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I'd imagine that leads to buying up of lots of tangible goods in the hope they'll keep resale value for later - people like to have security. While Chinese property may depreciate, they do save a bunch into government schemes do they not?
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Apr 6, 2019 10:08
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Beefeater1980 posted:E: A corollary to this is that the sensible thing to do if you ever get your hands on any money is to spend as much of it as possible on building up your passive income so you can upgrade via petty bourgeois to full FYGM bourgeois. I’d actually be really interested to see what a “use it or lose it” economy where you spend everything you earn each month and lose any surplus looks like. Has anyone ever actually tried that? Argentina gets really close to this with its 40% annual inflation but people just end up buying dollars, i.e. switching to another economy. During the time of the currency controls where buying dollars was extremely restricted, on paper you could have said the economy was then something like that... except the rich still had a myriad ways to move their money to dollars, while the poor didn’t. Basically, your thought experiment would only work if the entire world switched to that system overnight
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Apr 6, 2019 10:10
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https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1114231617239883779 A good lad!
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Apr 6, 2019 10:19
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lol https://twitter.com/novaramedia/status/1114456405656985600
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Apr 6, 2019 10:29
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Wasn't there some town in Germany that experimented with a local currency that gave you more spending power in the town's shops but also had an expiry date?
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Apr 6, 2019 10:30
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https://twitter.com/alexsobel/status/1114461374644674560
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Apr 6, 2019 10:46
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Lol at someone unironically using the term "captains of industry" get outta here 
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Apr 6, 2019 10:51
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Cabbit posted:When you give money to poor people they spend it, stimulating the economy, which benefits everyone (the rich disproportionately so, probably, because they are better positioned to take advantage of a strong economy). When you give it to rich people, they stick it in the bank, which functionally does nothing for them.
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Apr 6, 2019 10:53
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lol, they really are trying to go Galt.
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Apr 6, 2019 11:01
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Paul.Power posted:Wasn't there some town in Germany that experimented with a local currency that gave you more spending power in the town's shops but also had an expiry date? I could have sworn this has been tried more than once in the UK but I'm struggling to think where. Edit: Ah Bristol tried something like this: https://www.theguardian.com/local-government-network/2013/jun/17/bristol-pound-local-currencies
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Apr 6, 2019 11:02
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Beefeater1980 posted:Whereas a hundred miles to the north of the HK bar I’m sitting in now, there is no concept of freehold so the moment you buy a place it starts losing value (also foreigners aren’t allowed to own property). I don't follow this at all. There is no concept of "freehold" anywhere in the world except in the UK; as far as I understand, everywhere else it's just "property". Also, why would property instantly start losing value? Or do you mean it loses value because you can only buy a "leasehold" because "freehold" doesn't exist (in which case I would say, you cannot buy property full stop)?
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Apr 6, 2019 11:03
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tritsch posted:I could have sworn this has been tried more than once in the UK but I'm struggling to think where. brixton pound?
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Apr 6, 2019 11:03
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There was also the recently-abandoned Totnes pound, which I saw in person a whole one time in my year of living down the road from the town.
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Apr 6, 2019 11:33
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Vlex posted:There was also the recently-abandoned Totnes pound, which I saw in person a whole one time in my year of living down the road from the town. A Very local currency for Very local people!
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Apr 6, 2019 11:36
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Send them milk
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Apr 6, 2019 11:44
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NewMars posted:My favorite part of it was the implication that the game isn't even a full golf game, but instead is literally nothing but putting. Yet, they still give you a full range of clubs and the ability to enter POWER DRIVE. Gotta hand it to the Putting Challenge devs: most golf games wouldn't bother to render the parking lot.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:18
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:The hatred towards landlords itt felt p weird at first, I've never thought of it as more problematic than any other unfair consequence of private property. It's never even come up as a thing around here There's a limit on the number of houses you can own in Sweden? Can you elaborate? I'd love to bring this up for the 'scandis are so successful because they embraced capitalism with some minor safety nets!' crowd.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:22
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What's the thread's view on Tom Walker/Jonathan Pie stuff? Not necessarily for his politics but for his views on how labels and identity politics dominate discourse and steer/shut down debate now. After the LBC misstep I don't want to end up with a deluge of exactly why he's bad.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:23
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Miftan posted:There's a limit on the number of houses you can own in Sweden? Can you elaborate? I'd love to bring this up for the 'scandis are so successful because they embraced capitalism with some minor safety nets!' crowd. that crowd are idiots, scandinavia was successful because they focussed on making a safe, predictable environment and giving channels for dialogue where the unions somehow became the strongest proponents of productivity gain - norwegian TUC has worker-directed effectivisation as part of its core ideogy there was an underlying assumption that unless business behaved we'd just abolish it nowadays, for various reasons, social democracy is basically a dead ideology and leadership is gaining power at the expense of the workers - at almost every level this emerges, and our societies are drifting towards your hideous anglo-american system all the time
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Apr 6, 2019 12:32
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Bundy posted:What's the thread's view on Tom Walker/Jonathan Pie stuff? Not necessarily for his politics but for his views on how labels and identity politics dominate discourse and steer/shut down debate now. After the LBC misstep I don't want to end up with a deluge of exactly why he's bad. Better brace yourself 
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Apr 6, 2019 12:41
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Bundy posted:What's the thread's view on Tom Walker/Jonathan Pie stuff? Not necessarily for his politics but for his views on how labels and identity politics dominate discourse and steer/shut down debate now. After the LBC misstep I don't want to end up with a deluge of exactly why he's bad.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:42
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https://twitter.com/basialcummings/status/1114461459688435712
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Apr 6, 2019 12:43
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Pilchenstein posted:Wild how every so often we get a new poster who's just asking questions and all of the questions are coincidentally designed in a lab to rile the thread up. It's really not. Regardless of someone's politics/view, I prefer to "play the ball, not the man" so to speak in that I think it's perfectly possible to discuss/attack/reason about someone's argument without knowing or caring to bring the personal details of the arguer into it. I'm not the latest in a line of trolls to come and stir up poo poo in D&D, my posts can be taken at face value and there's no malice behind them. This happened in the last dogpile, a lot of assumptions were made and a lot of responses came back to things people thought I was implying, rather than what I actually said. If I'm simply not left/anarchist enough for the thread, I can either stop posting in it and just read it as the discussion is interesting, or you can assume I'm posting in good faith and respond in kind.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:48
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Bundy posted:What's the thread's view on Tom Walker/Jonathan Pie stuff? Not necessarily for his politics but for his views on how labels and identity politics dominate discourse and steer/shut down debate now. After the LBC misstep I don't want to end up with a deluge of exactly why he's bad. He's a big fan of count dankula which is good evidence of him having stupid views about freedom of speech
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Apr 6, 2019 12:50
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There are very few arguments I would countenance about the evils of idpol and freeee speeeeeeech. Cos they are almost invariably bad and made by dorks.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:54
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OwlFancier posted:There are very few arguments I would countenance about the evils of idpol and freeee speeeeeeech. Cos they are almost invariably bad and made by dorks. idpol can be very very bad though
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Apr 6, 2019 12:56
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Bundy posted:It's really not. Regardless of someone's politics/view, I prefer to "play the ball, not the man" so to speak in that I think it's perfectly possible to discuss/attack/reason about someone's argument without knowing or caring to bring the personal details of the arguer into it. I'm not the latest in a line of trolls to come and stir up poo poo in D&D, my posts can be taken at face value and there's no malice behind them. This happened in the last dogpile, a lot of assumptions were made and a lot of responses came back to things people thought I was implying, rather than what I actually said. That's fine, but then you have to bring up specific points he made that you feel are worth discussing as opposed to asking about the man himself.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:56
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V. Illych L. posted:idpol can be very very bad though I'm eyeballing you very hard right now.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:57
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Bundy posted:What's the thread's view on Tom Walker/Jonathan Pie stuff? Not necessarily for his politics but for his views on how labels and identity politics dominate discourse and steer/shut down debate now. After the LBC misstep I don't want to end up with a deluge of exactly why he's bad. He's kinda poo poo. For one, they don't? We literally just had an election more about class and economic issues than about your "stance" on gay/trans people having rights - see 2017. The existence of such a dichotomy only existed when all politics was conducted in a neoliberial economic framework such that there was not substantive difference on economic policy between parties, and such social policy was used to create e pretense of difference. Furthermore, complaints of "identity politics" and "shutting down debate" often occur simply because previously marginalized groups have just enough of a voice to demand that rich white straight men stop talking about their groups like they don't exist or are not worthy of consideration or entering into the debate. A refusal to coexist with people who offend your very sense of self is reasonable, and their anger often justified? Also, I don't like his "angry shouting man who is off air" gimmick and don't actually engage with his content, so that's just a very generic defense. Go into more detail and enter this conversation with good faith. Oh, if you want more left-wing takes from outside the thread that might challenge you, read through the back pages of Current Affairs, an american left-wing magazine. It's got a lot of takes on american issues you might not care about, but also some wider criticism worth reading. Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Apr 6, 2019 |
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Apr 6, 2019 12:57
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Bundy posted:It's really not. Regardless of someone's politics/view, I prefer to "play the ball, not the man" so to speak in that I think it's perfectly possible to discuss/attack/reason about someone's argument without knowing or caring to bring the personal details of the arguer into it. I'm not the latest in a line of trolls to come and stir up poo poo in D&D, my posts can be taken at face value and there's no malice behind them. This happened in the last dogpile, a lot of assumptions were made and a lot of responses came back to things people thought I was implying, rather than what I actually said. What dogpile? You asked if people liked James "Galaxy" O'Brien and everyone was like "nah mate" and "he was good a few years ago but things changed"
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Apr 6, 2019 12:57
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the most obvious example of this being america, where idpol is so entrenched that the president is currently representing the interests of nobody in particular except by identity, and rich people
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Apr 6, 2019 12:57
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Bristol Transformed is loving amazing by the way.
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Apr 6, 2019 12:59
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Jonathan Pedophile Information Exchange basically trades on the fact that people respond well to the Network style "angry man putting the world to rights" thing - he'll take a shot at a staggeringly easy target "Grenfell was bad", everyone applauds and then when they see another video about how they shouldn't ban racism in schools they're more receptive to the message because they agreed with his previous rant. He did a video on the homeless that broke with the "single shot to camera" gimmick and I'm convinced the original draft was "the homeless should learn personal responsibility", hastily recut when they realised how badly that would go down. He's a dickhead.
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Apr 6, 2019 13:09
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Bundy posted:What's the thread's view on Tom Walker/Jonathan Pie stuff? He's a centrist muppet who happily pals around with fash, and he should get in the fuckin sea. Bundy posted:Not necessarily for his politics but for his views on how labels and identity politics dominate discourse and steer/shut down debate now. That stuff is inherrently political in nature Bundy posted:After the LBC misstep I don't want to end up with a deluge of exactly why he's bad. Then why ask?
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Apr 6, 2019 13:10
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Beefeater1980 posted:E: A corollary to this is that the sensible thing to do if you ever get your hands on any money is to spend as much of it as possible on building up your passive income so you can upgrade via petty bourgeois to full FYGM bourgeois. I’d actually be really interested to see what a “use it or lose it” economy where you spend everything you earn each month and lose any surplus looks like. Has anyone ever actually tried that? The obvious downside to this model is that it would have the potential to massively accelerate consumption and incentivise disposable consumer culture, because suddenly everyone can afford things again. You need to take separate steps to discourage waste and encourage building things to last (ie you need to dismantle capitalism completely) otherwise this well-intentioned economic pressure release valve just accelerates all our ecological problems.
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Apr 6, 2019 13:12
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jonathan pie's writer is a writer for noted alt right/kinda libertarian right propaganda site spiked and both are genuinely awful people you should be very cautious about taking at face value
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Apr 6, 2019 13:14
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yeah jon pie can gently caress off like others have said, complaints about "idpol" are usually from shitheads outraged that they have to acknowledge or respect the existence of e.g. queer/trans people. it CAN get misused by dipshit liberals who are all "empower women by letting hillary clinton bomb yemen" or whatever, but it's very much not shutting down debate or free speech or whatever.
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Apr 6, 2019 13:16
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namesake posted:Bristol Transformed is loving amazing by the way. Sad to be missing this as I'm out of town. The wargaming protest thing later on sounds cool.
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Apr 6, 2019 13:23
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jaete posted:I don't follow this at all. There is no concept of "freehold" anywhere in the world except in the UK; as far as I understand, everywhere else it's just "property". Also, why would property instantly start losing value? Or do you mean it loses value because you can only buy a "leasehold" because "freehold" doesn't exist (in which case I would say, you cannot buy property full stop)? The latter. There is no absolute private land ownership in the People’s Republic of China, but private individuals can hold land on a 70 year lease. These won’t start to come up for a while yet, and I don’t recall offhand what will happen when they do. My best guess is a peppercorn rent to renew but in theory the government could ask you for the full amount. HK also has a bunch of 99 year leases and IIRC the holder has the right to renew those on a tiny ground rent (caveat that in HK, the “holder” for these purposes isn’t the tenant who actually lives there but usually a company owned by the tycoons).
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Apr 6, 2019 13:26
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Bundy posted:What's the thread's view on Tom Walker/Jonathan Pie stuff? Not necessarily for his politics but for his views on how labels and identity politics dominate discourse and steer/shut down debate now. After the LBC misstep I don't want to end up with a deluge of exactly why he's bad. Most people hide their balls, which makes them difficult to play and you then have to get a bit tactical in discovering which balls a man might have. Our best guess is that these guys have some very hairy balls. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Apr 6, 2019 |
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Apr 6, 2019 13:34
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