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SimonCat posted:You want to punish people for being the victims of theft? Say my house is burglarized, and my guns are stolen from my safe, would I still have to appear in court to contest the charges and go through a trial? No, you would report the theft when it happened and wash your hands of it. If you have a history of having your guns stolen, you lose your right to purchase new guns. I gave an example of 1 freebie here, but it could be set at a different level if it made sense. To me 1 freebie makes sense since it would be a rare circumstance anyway and you certainly don't want to punish someone for a case of bad luck. I sympathize with a poor person who is unable to afford the gun safe but apparently can afford the gun itself. Is there a reason we couldn't subsidize gun safes if that were actually an issue?
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Apr 4, 2019 02:05
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What happens when one of the highly trained, well vetted member of the military loses one of the U.S. government's guns Just curious, asking for a friend.
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Apr 4, 2019 02:35
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JBP posted:Good. Why do you feel that the poor should be restricted from exercising their rights? What would you recommend the minimum poll tax be to keep undesirables from voting?
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Apr 4, 2019 03:01
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SimonCat posted:You want to punish people for being the victims of theft? Say my house is burglarized, and my guns are stolen from my safe, would I still have to appear in court to contest the charges and go through a trial? Did you negligently leave your murder weapon lying around for any passerby or were professional tools involved in the taking? SimonCat posted:Also, this is another example of creating a hurdle for poorer people to own guns. A person living in a trailer in a rural area isn't going to be able to afford an $800 safe. I'm ok with spending rich people's money on this. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Apr 4, 2019 |
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Apr 4, 2019 03:11
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Apollodorus posted:Why do you feel that the poor should be restricted from exercising their rights? Are the poor under siege by rich people hunting them with guns?
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Apr 4, 2019 03:15
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PSure they don't punish people for getting burgled even in heavily gun restricted countries so...
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Apr 4, 2019 03:18
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Shaocaholica posted:PSure they don't punish people for getting burgled even in heavily gun restricted countries so... You don't get punished so long as your weapons are kept under extremely strict lock and key in Australia. It is, like any other niche hobby, an expensive undertaking. Arguing the poor shouldn't have to secure guns properly is stupid. Who gives a gently caress about egalitarian access to dumb toys.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:20
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From here on out I am going to advocate for means tested golf clubs and course memberships because my rights.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:24
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Unoriginal Name posted:What happens when one of the highly trained, well vetted member of the military loses one of the U.S. government's guns Someone once posted in GiP that if they ever lost their service weapon, they would borrow their friend's rifle and use it to blow their brains out. Apparently it's rather coming to have a nightmare about losing your rifle.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:47
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if someone really can't afford their own gun cabinet or has a history of getting guns stolen they could be allowed keep their guns at a range or city hall or the police department, or somewhere else appropriately secure. Then you can just check them out as needed. There are practical ways to deal with these issues that improve safety for everybody.
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Apr 4, 2019 04:49
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If you can't afford to keep your guns secure, then you don't get to own guns. I don't see what's wrong with that. My friend is a police officer, and on occasion when he was off-duty he would exercise his ability to carry his gun on his person rather than leave it in a less-than-secure location. Especially in a country where concealed carry is legal for civilians, there is no excuse for a gun to be stored insecurely.
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Apr 4, 2019 05:32
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But I don't wanna lock up my guns, if they're stolen it's not my problem -America's responsible gun owners
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Apr 4, 2019 05:36
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SimonCat posted:You want to punish people for being the victims of theft? Say my house is burglarized, and my guns are stolen from my safe, would I still have to appear in court to contest the charges and go through a trial? If you can't afford to store a gun safely, you shouldn't have a gun. The public health risk of that gun making its way into the hands of a criminal, or being easily-accessible to others outweighs the 2nd amendment--to normal, smart people who understand statistics and have empathy for victims of gun violence at least. Apollodorus posted:Why do you feel that the poor should be restricted from exercising their rights? This is such a profoundly stupid argument that I hesitate to respond, HOWEVER: A poor person's voting rights are not a threat to the physical well-being of others. Their poorly stored death machines, however
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Apr 4, 2019 06:14
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LeeMajors posted:If you can't afford to store a gun safely, you shouldn't have a gun. The public health risk of that gun making its way into the hands of a criminal, or being easily-accessible to others outweighs the 2nd amendment--to normal, smart people who understand statistics and have empathy for victims of gun violence at least. I don't know the stats, but I'd be more concerned some kid would find the easy accessible gun and kill me, a loved one or themselves.
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Apr 4, 2019 06:15
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Squalid posted:if someone really can't afford their own gun cabinet or has a history of getting guns stolen they could be allowed keep their guns at a range or city hall or the police department, or somewhere else appropriately secure. Then you can just check them out as needed. There are practical ways to deal with these issues that improve safety for everybody. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Apr 4, 2019 |
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Apr 4, 2019 06:35
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Honestly $20 worth of lockbox is enough to store a couple handguns, or the key functional bits of long guns, and is resistant enough to deter your average child or tweaker. The government should just give one to anyone who wants one. Take the money out of the cops armored vehicles and black pajamas budget. The worst part is, this would never get past pro-gun politicians on principle, but if you dressed it up as a free bonus for gun owners and made it tacticool as gently caress, it'd be wildly popular.
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Apr 4, 2019 12:25
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LeeMajors posted:This is such a profoundly stupid argument that I hesitate to respond, HOWEVER: So you agree that, because of the specific provisions of the second amendment, there should be a minimum income requirement for people wishing to exercise it. I myself think there should be a minimum educational requirement for the first amendment, because sharing (e.g.) anti-vaccine pseudoscience is a serious threat to the physical well-being of others.
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Apr 4, 2019 13:59
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PT6A posted:If you can't afford to keep your guns secure, then you don't get to own guns. I don't see what's wrong with that. my dad was law enforcement and he hated when they had to bring their guns home (it wasn't an every day thing). he's extremely antigun and never wanted them around his family. growing up in the projects will that to you i guess. Apollodorus posted:So you agree that, because of the specific provisions of the second amendment, there should be a minimum income requirement for people wishing to exercise it. not everyone agrees the second amendment grants such a right. that was the interpretation for most of our history in fact.
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Apr 4, 2019 14:03
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For real though it is profoundly stupid that supposedly pro-gun politicians don't lobby harder to provide publicly funded gun safety education and storage. Where I live, anyway, the wildlife resources commission offers free two-day hunter education classes to anyone who signs up, and a certificate of completion is a requirement to get a hunting license. There's no reason the same couldn't be done for firearms in general.Rent-A-Cop posted:Honestly $20 worth of lockbox is enough to store a couple handguns, or the key functional bits of long guns, and is resistant enough to deter your average child or tweaker. The government should just give one to anyone who wants one. Take the money out of the cops armored vehicles and black pajamas budget. For instance this would be really effective, I bet.
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Apr 4, 2019 14:14
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Apollodorus posted:So you agree that, because of the specific provisions of the second amendment, there should be a minimum income requirement for people wishing to exercise it. I agree, we should have a mincome. Apollodorus posted:For instance this would be really effective, I bet. Better than buying everyone an $800 safe for sure.
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Apr 4, 2019 14:15
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Nevvy Z posted:I agree, we should have a mincome. On the other hand, if we had UBI and/or a living minimum wage, this would be a non-issue.
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Apr 4, 2019 14:17
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LeeMajors posted:If you can't afford to store a gun safely, you shouldn't have a gun. The public health risk of that gun making its way into the hands of a criminal, or being easily-accessible to others outweighs the 2nd amendment--to normal, smart people who understand statistics and have empathy for victims of gun violence at least. Politics was specifically invented to reach the same outcomes as war without all the violence.
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Apr 4, 2019 14:27
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Apollodorus posted:I myself think there should be a minimum educational requirement for the first amendment There is. Printing presses aren't free
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Apr 4, 2019 14:48
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Jeza posted:The worst part is, this would never get past pro-gun politicians on principle, but if you dressed it up as a free bonus for gun owners and made it tacticool as gently caress, it'd be wildly popular. You'll never get anything past gun people/politicians/lobby unless you trade them something else or its in the wake of a tragedy. Key part here is 'trade'. Nobody tries this because nobody is really being sincere.
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Apr 4, 2019 17:55
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nm
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Apr 4, 2019 17:57
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I could get behind a govt subsidy or tax break for purchasing a safe, residential security container, lock box, whatever. You can get a decent sheet metal safe like this one: For like $100. Just look at all them guns (and other stuff I guess) you can fit in there! A for realsies 500lbs.+ fire-resistant safe with multiple locking bars and a pry-resistant door is more expensive and more secure, obviously, and the people who choose to spend thousands of dollars on their guns and need more appropriate security or just want a place to store other valuables can foot the bill for that stuff themselves. The problem will be convincing some gun owners that they're not on some list for taking advantage of the program, creating a defacto registry, firearm registration being a thing many states do not require. Still, for those that would be willing to participate, it would go a long way towards preventing the kids from finding daddy's shotgun in the closet type accidents, which is enough for me to approve. I see no reason why such a thing isn't already available.
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Apr 5, 2019 05:20
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Reynold posted:I could get behind a govt subsidy or tax break for purchasing a safe, residential security container, lock box, whatever. You can get a decent sheet metal safe like this one: In AUSTRALIA (sorry it's where I live) you need to keep ammunition in a separate, also locked location which I think is reasonable when you talk about acts of sudden violence or accidents involving kids. How you'd get American gun owners to come at something that onerous is beyond me despite the free safes policy sounding like a good one.
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Apr 5, 2019 05:26
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JBP posted:In AUSTRALIA (sorry it's where I live) you need to keep ammunition in a separate, also locked location which I think is reasonable when you talk about acts of sudden violence or accidents involving kids. How you'd get American gun owners to come at something that onerous is beyond me despite the free safes policy sounding like a good one. In most states in the US, you only need to store guns and ammo separately while transporting them, and even then you're exempt if you have a permit. Usually the wording states that the firearm must be "not readily accessible," which can be taken to mean guns and ammo in the same My Little Pony backpack in the trunk or two separate locked cases depending on your locale. Because US gun laws are a mess and don't translate well across state lines. While I appreciate the thought behind creating a safety puzzle someone has to solve before loading a gun, requiring people to store firearms and ammunition in two separate locked locations in their own home will probably never happen here, or is at least several decades and thousands of corpses directly linked to safes with guns AND ammo in them being broken into away from being taken seriously. Hell, getting more safes into homes with firearms through a subsidy or tax break probably won't happen either, but it's much closer to reality at this point, and is something I think is worth pursuing. Reynold fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Apr 5, 2019 |
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Apr 5, 2019 05:50
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While storing guns and ammo in separate locked containers is unquestionably the right thing to do from a safety standpoint, many Americans also love fantasizing about home invasions and the opportunities they will presumably offer to actually get to kill someone, so keeping the ammo and firearm separate will ruin the fantasy for them. I mean, so will their kids killing themselves and/or their friends, but that's a small price to pay for  freedom
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Apr 5, 2019 12:22
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I don't get the separate containers thing. How exactly is that supposed to help?
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Apr 5, 2019 13:15
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I don't get the separate containers thing. How exactly is that supposed to help? it's most difficult to fire an unloaded firearm.
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Apr 5, 2019 14:05
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I don't get the separate containers thing. How exactly is that supposed to help? it's so that morons with poor impulse control are forced to cool off for a minute while they unpack the ammo that goes in the gun
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Apr 5, 2019 14:46
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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suck my woke dick posted:it's so that morons with poor impulse control are forced to cool off for a minute while they unpack the ammo that goes in the gun I'd love to see some work on the efficacy of that kind of short delay if anyone has it handy.
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Apr 5, 2019 14:56
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Hold on, road rage guy, I've got to open my trunk, take out my gun, take out my ammo, load a mag with a couple rounds, and then I can address the issues you had with my failure to use a turn signal 2 miles back
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Apr 5, 2019 15:22
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I mean there is a reason why you separate people in the heat of a fight but you (usually) don't have to lock them up forever to keep them from inevitably hunting each other down and dueling to the death. I feel like I'm having one of those Captain Picard explains humanity to Mr Data moments here.
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Apr 5, 2019 15:23
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Rent-A-Cop posted:That's a cooling off period of what, like 60 seconds? Or however long it takes to unlock one box instead of two? Do you really need an essay to understand how lovely and impulsive human nature can be? Also, you know, preventing stupid kids from doing something dumb. Safe storage should be common sense. Having a nationally subsidized gun cabinet program, heck yea. Forcing or making it a financial barrier to armament? Naw.
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Apr 5, 2019 15:24
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THE BIG DOG DADDY posted:Hold on, road rage guy, I've got to open my trunk, take out my gun, take out my ammo, load a mag with a couple rounds, and then I can address the issues you had with my failure to use a turn signal 2 miles back I mean yeah, keeping the gun unloaded in the trunk on your way to the range is a no brainier.
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Apr 5, 2019 15:27
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In theory, you don't teach your kids how to open either the ammo container or the gun safe. In reality, you have to indoctrinate them to the cult of Gun as early as possible so by the time they can speak you have already told them about the great power you keep with your vault and taught them the combination to use "just in case"
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Apr 5, 2019 16:37
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Unoriginal Name posted:In theory, you don't teach your kids how to open either the ammo container or the gun safe. Also if that poo poo isn't locked up anyway because kids are fuckin dumb.
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Apr 5, 2019 16:40
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Rent-A-Cop posted:If you have a gun in the house and you haven't nailed gun safety into your kid's head you're a real bad parent. I have bad news about America's Responsible Gun Owners
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Apr 5, 2019 17:04
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