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Surprise Giraffe posted:What changed in Corbyn's labour after the referendum that reflects that? hmm what event happened that made the press take corbyn and the labour left seriously? i genuinely have no idea May's brexit in dog format. Sorry about the huge size https://i.imgur.com/fpf5n4T.mp4
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:11 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:32 |
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forkboy84 posted:The main thing is that under the British constitution there is the concept of Parliamentary Sovereignty. To quote the constitutional historian Stanley B Chrimes, "No Act of Parliament can be unconstitutional, for the law of the land knows not the word or the idea." So yeah, it's not relevant. That comes from a de facto separation of powers that the Constitution mostly assumes as given rather than explicitly granted or restrained.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:11 |
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Nuclear Spoon posted:hey so uh how the gently caress does the house of lords work again It's just a second house that debates acts in the same way was the Commons but with their own set of weirdness's. Bill go through 1st and 2nd readings etc and get passed in the same way.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:14 |
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Surprise Giraffe posted:What changed in Corbyn's labour after the referendum that reflects that? I believe the point is that Corbyn took power of Labour in September 2015 and the EU referendum was June 2016, and he spent most of the rest of 2016 being fuckbarrelled by the PLP
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:14 |
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Nuclear Spoon posted:hey so uh how the gently caress does the house of lords work again https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1113745687424970752
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:14 |
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lol
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:18 |
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OwlFancier posted:To be clear I quite like that the UK doesn't have one right up until the point I am made supreme secretary of the UK at which point I'm writing a very socialist one. Are there any good socialist constitutions out there? I can easily imagine a constitution making platitudes about free services and no inequality and all that, but if a socialist government fails to achieve these, does the constitution offer a path to punish that government in some manner?
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:18 |
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stanley be obeying the law
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:21 |
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Nuclear Spoon posted:hey so uh how the gently caress does the house of lords work again When the house of commons tries to sneak through a questionable policy with minimal debate. The house of lords holds it up like "would you look at this loving bullshit" Then the newspapers runs that headline. The house of lords sends it back to the house of commons and the house votes on it again. This time with extra public scrutiny and MPs might actually end up held accountable. Likewise since the lords are unelected and have no real power, nothing to gain or lose. They're just up there LARPing basically which somehow ends up with a somewhat progressive bunch compared to the house of commons.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:22 |
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Are there any good socialist constitutions out there? I can easily imagine a constitution making platitudes about free services and no inequality and all that, but if a socialist government fails to achieve these, does the constitution offer a path to punish that government in some manner? the soviet constitution, hilariously, was really good and a lot of opposition made themselves obnoxious for campaigning in favour of enforcement of the constitution other than that there's cuba's old one, i guess
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:22 |
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https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1113741905572114434
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:24 |
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Guavanaut posted:Why are they making these trade and customs treaties political? This is a very good point which bears repeating. the idea that trade and customs are somehow independent from the exercise of political power was dumb from the start. To very lengthily quote Ivan Rogers from back in december, quote:The sovereigntist argument for Brexit, which was one powerful element of the referendum campaign – taking back control of laws, borders and money – is a perfectly legitimate case to make. So yea trade and customs and standards is pretty much how the EU, in particular, does project its political power. It's p mystifying how brexiters managed to convince themselves and others that UK imports of wine and cars meant the EU would just surrender all of that
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:25 |
I think we have some sovcits too, who are always a good laugh when they get into the court system.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:26 |
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V. Illych L. posted:the soviet constitution, hilariously, was really good and a lot of opposition made themselves obnoxious for campaigning in favour of enforcement of the constitution The Soviet constitution guaranteed stuff like a place to live, healthcare and food to eat which was overwhelmingly enforced after the Stalin era.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:29 |
Decapitated chicken on a wheel of fortune style board right?
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:30 |
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:So yea trade and customs and standards is pretty much how the EU, in particular, does project its political power. It's p mystifying how brexiters managed to convince themselves and others that UK imports of wine and cars meant the EU would just surrender all of that They and their audience are idiots, blind nationalists or stand to make mad bank off of it. Hth. Jose posted:its trying to apply the benefit of hindsight with how events have transpired despite the fact that Corbyn campaigning to leave would have crippled the party almost certainly and just empowered the tory leavers who are weakened by May losing her majority Sure it's a counterfactual and yes Labour would in reality suffered badly internally to actually argue for Leave but it's not like the idea of things being bad for lots of people was a new or even uncommon idea before the 2017 election, it was just the first time in a long time the reasons and ability to change that had a chance to connected to a left-wing project. Suggesting that the referendum could also have made that connection isn't some insane projection, it's just that it didn't happen.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:35 |
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https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/1113568578408734720
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:35 |
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Dejawesp posted:The Soviet constitution guaranteed stuff like a place to live, healthcare and food to eat which was overwhelmingly enforced after the Stalin era. it also guaranteed things like secret elections and freedom of expression/a judicial state which emphatically were not
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:36 |
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namesake posted:They and their audience are idiots, blind nationalists or stand to make mad bank off of it. Hth. this also completely ignores how the press ignored corbyn during the referendum
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:38 |
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I could watch this all day
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:40 |
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Lexit is loving idiotic. Socialism In One Country is an absurd fantasy given the current globalised economic system. A far better and more realistic project would be to remain in and form a socialist bloc to move the EU in the right direction. Not to mention that Brexit is fundamentally a right wing racist nationalist project. Chinese Gordon fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Apr 4, 2019 |
# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:41 |
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Jesus christ. How much closer can we get to an outright statement of "can't you poor people just gently caress off and die somewhere out the way?" This is sickening.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:41 |
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Chinese Gordon posted:Lexit is loving idiotic. Socialism In One Country is an absurd fantasy given the current globalised economic system. A far better and more realistic project would be to remain in and form a socialist bloc to move the EU in the right direction. basically undoable given the composition of the eu, it really is quite fundamentally broken ideologically
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:42 |
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V. Illych L. posted:the soviet constitution, hilariously, was really good and a lot of opposition made themselves obnoxious for campaigning in favour of enforcement of the constitution For real, the Soviet constitution of 1936 is great. "To every Union Republic is reserved the right freely to secede from the U.S.S.R." All of Chapter 10 on fundamental rights & 11 on the electoral system.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:43 |
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UnlimitedSpessmans posted:wondering how the #fbpe gang are gona find a way to claim that stopping no deal and securing a long extension had nothing to do with jezza. They'll just switch back to 'Jezza is going to give us a hard brexit!' because literally nothing other than straight up Remain is a soft brexit to them.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:43 |
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V. Illych L. posted:it also guaranteed things like secret elections and freedom of expression/a judicial state which emphatically were not None of those can be eaten or shelter from the winter. Stands in sharp contrast to the US system where people are completely free (to die of exposure or starvation or lack of healthcare) unless they toil like peasants all day long.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:43 |
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https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1113753348463910912
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:44 |
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V. Illych L. posted:it also guaranteed things like secret elections and freedom of expression/a judicial state which emphatically were not
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:44 |
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Jose posted:this also completely ignores how the press ignored corbyn during the referendum If Remain versus Leave had been able to be pitched as Tory versus Labour the press would have done so. They would have been damning of Labour obviously but it would have had to cover them. With any luck it would have had the same sort of impact as the leaked manifesto did during the election. Both sides of the actual referendum were smothered in capitalism and racism so if you think thats bad and shouldnt have happened that way then you either have to pick apart the dynamics and say what could have disrupted the flows as they happened or go even further into the counterfactual and say what needed to change to stop the referendum entirely which is an ever bigger ask.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:45 |
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Chinese Gordon posted:Lexit is loving idiotic. Socialism In One Country is an absurd fantasy given the current globalised economic system. A far better and more realistic project would be to remain in and form a socialist bloc to move the EU in the right direction. That's a great fantasy but who is going to be in that socialist bloc? Britain, Greece & Portugal, slightly outweighed by everyone else being either liberals of various shades or fash. Reforming the EU "in the right direction" is about as likely as reforming the Tories in the right direction.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:46 |
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namesake posted:say what needed to change to stop the referendum entirely which is an ever bigger ask. No, you're right.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:46 |
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Dejawesp posted:None of those can be eaten or shelter from the winter. call me demanding but i'd quite like to both have a roof over my head and reasonable confidence that my online shitposting doesn't land me in a labour camp
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:46 |
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I've had one job for two decades. What did I do wrong
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:47 |
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clever move, this
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:47 |
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V. Illych L. posted:call me demanding but i'd quite like to both have a roof over my head and reasonable confidence that my online shitposting doesn't land me in a labour camp What you want then is the Brezhnev era. It had the perfect balance of social support and tangible repression. Yeah some people still went to the gulags but at least people knew why and how it could have been avoided, and that's an important part.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:54 |
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Sanford posted:Jesus christ. How much closer can we get to an outright statement of "can't you poor people just gently caress off and die somewhere out the way?" This is sickening. I lived in Edinburgh from 2010 for ~5 years and during that time the number of people sleeping rough just exploded. The number was already shocking to me when I moved there because it wasn't something I was used to seeing in Belfast (although it's now commonplace here as well but that's a different story). City of Edinburgh council and the police worked together to basically torment homeless people to try to get them to gently caress off to anywhere else and stop ruining the look of the city for tourists. From what I saw of and heard about the homeless shelters around the city centre, it was pretty loving obvious why people didn't want to go there.
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:55 |
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re: labour setting up their own leave campaign it would've been a shitshow, the party would've split and you'd have thrown away the only left-wing alternative in europe with a chance of actually governing labour's actual referendum strategy was a pretty good one, but hampered a lot by the official remain campaign being a bunch of leavers and 'well it's poo poo but leaving is even worse' not being nearly as headline-grabbing as MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS!!! BREAKING POINT!!! + the entire press actually hating the corbyn project
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:55 |
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Dejawesp posted:What you want then is the Brezhnev era. It had the perfect balance of social support and tangible repression. Yeah some people still went to the gulags but at least people knew why and how it could have been avoided, and that's an important part. i don't, actually, want to move from 2019 norway to a 1970s soviet union for many reasons, political and academic liberties included
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:58 |
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you weirdo
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 11:58 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:32 |
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For those interested in constitutions a translation of the constitution of Finland can be read here: https://oikeusministerio.fi/en/constitution-of-finland Edit: Correction, the translation is unofficial (as the legan languages in Finland are Finnish and Swedish).
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# ? Apr 4, 2019 12:00 |