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He probably owes like a million favors for being allowed to keep the chief of ops posting as a noncom after they found the wormhole
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Apr 4, 2019 03:15
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Nodosaur posted:why the hell is starfleet intelligence sending the chief engineer of the most strategically important alpha quadrant station who's solely responsible for keeping said crucial position running on a deep undercover mission? why does section 31 get a boner for bashir, whose entire personality is based on being an oblivious doofus
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Apr 4, 2019 03:17
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Pick posted:why does section 31 get a boner for bashir, whose entire personality is based on being an oblivious doofus
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Apr 4, 2019 03:19
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Agnosticnixie posted:It's basically just the non show tie-in stuff. Except the Disco books because Kurtzmann inexplicably wants his super special show's tie-ins to be alpha canon. Discovery's already contradicted its tie-in novels.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:31
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Angry Salami posted:Discovery's already contradicted its tie-in novels. Discovery's already contradicted TOS and TNG, too. They don't give a poo poo.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:34
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Nodosaur posted:why the hell is starfleet intelligence sending the chief engineer of the most strategically important alpha quadrant station who's solely responsible for keeping said crucial position running on a deep undercover mission? He volunteered. Anything to get away from Keiko.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:34
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Angry Salami posted:Discovery's already contradicted its tie-in novels. Look nobody can keep continuity with 2 years' worth of lovely novels, this is an impossible super-human effort.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:36
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Automatic Slim posted:He volunteered. Keiko was on Bajor! Cythereal posted:Discovery's already contradicted TOS and TNG, too. They don't give a poo poo. TOS doesn't make it two episodes without contradicting itself. Just saying.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:37
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at least o'brien got Chester i guess bashir got an invite to the "romulan senator killers club" w/ garak and sisko
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Apr 4, 2019 03:42
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Tighclops posted:hello, I had to look up what 'beta canon' was and now I'm going to not be sober for the rest of the evening Gamma canon I dare you
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Apr 4, 2019 03:43
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Lambda canon, now that's some hosed up stuff.
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Apr 4, 2019 03:45
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So wait though, does this mean Voyager is Delta canon? 
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Apr 4, 2019 04:19
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Lambda canon, now that's some hosed up stuff. Lambda canon includes all Star Trek graffiti, imdb reviews, and fan fiction written by TNG or DSN cast members.
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Apr 4, 2019 04:23
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Pick posted:why does section 31 get a boner for bashir, whose entire personality is based on being an oblivious doofus Same reason Garak keeps approaching him in the first season: oblivious doofuses are easy to trick into becoming intelligence assets.
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Apr 4, 2019 04:29
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Same reason Garak keeps approaching him in the first season: oblivious doofuses are easy to trick into becoming intelligence assets. yeah. thats why.
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Apr 4, 2019 04:29
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This tumblr actually does have a bot make scripts, instead of a person badly pretending to be a bot. It could be worse. http://iforcedabot.tumblr.com/post/183554721591/i-forced-a-bot-to-watch-every-tng-and-ds9-episode quote:This episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation opens with a scene where a young Captain Kirk is suddenly in the midst of an encounter with the alien race, which has been described as an “extinction threat,” and is described as “a race whose only mission is to destroy anything that may threaten the human race.” The entire scene is then interrupted by a scene in which a young Captain Kirk is standing on a bridge, surrounded by a large number of people, and being asked why he is standing on a bridge. The scene then proceeds to have Kirk say, “I am the captain of this vessel. I am what I am.”
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Apr 4, 2019 04:35
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Spacebump posted:Lambda canon includes all Star Trek graffiti, imdb reviews, and fan fiction written by TNG or DSN cast members. Lambda Canon's got it goin' on:  
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Apr 4, 2019 04:36
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Star Trek street art is canon
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Apr 4, 2019 04:37
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Kira Nerys: *as she prepares to violate causality and blow up her mother and Dukat* I don't know what Stockholm Syndrome is. Like, I get that she's hurt by what she discovered but it's kind of a disservice to this plot by not entering into her discussion with Sisko at the end.
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Apr 4, 2019 05:13
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Pick posted:Star Trek street art is canon Your avatar is loving great, by the way.
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Apr 4, 2019 05:18
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Apr 4, 2019 05:24
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Pakled posted:(season 7) She does kiss mirror Ezri too. So?
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Apr 4, 2019 09:38
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Nodosaur posted:Kira Nerys: *as she prepares to violate causality and blow up her mother and Dukat* I don't know what Stockholm Syndrome is. I actually do find the idea of not knowing about Stockholm syndrome perfectly plausible considering we have like actual situations where psychs are uncertain whether some psychological disorders exist because they're only encountered in some cultures (e.g. DID seems to be an entirely american phenomenon)
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Apr 4, 2019 09:45
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SAD is fake, it only happens in Scandinavia
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Apr 4, 2019 09:52
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Agnosticnixie posted:I actually do find the idea of not knowing about Stockholm syndrome perfectly plausible considering we have like actual situations where psychs are uncertain whether some psychological disorders exist because they're only encountered in some cultures (e.g. DID seems to be an entirely american phenomenon) *crosses arms*
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Apr 4, 2019 10:30
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skasion posted:Even when the DS9 mirror episodes do anything interesting (not a given) they don’t really have a point. They’re very surface level, action adventure stuff. That’s lame. I don’t think I’m blowing anyone’s mind by saying that the Federation is a metaphorical stand-in for the USA. In the 60s, the US was engaged in the Cold War with the Soviets, and in popular perception this was seen as a battle between good and evil. America was the shining, democratic force of good against the totalitarian Russian force of evil (to put it incredibly mildly, in reality this was not really the case, but we’re taking about national image here). So, when it came down to imagining what the Federation/America might be like in “opposite world”, the dichotomy was to make it evil instead of good. By the TNG era, the Soviets were either a complete shitshow or completely defeated. With no real competition to the US and with America the sole superpower, the national image was less that the US was “good” and more that it was “strong”. The idea that America could ever be conquered is laughable, and the country can swat any niggling problems away with effortless cruise missiles. And Trek reflected this - now the Federation was almost always the most technologically advanced, and the most politically stable. Extensive military clashes were avoided because no one wants a war with the Federation. Even in Voyager, a show about a ship stranded in completely foreign territory where almost no one has even heard of the Federation, our heroes are almost always more advanced than anyone they meet. So, when deciding how to depict the newer era of Trek in “opposite world” they decided to make the Federation (or at least the humans) weak. Now, instead of being the philosopher kings of the galaxy, humans were under the boot of all the scrub aliens who couldn’t dream of touching them in the real universe. The oppressed holocaust survivor becomes a brutal and decadent dictator. To be honest, I think they explored this theme better by introducing foes like the Borg and the Dominion. Maybe that’s why they never bothered with the mirror universe on TNG. Angry_Ed posted:I'd argue DS9 is less cynical and nasty than people like to claim. I mean everyone keeps linking the Root Beer scene as "federation.avi" because of how well it portrays an outsider's view of the Federation's idealistic utopia, but they always leave off the last two sentences: Yeah, exactly. Quark and Garak are borne of their cultures and as such have a great deal of skepticism towards the Federation’s values. But in their heart of hearts they know those values are better than their own. If DS9 has thesis statement, it’s that the Federation’s values are a shining example to the rest of the galaxy. Pretty much every relevant major power in the show - with the exception of the Romulans (though remember the Romulan CIA is totally destroyed) - ends up being influenced by the Federation into reforming themselves. Odo, influenced by the Feds, is implied to convince the Founders to be better. Worf, who was raised and lived his whole life in the Federation, violently deposes the Klingon chancellor and installs someone with values closer to the Federation in his place. Rom’s character arc over the series is essentially an alt-right deprogramming by the Federation and then he becomes Nagus. Kira, Garak and Damar are all influenced by the Federation into overthrowing the dictatorship on Cardassia. In most of these cases, the Federation has no conscious hand in making these things happen. All that happens is that over seven seasons these outsiders witness the objective fact that the Federation is better and stronger than all its contemporaries, and try to reform their own societies along that pattern. TL; DR, DS9 is the most utopian Star Trek.
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Apr 4, 2019 18:06
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Calling DS9 cynical seems to me a little bit like calling criticism of some of the US's actions "unpatriotic". It is definitely not exactly the same thing, mind you. It's fair and valid to argue that Star Trek is built on the assumption that the Federation really has solved all of humanity's institutional problems, and that the optimism inherent in that assumption is a powerful thing. And it's fiction, so it is in fact possible to just say that's how it is, and be done with it. My argument would be that DS9 is not so much criticizing/challenging Starfleet as it is Star Trek itself. DS9 didn't "poke holes" in Roddenberry's vision; they were already there, but they were ignored. Every writer who ever worked on any episode or movie in the franchise contributed their own personal biases and influences which altogether, unintentionally, resulted in some questionable implications. When you're attempting to explain the workings of a society that doesn't exist and technology that doesn't exist, you occasionally miss the mark like that. I view DS9 as contributing a valuable service to the franchise by digging through that mess and still managing to pull a strong, optimistic vision out of it.
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Apr 4, 2019 18:37
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I’m not even sure I’d say DS9 pokes holes in the “*~Star Trek ideals~*”. DS9’s goal was always to put those ideals through the wringer and examine what happens in the aftermath.
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Apr 4, 2019 18:44
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I finished Enterprise this week. I can see why the finale annoyed so many people. Enterprise probably has more bad episodes than good but some of the good ones are a lot of fun. It's too bad the show's first two seasons were as bad as they were. Next up is probably DS9.
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Apr 4, 2019 19:07
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I’m not even sure I’d say DS9 pokes holes in the “*~Star Trek ideals~*”. DS9’s goal was always to put those ideals through the wringer and examine what happens in the aftermath. I would say that was truer earlier, but that it became far more collapsed later on. The original idea of the Dominion as a powerful trade empire that was essentially a funhouse mirror of how the Federation exerts its influence would have been far more meaningful than what we got. At some point, they surrendered being a deconstruction and I think that took away a lot of what made the premise compelling.
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Apr 4, 2019 19:08
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One of the actual best things in DS9 is the bajoran politics, the part everyone hates except meeeeee
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Apr 4, 2019 19:11
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I wish we got to see more Air Force Bajor and other elements of their culture other than farming and religion.
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Apr 4, 2019 19:12
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HD DAD posted:I wish we got to see more Air Force Bajor and other elements of their culture other than farming and religion. But don't you get it? Bejor is the Midwest of the Alpha Quadrant.
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Apr 4, 2019 19:14
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It's a culture finding its footing after being curbstomped, but also only the oldest people still alive really remember how it was "before". They're clinging to a history and a culture that has lost huge pieces of itself, and the character of which has been compromised along with the millions of lives lost. Some want a return, some want reform, and their position is still vulnerable. Joining the Federation means accepting a new authority and some people aren't ready for that; refusing to join puts them at risk of falling under a different authority whether they like it or not. During this time of upheaval, their most respected leader decides to chill out on murder planet moon, leaving a vacuum for nurse ratchet and Barbie's boyfriend
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Apr 4, 2019 19:18
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Pick posted:It's a culture finding its footing after being curbstomped, but also only the oldest people still alive really remember how it was "before". They're clinging to a history and a culture that has lost huge pieces of itself, and the character of which has been compromised along with the millions of lives lost. Some want a return, some want reform, and their position is still vulnerable. Joining the Federation means accepting a new authority and some people aren't ready for that; refusing to join puts them at risk of falling under a different authority whether they like it or not. During this time of upheaval, their most respected leader decides to chill out on murder planet moon, leaving a vacuum for nurse ratchet and Barbie's boyfriend I'm a fan of the bajoran politics too and I think that when I learned the reason they'd left the Kai on that planet it blew my mind, it felt like the writers didn't actually care about the overarching story and what we ended up with was a fluke, a lucky fluke. Here's a character that's mega important to Bajor and to the religion that they're talking about, a huge thing. Then she just stays on a random planet in the gamma quadrant and everyone's totally okay with that, then you find out they did it because they wanted to kill a character and she was the only major-but-not-major character who they could do it to.
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Apr 4, 2019 20:03
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They also missed a huge story opportunity with re-integrating the Bajoran diaspora. Remember? That whole cornerstone of the TNG episode that introduced the Bajora(ns), Ensign Ro? Where there are lots of Bajorans who fled the Cardassian invasion? Yeah, what happens when a bunch of them want to move back in? What kind of ideas and experiences do they bring back with them? What kind of conflict is there between the people who stayed to fight a guerilla war and the people who lit out (even if some of those people continued to try and wage low-key war against the Cardassians off-planet)?
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Apr 4, 2019 20:26
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Ezri got promoted to Lieutenant in two episodes. That sound you hear is the muffled screaming of Harry Kim coming from the Delta Quadrant.
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Apr 4, 2019 20:48
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Nodosaur posted:Ezri got promoted to Lieutenant in two episodes. Nog has higher rank than Kim and he didn't even finish the academy
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Apr 4, 2019 20:50
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Nodosaur posted:Ezri got promoted to Lieutenant in two episodes. She might have already been due for it?
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Apr 4, 2019 20:54
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:They also missed a huge story opportunity with re-integrating the Bajoran diaspora. Remember? That whole cornerstone of the TNG episode that introduced the Bajora(ns), Ensign Ro? Where there are lots of Bajorans who fled the Cardassian invasion? all this is the good stuff. I really do think they'd have touched on it if they'd kept the stakes more s 1-2 and less s 5-6-7. I know you like the dominion war so sometimes I feel bad ragging on it, and there are aspects of it I really like, but I think that as a deconstruction, DS9 works best at a more modest scale because--as someone else noted--when it comes down to, like, existential threats then whether the Federation over-reaches with respect to requirements for membership etc. is just excessively small potatoes to feel relevant, where that's the meat of the Implications
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Apr 4, 2019 21:17
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