way its "oh man those drunk Irish rascals are at it again! *trombone sound*" So the really annoying irish Lt in Naked Time really was the Roddenberry self insert
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Apr 3, 2019 20:02
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Burning_Monk posted:I think that is suppose to be tongue-in-cheek as Roddenberry really liked his Irish heritage but instead of it coming off that way its "oh man those drunk Irish rascals are at it again! *trombone sound*" Yeah but like even when you get into Voyager they're doing the Fair Haven stuff and it's like wh why are you doing this
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Apr 3, 2019 20:10
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Tighclops posted:Yeah like I know Star Trek is a series of TV shows produced in a capitalist nation and yadda yadda but as far as mainstream media went it used to at least try to be somewhat progressive, and I know they didn't exactly always stick the landing either and each series is as much a product of their times as STD is I think it's very unfair to say Discovery does't at least try to be somewhat progressive. They have certainly hosed this up at times, but as you say the rest of Trek does this too. And as for times now, yeah they really really suck. Burning_Monk posted:I think that is suppose to be tongue-in-cheek as Roddenberry really liked his Irish heritage but instead of it coming off that way its "oh man those drunk Irish rascals are at it again! *trombone sound*" In my experience Irish Americans have some weird ideas about the Irish so this checks out.
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Apr 3, 2019 20:11
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Didn't Colm Meany start to put his foot down about some of this poo poo when he had main character status in DS9?
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Apr 3, 2019 20:12
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Nodosaur posted:Didn't Colm Meany start to put his foot down about some of this poo poo when he had main character status in DS9? If I remember right Rumplestiltskin was originally a leprechaun and the American writers had no idea this was offensive until Colm Meany spoke up.
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Apr 3, 2019 20:15
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marktheando posted:I think it's very unfair to say Discovery does't at least try to be somewhat progressive. They have certainly hosed this up at times, but as you say the rest of Trek does this too. I'm sure they are actually trying to be progressive but their heads are so far up their own asses that their best is laughably pathetic for 2019.
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Apr 3, 2019 20:17
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marktheando posted:If I remember right Rumplestiltskin was originally a leprechaun and the American writers had no idea this was offensive until Colm Meany spoke up. Leprechauns are offensive? Or saying they're aliens is offensive?
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Apr 3, 2019 20:27
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Brawnfire posted:Leprechauns are offensive? Or saying they're aliens is offensive? The first one. Irish people generally don't respond well to people going on about Leprechauns. Though on the scale of things Irish Americans do that offend Irish people, it's below going into a pub in Ireland and ordering an "Irish Car Bomb"
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Apr 3, 2019 20:34
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They aren't inherently, they're part of Irish mythology and folklore, but the way they're portrayed in the west as synonymous with Irish culture and the way they get turned into caricatures crosses the line on both cultural appropriation and offensiveness.
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Apr 3, 2019 20:35
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The funniest Trek Irish related story is how Colm Meaney (O'Brien) would take Alex Siddig (Bashir) out to Irish pubs and watch him almost get beaten up (for being English).
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Apr 3, 2019 20:41
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Burning_Monk posted:The funniest Trek Irish related story is how Colm Meaney (O'Brien) would take Alex Siddig (Bashir) out to Irish pubs and watch him almost get beaten up (for being English). Man I'm English and I've been in shitloads of irish pubs all over the ROI and Northern Ireland, what the gently caress?
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Apr 3, 2019 20:41
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Taear posted:Man I'm English and I've been in shitloads of irish pubs all over the ROI and Northern Ireland, what the gently caress? I should say this was in america where.... marktheando posted:In my experience Irish Americans have some weird ideas about the Irish so this checks out. EDIT: FOUND IT!!! https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6x0un6 Burning_Monk fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 20:43
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If you wanted to do something new with the mirror universe you could have it be the surgically sterile THX-1138 thing people seem to act like the Federation actually is, and contrast the main-line version's actual willingness to come to grips with
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Apr 3, 2019 21:31
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I think you can reasonably make the case that Disco is showing how the more imperial actions of Starfleet during the Kirk era gave way to the more peaceful post-Khitomer Starfleet that we see with Picard. They don’t really mention the Klingon stuff too much outside of one episode in S2, and in that case the new Chancellor is nearly overthrown despite that doomsday weapon (which is not mentioned at all). It appears like they are going to show how a more open Section 31 is forced underground/mostly disbanded due to what is happening to them in S2. I’ve liked how Pike in Disco S2 is the more Picard-type Captain who goes for the diplomatic solution until he was forced into combat.
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Apr 3, 2019 21:34
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think you can reasonably make the case that Disco is showing how the more imperial actions of Starfleet during the Kirk era gave way to the more peaceful post-Khitomer Starfleet that we see with Picard. They don’t really mention the Klingon stuff too much outside of one episode in S2, and in that case the new Chancellor is nearly overthrown despite that doomsday weapon (which is not mentioned at all). I think I can reasonably make the case that you have put more thought into Disco's overall meaning and place in the Trek universe than the showrunners have
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Apr 3, 2019 21:43
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They're not going to show any of this convincingly with Kurtzmann in charge because it gets in the way of the action
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Apr 3, 2019 21:46
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The Bloop posted:I think I can reasonably make the case that you have put more thought into Disco's overall meaning and place in the Trek universe than the showrunners have
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Apr 3, 2019 21:47
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think you can reasonably make the case that Disco is showing how the more imperial actions of Starfleet during the Kirk era gave way to the more peaceful post-Khitomer Starfleet that we see with Picard. They don’t really mention the Klingon stuff too much outside of one episode in S2, and in that case the new Chancellor is nearly overthrown despite that doomsday weapon (which is not mentioned at all). STD takes place before the Kirk era though. All that stuff with proxy wars, espionage, poisoning food supplies, Genesis, etc is yet to come. Also, there’s a whole movie about how the Kirk era of cold war with the Klingons moves into the TNG era of awkward peace.
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Apr 3, 2019 21:49
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skasion posted:STD takes place before the Kirk era though. All that stuff with proxy wars, espionage, poisoning food supplies, Genesis, etc is yet to come. Also, there’s a whole movie about how the Kirk era of cold war with the Klingons moves into the TNG era of awkward peace. Modern Trek poorly ripping off what previous Treks did is the Trekkest thing of all. I'm just glad it's not Wrath of Khan again.
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Apr 3, 2019 21:58
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I can't wait for the incredibly artless TUC ripoff where puppet chancellor gets murdered and it becomes a bad thing because mysterious inscrutable aliens whose identity will be a big wink wink nudge nudge may have their own puppet ruler instead
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Apr 3, 2019 22:05
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Huh. I had heard season 2 and the introduction of people like Frakes as director had improved the show.
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Apr 3, 2019 22:09
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Nodosaur posted:Huh. I had heard season 2 and the introduction of people like Frakes as director had improved the show. It did very much, but there's still plenty to bitch about if you want to think critically
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Apr 3, 2019 22:14
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Nodosaur posted:Huh. I had heard season 2 and the introduction of people like Frakes as director had improved the show. Yes absolutely, but that is like the platonic ideal of damning with faint praise
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Apr 3, 2019 22:18
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If S31 mostly exists on their starships then judging by the preview for next episode they're all dead so there won't be a push to rebuild them from the top brass and they will truly become their own thing.
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Apr 3, 2019 22:30
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Nodosaur posted:Huh. I had heard season 2 and the introduction of people like Frakes as director had improved the show. One step forward, three steps back, then go down a path that has nothing to do with the previous steps. The Talos IV episode was my favorite episode this season which surprises me. It’s the truest to the canon and spirit of Star Trek than what’s been shown so far. Then the following weeks sucked. There is some level of continuity though. Lot of grief on how violently Spock escaped the looney bin, but he was framed. Kurtzman won’t divulge if this universe is an alternate time line but the inconsistencies are either incompetence or a fakeout. The only thing this season of STD has solidly done is proved they should’ve done a Pike series with Anson Mount instead. His acting elevates even the worst scripts.
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Apr 3, 2019 22:33
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skasion posted:STD takes place before the Kirk era though. All that stuff with proxy wars, espionage, poisoning food supplies, Genesis, etc is yet to come. Also, there’s a whole movie about how the Kirk era of cold war with the Klingons moves into the TNG era of awkward peace.
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Apr 3, 2019 22:44
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Nodosaur posted:Huh. I had heard season 2 and the introduction of people like Frakes as director had improved the show. Season 2 is a lot better. The first half of the season was stronger, as it's gotten further into its extremely dumb story arc it's gotten worse. The first half has some genuinely good Star Trek in it. I'm also concerned about season three since adding Pike was the best decision they've made so far, and he's going to be gone at the end of the season.
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Apr 3, 2019 22:45
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