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Vindolanda posted:I think it’s really unprofessional that manufacturers won’t make a hardened mandrel and run off a few tempered clips for the exposure. I’ve got at least five Instagram followers and that makes me someone that any enterprise should be courting. 3d printing out of a resin or nylon might be your best bet here if you want new. That complex a shape with the built in curves won't be cheap at all to make. Two die sets, minimum, made from prehard steel and milled to an acceptable finish will cost you several thousand, easily. On the plus side, like ambrose said, you can make like half a million of them once you get the dies made!
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Mar 28, 2019 17:29
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His Divine Shadow posted:Using CAD to layout my shop. That's gonna be my big summer project after I get the mill done. Models are not true reflection of what I have except in size, measured the footprint of everything in my shop before starting. In your first layout, I don't think there's enough feed room at the front or back of the table saw. Ideally if you are dealing with sheet goods you want 8 feet before and after the blade, although that may be overkill, but six feet or so is a good idea if you can manage it. One option is to put a lot of the tools on casters, so you can easily rearrange things if you want to work with long stock on a given day. Also, consider routing for dust collection. And tools in the center of the floor need power...
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Mar 28, 2019 17:40
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:3d printing out of a resin or nylon might be your best bet here if you want new. That complex a shape with the built in curves won't be cheap at all to make. Two die sets, minimum, made from prehard steel and milled to an acceptable finish will cost you several thousand, easily. On the plus side, like ambrose said, you can make like half a million of them once you get the dies made! Yeah, 3D printing is what I'd do too. That will necessarily involve pulling accurate dimensions for every curve and bump and subtle radius in that thing, and then probably doing a fundamental redesign that retains key geometries to accommodate being made from a far less ideal material with inferior strength/toughness.
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Mar 28, 2019 19:34
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Yeah, 3D printing is what I'd do too. That will necessarily involve pulling accurate dimensions for every curve and bump and subtle radius in that thing, and then probably doing a fundamental redesign that retains key geometries to accommodate being made from a far less ideal material with inferior strength/toughness. Nice part about 3d printing is you can very very quickly iterate on designs that don't work for a variety of reasons. And you can do poo poo that would be absurdly cost prohibitive on a stamped or milled part, like reinforcing ribs, honeycombs, and things like that.
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Mar 28, 2019 21:01
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Leperflesh posted:In your first layout, I don't think there's enough feed room at the front or back of the table saw. Ideally if you are dealing with sheet goods you want 8 feet before and after the blade, although that may be overkill, but six feet or so is a good idea if you can manage it. Full size sheetgoods won't be anything I handle in the shop. I cut those down outside. quote:One option is to put a lot of the tools on casters, so you can easily rearrange things if you want to work with long stock on a given day. All tools are on castors or mobile bases except the mill, lathe and bandsaw and the idea is all workbenches too will be on tools, and same height as table saw so they can double as outfeed tables. quote:Also, consider routing for dust collection. And tools in the center of the floor need power... I am waiting with putting down any DC piping until I know roughly where things will go, only bothered putting in the cyclone model. I have no problems getting power to the tools as is now, many of them are in the center of the floor, a cable reaches easily. I think the woodworking section will work out as in the last picture, the table saw can easily be rotated by pulling a lever and the door can be opened as well, but I am less sure about the lathe and mill. The mill in particular. You stand on the side of a deckel mill, not infront like with a bridgeport.
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Mar 29, 2019 05:40
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Oh dickstabbing christ someone sold a Schaublin 13 mill for 900 euros, gently caress I would have bought it on the spot despite having a mill already, but it was probably gone in an hour or less. Probably gonna resell for 2000-2500€ at least.
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Mar 29, 2019 07:40
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His Divine Shadow posted:Oh dickstabbing christ someone sold a Schaublin 13 mill for 900 euros, gently caress I would have bought it on the spot despite having a mill already, but it was probably gone in an hour or less. Probably gonna resell for 2000-2500€ at least. That's the same one that ToT has right? Looks like a nice machine, aside from the lack of a quill.
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Mar 29, 2019 12:55
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Yeah same type of mill, The Schaublin 13 and a whole assload of mills typically called euro-mills are based on the Deckel FP1 line of milling machines.
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Mar 29, 2019 13:51
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Vindolanda posted:Does anyone have any advice about getting custom spring steel clips in small batches? I’m trying to make a speed loader for shooting, but the type of steel clip I want to use was apparently last made about fifty years ago (by the Parker pen company I was told). I assume it involves a lots of set up with mandrels and so on, so isn’t much cheaper in our shiny CNC future?
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Mar 29, 2019 18:13
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Made a slide hammer. Internal M5 thread on one end plus external M12 thread and another internal M8 thread on the other side. M5 because that's what's used on the Deckel I was removing blind tapered pins from (pre-made with M5 threads for removal). Figured an M12 thread would be good thread in order to fasten various things as need arises. And with an M12 nut on it works as a stop. The other side got an M8 thread because that's what's used in in vice grips (on the ones I got), so I can attach a vice grip.
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Mar 31, 2019 11:21
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Fire Storm posted:Out of pure curiosity, could you post more angles? I wonder if potentially someone could make something. Cut with waterjet and then press/form? I hate small things like this that look like it should be easy but is probably very much not. The pressing/forming bit is always gonna be the real challenge and cost here, sidestepping a blanking station in the die would prooooobably lower the amortized final unit cost for any "small" quantity we'd be talking about here, but not by enough to really matter using industry-standard mass-production press tooling, in my (limited) experience. Then again, it might not- once you've got a five-station press tool, tacking a simple blanking station on shouldn't increase costs by as much as you'd think because most of the costs get sunk making "any multi-station press tool at all" happen, whereas cutting the blanks via waterjet is an entirely new small-run service youve gotta make happen, probably through an entirely different company who won't wrap both services into one considered bill i mean, if we're casting far enough afield here, we'll eventually get to "clips fabricated artisanally by skilled craftsmen, one by one", and strictly speaking that probably WOULD be the cheapest option for, you know, one to ten clips, or something in that neighbourhood. I could probably make one of those, just one, if you dropped me into a shop with a nice spread of forming stakes/swages/raising hammers. None of the geometries look particularly daunting, if you have the luxury of fine-tuning and fiddling with each unit until it does what it has to. It's also an approach that makes no sense for a part like this outside of very unusual circumstances (more unusual than these). Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Apr 1, 2019 |
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Apr 1, 2019 22:17
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Ambrose Burnside posted:The pressing/forming bit is always gonna be the real challenge and cost here, sidestepping a blanking station in the die would prooooobably lower the amortized final unit cost for any "small" quantity we'd be talking about here, but not by enough to really matter using industry-standard mass-production press tooling, in my (limited) experience. Then again, it might not- once you've got a five-station press tool, tacking a simple blanking station on shouldn't increase costs by as much as you'd think because most of the costs get sunk making "any multi-station press tool at all" happen, whereas cutting the blanks via waterjet is an entirely new small-run service youve gotta make happen, probably through an entirely different company who won't wrap both services into one considered bill Hello again all, sorry for being away so long, but that's exams for you. I've found another belt in better (better-ish) condition at an auction, and looking at the clips really shows how they are those remarkable things that I could make crudely by hand at great effort(excepting heat treating) if I didn't live in a flat in London with almost no tooling, but must have just flown out of the press in heaps when they were doing it industrially. Shame they aren't stainless, I could dream about finding a pile behind some abandoned factory. Fire Storm posted:Out of pure curiosity, could you post more angles? I wonder if potentially someone could make something. Cut with waterjet and then press/form? I hate small things like this that look like it should be easy but is probably very much not.     I did have another thought - I think the diameter of some 12.7mm projectile cartridge would be close enough that non-disintegrating machine gun belt links could work, especially as some seem to have a little hook to cradle the base end. A bit of saw work to shorten the link, and a mounting hole or two might do it?
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Apr 2, 2019 11:51
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Safety gear question: Is an N95 respirator filter sufficient for (hopefully very) indirect zinc fume exposure? I'm going to be doing some metal casting this summer, eventually working with some brass, and I know it's pretty easy to start burning the zinc out of that if you're running too hot. I'll always be outside and don't really intend to be huffing the melting furnace's exhaust, but I would like to have something to protect me in case the wind suddenly changes or something.
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Apr 4, 2019 01:11
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Acid Reflux posted:Safety gear question: Is an N95 respirator filter sufficient for (hopefully very) indirect zinc fume exposure? I'm going to be doing some metal casting this summer, eventually working with some brass, and I know it's pretty easy to start burning the zinc out of that if you're running too hot. I'll always be outside and don't really intend to be huffing the melting furnace's exhaust, but I would like to have something to protect me in case the wind suddenly changes or something. Yes. Good info at the NIOSH link below. But given that you're outdoors, you'll be fine. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0675.html
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Apr 4, 2019 01:22
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Awesome, thank you very much for the info. This is a little bit outside my experience and I'm trying to be safe rather than sorry, etc. I've poured aluminum in the past, but never any other metals, so I'm trying to get myself educated to prevent any dumbassery as I move onward. My new furnace is a fairly wee little guy, the Devil Forge FB1SB. It'll comfortably hold the 4kg crucible I got off Amazon, and while that's not a huge amount of metal, it's going to be perfect for the small stuff I plan on doing while I re-learn how all this works. Won't be doing anything at all for a while until the weather warms up a bit, but I'll definitely post anything cool that happens when the time comes. Current hurdle is trying to find some simple goddamn 1/8" x 3/4" mild steel bar stock to make crucible handling tools out of. None of the hardware or big box stores I've been to around here have it in stock, apparently it's a very popular size, and I'm not paying half the price of the material just to have it shipped. Or maybe I am. Ugh.
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Apr 4, 2019 02:02
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Location dependant but if there's enough machine shops near by there should be some metal supply stores that will stock that no sweat. Discount for off cuts / leftovers too. Google maps "metal supply"
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Apr 4, 2019 02:08
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Acid Reflux posted:Awesome, thank you very much for the info. This is a little bit outside my experience and I'm trying to be safe rather than sorry, etc. I've poured aluminum in the past, but never any other metals, so I'm trying to get myself educated to prevent any dumbassery as I move onward. I'd recommend checking out onlinemetals.com if you are in the USA. I work in a shop but they also always seemed to be one of the more non-commercial friendly steel suppliers. Checking out the shipping stuff you can get a flat rate box for like 7 bucks shipping for something like this.
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Apr 4, 2019 06:19
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We have exactly one local metal supplier that is historically not very retail-friendly. The two recycling yards we have don't sell back to the public either, which kind of boggles my mind a little. I've bought quite a bit from Online Metals in the past, but unfortunately the freight cost for the longer pieces I want doesn't scale very well with the amount of material I actually need. $15 to ship $30 worth.  On the upside, looks like the local Home Depot has some back in if the web site is accurate. Hopefully it'll last long enough for me to grab some during my lunch break today. I do greatly appreciate the suggestions though, and I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get closer to firing this all up for the first time.
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Apr 4, 2019 11:09
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Acid Reflux posted:We have exactly one local metal supplier that is historically not very retail-friendly. The two recycling yards we have don't sell back to the public either, which kind of boggles my mind a little. I've bought quite a bit from Online Metals in the past, but unfortunately the freight cost for the longer pieces I want doesn't scale very well with the amount of material I actually need. $15 to ship $30 worth. Where are you? https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/ this place has a bunch of locations. One might be near you. Canada, USA and UK
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Apr 4, 2019 11:38
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wesleywillis posted:Where are you? Eastern Maine. There just aren't a lot of options up here, unfortunately, but it's the price I pay sometimes for a comfortable piece of land in a quiet town. 
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Apr 4, 2019 12:36
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Acid Reflux posted:Eastern Maine. There just aren't a lot of options up here, unfortunately, but it's the price I pay sometimes for a comfortable piece of land in a quiet town. Dude. Eastern Maine is full of boat builders, machine shops and fabrication shops. Venture out and meet the local shops, they'll probably be happy to sell you drops or scrap, or order stock from their usual suppliers. Shipping won't show up, who cares about a couple of pieces when there's a truck going there anyhow. Where specifically in Maine?
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Apr 4, 2019 14:31
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Oh, I know there are. I'm in the Bangor area. The company I work for even does business with a couple of the machine shops for stuff we can't do in-house. I guess I should qualify my "aren't a lot of options" claim with "aren't a lot of options that don't involve me driving all over the countryside in hopes of scoring sixteen feet of cheap bar stock." I have a huge bit of social anxiety and don't really relish traveling all around talking to a bunch of new people about $30 worth of metal. If I can't get it from Home Depot, I'll eat the shipping and order it, because that's the second most attractive option at this point. All of this probably makes a lot more sense from my perspective, sorry to turn it into a sadbrains post.
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Apr 4, 2019 15:09
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Acid Reflux posted:Oh, I know there are. I'm in the Bangor area. The company I work for even does business with a couple of the machine shops for stuff we can't do in-house. I guess I should qualify my "aren't a lot of options" claim with "aren't a lot of options that don't involve me driving all over the countryside in hopes of scoring sixteen feet of cheap bar stock." I have a huge bit of social anxiety and don't really relish traveling all around talking to a bunch of new people about $30 worth of metal. If I can't get it from Home Depot, I'll eat the shipping and order it, because that's the second most attractive option at this point. All of this probably makes a lot more sense from my perspective, sorry to turn it into a sadbrains post. Understood. It's OK, most machinists are anti-social shut-ins! If you've already got a shop that your company knows, then you could always email them. No talking or person-to-person interaction required. I know I used to scrounge for material or try to beg/borrow/steal scraps, but found that my local metal supplier is friendly enough and their prices are SO much better than what's online or big-box.
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Apr 4, 2019 21:19
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Last year I took two bladesmithing classes with a local bladesmith, then got one of my best friends to do the same. He loved it as much as I did, so the past few months we've been building our own blacksmith forge workshop out of his garage. We've got a propane forge, a few anvils, a drill press, and a 2x72 belt grinder. This week I finished my first knife outside of any classes or instruction, and immediately FedEx'd it to my mother for her 62nd birthday (today!) I'm really enjoying learning blacksmithing, it's been really satisfying making sets of tongs, hangers, etc but I just love all the aspects involved in knifemaking. 1080 steel, Brazilian Ipe wood handle with leather inserts, brass pins. All hand-sanded to 1000 grit     yes, we need to get a buffing wheel Kenshin fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 4, 2019 |
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Apr 4, 2019 21:23
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That's cool, and you should cross-post it to the infrequently used but still very useful knifemaking thread
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Apr 5, 2019 01:36
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I'm trying to figure out the ballpark etching speed for various acids on copper, brass and nickel silver and don't want to have to experiment to get even an extremely rough idea- are there any reference tables for this, at least for copper (brass/NS are lost causes there I'd assume)? Specifically for acids, not other etchants like ferric chloride. Finding academic research about overall dissolution rates in terms of mass/moles is easy but none of it is concerned with just depth of the cut.
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Apr 5, 2019 02:23
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Ambrose Burnside posted:I'm trying to figure out the ballpark etching speed for various acids on copper, brass and nickel silver and don't want to have to experiment to get even an extremely rough idea- are there any reference tables for this, at least for copper (brass/NS are lost causes there I'd assume)? Specifically for acids, not other etchants like ferric chloride. Finding academic research about overall dissolution rates in terms of mass/moles is easy but none of it is concerned with just depth of the cut. I've had poo poo luck getting a deep etch on nickel silver. I typically use a nitric acid based etchant from Rio Grande on sterling silver, and depending on the temp and how used the acid is I etch in the 10 to 20 minutes range. I don't have any hard and fast numbers though, and it can vary a lot based on temp/strength. I intend to also do some brass and copper etching at some point, but almost all my experience is with sterling so far. There are other ways to accelerate the etch which I haven't tried, like vibration applied to the container and brushing the etch with a feather while it goes. Some metals need to be etched upside down (tape it to a styrofoam block) but silver in nitric is supposed to be right side up from what I've found. It's a matter of whether it's better for the bubbles to easily rise or for material to easily fall away. armorer fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Apr 5, 2019 |
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Apr 5, 2019 03:17
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My Deckel disassembly continues. I started removing the lead screw this week, first I removed the counter shaft to get a 22mm wrench in there to loosen the nut that retains the lead screw. The slide hammer I made last week came in handy here.  I noted that the shaft had a hole in the top so oil can run down and lubricate the shaft. Nice engineering, I will have to make sure there is no grease in there later.  A wooden wedge to lock the lead screw so I could get the nut off worked real well.   And the parts disassembled. I have to say the bronze nut is very tight on the lead screw.  Next was to remove this tapered pin that I read was troublesome for another person who did the same thing. I screwed in an M4 screw and use the slide hammer with vice grips to try and remove it, but I got no where with it and hosed it with some penetrating oil and I am leaving it for now. I am wary of breaking off the M4 screw inside. Will make further attempts this weekend and also begin to remove the aluminium plugs that are on the sides of saddle to access the oil channels and clean them out properly.   Once I get the shaft out that these blind pins are retaining I should be able to remove all the X-axis components, I did not think I'd have to do it but apparently they got oil channels in them that might be clogged with grease. So better do it while everything is apart. After that I hope I can start putting pieces back together again.
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Apr 6, 2019 10:30
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Rapulum_Dei posted:What sizes are you thinking as luck would have it a recent fusion 360 update added tapered threading. This is one thing that Solidworks needs on its thread library. It's not that hard to do a tapered thread otherwise but it'd be handy if it was a standard feature like the normal thread tool on there That disassembly looks cool as hell and makes me wish I had the space. I've set one rule with my partner for when we buy a house, either it has a decent shed/garage out back or it has a big enough back yard I can put one up just the way I like, so that I have room for all my tools and the inevitable machines I'll end up buying and put in there i.e. cnc machines etc
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Apr 6, 2019 11:35
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Anyone here got any experience with adjustable three jaw chucks? Works like a normal 3-jaw but you can do a final adjustment with 4 screws like on a 4-jaw until you get the part running concentric. I've never used one and my 3-jaw is worn out and lovely, I often switch to my 4-jaw for that but it is also worn out and lovely, the jaws that are on it are bellmouthed a year after I bored them true, not very hard metal in them. So in the long run I want a new 3 and 4 jaw chuck. But i am thinking a new 3-jaw will be best to start with, and that really has me interested in the adjustable versions. They all cost $$$ though. But I just saw one for a reasonable price of 352 euros of a reputable brand, I think (Zentra): https://www.shop.santool.de/en/clam...ucks-fine-adjustment-o125-mm.html?action_ms=1 Compare to a non-adjustable TOS chuck for 246 euros: https://www.shop.santool.de/en/chuc...on/tos-three-jaw-lathe-chuck-iug-o125-mm.html What do you guys think, is the adjustability feature worth the extra 100?
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Apr 6, 2019 15:45
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With some relief I can report my impulse decision mill is ALIVE! No power crossfeed or coolant working yet but it chooches.  Now to spend more than the value of the machine on tooling 
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Apr 6, 2019 17:52
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Rapulum_Dei posted:With some relief I can report my impulse decision mill is ALIVE! What's up knee mill buddy? The power crossfeed should be easy, the coolant might be easy or hard depending on the issue.
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Apr 6, 2019 20:18
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His Divine Shadow posted:Anyone here got any experience with adjustable three jaw chucks? Works like a normal 3-jaw but you can do a final adjustment with 4 screws like on a 4-jaw until you get the part running concentric. I've never used one and my 3-jaw is worn out and lovely, I often switch to my 4-jaw for that but it is also worn out and lovely, the jaws that are on it are bellmouthed a year after I bored them true, not very hard metal in them. So in the long run I want a new 3 and 4 jaw chuck. But i am thinking a new 3-jaw will be best to start with, and that really has me interested in the adjustable versions. In the US these tend to be sold under the Set Tru trademark I think (phone posting but I think Bison or Buck called them that). They are absolutely worth it for dialing in the runout on your old clapped out lathe or a couple other tricks.
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Apr 7, 2019 01:31
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Pfeh, an adjustable three-jaw like that is just good money after bad, real operators develop extremely involved shimming regimes that require an individual assembly guide for each jaw's bespoke shim setup (please do not mix up the shim sets) e: thats a throwaway joke but i definitely have successfully used shim stock with a three-jaw chuck in a pinch to manage (as opposed to 'fully correct') bad runout in a half-clapped south bend lathe born during the eisenhower administration and abused by students ever since. i probably saved as many as 5-10 minutes of my time and all i had to give up was actually fixing the problem for more than a single setup Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 04:35
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someone find me the space to hold it
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Apr 7, 2019 06:21
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You can keep it at my house if you want...
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Apr 7, 2019 14:07
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I guess this would be the best place to ask this. Any suggestions for mounting a sprocket on a motor shaft using only hand tools? I ground and filed a keyway and drilled and tapped the hub for a set screw and while it never slips, inevitably it does shake loose and the sprocket just pops off the shaft. At this point Im not sure what I could do short of finding an actual machinist. Would drilling into the shaft and screwing it down make sense? mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 8, 2019 |
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Apr 8, 2019 16:26
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You could drill a little dent into the flat on the shaft do that the set-screw has a place to go, yeah. Also use loctite.
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Apr 8, 2019 16:36
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Yeah, grind/file a flat on the shaft for the set-screw and then loctite.
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Apr 8, 2019 16:41
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Is it a bad idea to use linear scales for closed loop on a CNC machine? I found a post on cnczone ( ) that indicated servos were better for closed loop stuff, but the reason given was, 'Well the software just doesn't work'. The other reason I found was that 'Setting up scales is fiddly and time consuming'. I've been kind of operating under the assumption that you would obviously want a linear encoder for positioning because then you know *exactly* where your machine is. Like, wouldn't that give you automatic backlash compensation? Throw a stepper + whatever motion system you want at it and then have software compensate for inaccuracies / foibles of the hardware? I have zero practical knowledge of how this stuff works so maybe there's an obvious answer that I'm missing or something.
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Apr 8, 2019 19:10
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