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Pigbuster posted:Good luck. It might be one of my favorite puzzles. So, uh... I kinda solved this puzzle in between writing the post and seeing this reply. And thankful as I am, now I'm kinda confused, because my solution doesn't track the hints at all.  What I did (obvious spoiler for a Depths puzzle): KEKE is BABA, then build IS KEKE IS MOVE vertically in the little gap, with BABA offset one step to the left above it; then just put one Baba next to it and the other left of YOU, then move right. Both Babas become Kekes while nothing is now you, but the lower Keke will move one step more and make BABA IS KEKE IS YOU; then I just walked over to the box. At no point was KEKE to the left of YOU.
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Apr 6, 2019 17:16
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This game is the #9 best-selling Switch eshop game for March.  Congrats to the goon creator for making a modern videogame icon of Baba.
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Apr 6, 2019 18:03
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Baba for smash.
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Apr 6, 2019 18:27
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:So, uh... I kinda solved this puzzle in between writing the post and seeing this reply. And thankful as I am, now I'm kinda confused, because my solution doesn't track the hints at all. ...that also works!  I really really like my elaborate-rear end solution though, mostly identical to your solution but moved to the left for, as I know now, no reason:  (Hempuli plz don't patch out)
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Apr 6, 2019 18:49
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Pigbuster posted:...that also works! That's beautiful.
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Apr 6, 2019 19:32
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Volcano 04- "Coronation" I clearly wasn't meant to just take all the text and push it over the lava to make Keke is win. I eventually went back and solved this one properly.
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Apr 6, 2019 22:33
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this game has a ton of amazingly good levels, but i think my single favorite was meta-15: The Box. it's just wonderfully devious
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Apr 6, 2019 22:51
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BABA is FINISHED. At least until the editor is put together, good gravy there's a lot of potential with this game. ...though it just hit me that by buying on Itch.io I don't have a Steam version for the workshop. 
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Apr 7, 2019 00:11
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Crushers? I think I need to get LEVEL is TEXT, but how isn’t apparent. I’m also not completely sure how to reach stage 4 of this area at this point though I’m assuming that’ll become apparent at some point.
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Apr 8, 2019 19:23
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Fedule posted:Crushers? Crushers is one of the harder levels. You should be able to tell that you need to get that WEAK out of the way so you can access the level text without destroying the level. This also lets you deactivate the skulls. Think about that a bit more though, what does that accomplish? Isn't there a skull blocking you from going down the corridor anyway? I don't know what other advice to give you since you haven't explained what you've done already. As for stage 4... just like, open the door?
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Apr 8, 2019 19:38
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McFrugal posted:Crushers is one of the harder levels. You should be able to tell that you need to get that WEAK out of the way so you can access the level text without destroying the level. This also lets you deactivate the skulls. The current working Theory is to push a bunch of stuff down that corridor and get something in front of Weak. So far I’ve been able to push one skull down the corridor via TEXT is SHIFT and turn the one next to it to face the wall, and turn the nearby belt into text, and get one of the is...es... out of the nook on the right. I’m able to push exactly as far as the crossroads so far. I’m wondering if by messing with the order I can squeeze an extra space by pushing the skull into some text...
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Apr 8, 2019 19:55
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Fedule posted:The current working Theory is to push a bunch of stuff down that corridor and get something in front of Weak. So far I’ve been able to push one skull down the corridor via TEXT is SHIFT and turn the one next to it to face the wall, and turn the nearby belt into text, and get one of the is...es... out of the nook on the right. I’m able to push exactly as far as the crossroads so far. I’m wondering if by messing with the order I can squeeze an extra space by pushing the skull into some text... That's not the right approach. Hint: You need Weak to be COMPLETELY out of the way.
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Apr 8, 2019 20:13
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The Switch now *actually* has the 1.0.3 patch! There was some hassle and I announced the update prematurely twice. Anyway, it's here, yay! Patch notes here, again: http://www.hempuli.com/blogblog/archives/2028
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Apr 8, 2019 22:27
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Hempuli posted:The Switch now *actually* has the 1.0.3 patch! There was some hassle and I announced the update prematurely twice. Anyway, it's here, yay! Patch notes here, again: http://www.hempuli.com/blogblog/archives/2028 Sweet! I have just solved Crushers and you are diabolical. I don’t like that there exist humans on this Earth who can create puzzles with that many layers of traps.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:49
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How the hell do you solve these puzzles without staring at them for 20+ minutes? I can't get any farther because I can't get enough of the puffballs to open up more levels.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:53
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Inco posted:How the hell do you solve these puzzles without staring at them for 20+ minutes? I can't get any farther because I can't get enough of the puffballs to open up more levels. Can't speak for anyone else but that's exactly how I solve these puzzles.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:54
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Mostly unrelated but I love the moments when you get impossibly stuck on one puzzle for five hours and then finally solve it and then blaze through the next five puzzles in a couple minutes each.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:15
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I have never overthought a puzzle as much as *presumably late game* ???-3, Whoops. For some reason I assumed this was one of those puzzles where I was meant to discover some surprising property of "weak" so I tried lots and lots of unnecessary stuff before inputting the correct answer that really should have been super obvious.
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Apr 9, 2019 04:00
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I like Pillarwork. There are two or three different solutions that *almost* work that I ran into before finding the right way to do it. Secure Cottage was removed though... maybe it's being moved to some DLC? McFrugal fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Apr 9, 2019 |
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Apr 9, 2019 04:21
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Fedule posted:Mostly unrelated but I love the moments when you get impossibly stuck on one puzzle for five hours and then finally solve it and then blaze through the next five puzzles in a couple minutes each. The entirety of the Depths area blazed by for me, and it was fun the whole time. That area rules.
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Apr 9, 2019 05:23
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 http://nightlustrous.tumblr.com/post/183968929968/i-spent-like-half-an-hour-on-this-so-here Also I am extremely bad at this game. I was much easier to figure out the solutions by mentally playing along with a streamer. I always figure out the idea behind the solution and have issues implementing it.
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Apr 9, 2019 06:28
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Aw I still can't get meta and center to have their flowers
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Apr 9, 2019 15:37
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I looked up the solution for Mean Fence and I still don't understand how that worked.
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Apr 9, 2019 15:57
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Facing is checked after movement.
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Apr 9, 2019 16:09
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So which goon made Baba? It's a good game and I like it.
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Apr 9, 2019 16:20
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Brosnan posted:So which goon made Baba? It's a good game and I like it.
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Apr 9, 2019 16:34
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Qylvaran posted:Facing is checked after movement. Not gonna lie I was hoping for a secret room somewhere that’s full of nothing but setups of “GAME RULE FACING is 2ND” and “GAME RULE MOVE is 1ST” to have an explanation for all of these hard coded mechanics. Even better: let the player modify them. 
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Apr 9, 2019 19:09
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My brain is hurt. Baba is good. Just unlocked three flowers. I'm sure this isn't even close to how insane it will get.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:30
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???-11, Security Check (post solution musings) I like levels like this that are fairly minimal in what they offer and there's a trick to it that you have to see through. For some reason I was hung up for awhile on trying to engineer a way to make NOT KEKE IS NOT STOP before accepting I couldn't do it, at which pointed I realized there was no good reason I couldn't just make Keke go away entirely. The previous levels had even prepped me for that thinking I just got what I had coming for failing to really take in the rules this time (I think for some reason I imagined a "Keke is Keke" that wasn't there). The next level being called "The Ultimate Maze" made me decide now is a good time for a break.
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Apr 9, 2019 21:56
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Nep-Nep posted:???-11, Security Check (post solution musings) re: the last line of text: that level is actually pretty neat and unique
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Apr 10, 2019 00:02
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President Ark posted:re: the last line of text: that level is actually pretty neat and unique I had a lot of fun solving it. Not certain yet if I can do anything clever with Level so I just made a "come look at it again later" note.
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Apr 10, 2019 00:16
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Hempuli, who just posted the recent patch update on this page. My bad. Hi Hempuli, thanks for making a good game!
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Apr 10, 2019 01:12
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Nep-Nep posted:I had a lot of fun solving it. Not certain yet if I can do anything clever with Level so I just made a "come look at it again later" note. pretty sure the answer to this is no, since you can't interact with the text yourself without ceasing to be LONELY and thus YOU, and there's nothing to push close enough to matter
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Apr 10, 2019 01:15
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President Ark posted:pretty sure the answer to this is no, since you can't interact with the text yourself without ceasing to be LONELY and thus YOU, and there's nothing to push close enough to matter That's what I figured at a glance but couldn't rule out that I was just failing to think of something creative.
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Apr 10, 2019 01:18
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I've tried to restrain myself from having puzzles require too much understanding of the order of operations; in fact, the latest Steam update replaced a level that kinda did that with a new one (Pillarwork) which doesn't. When designing puzzles it's very easy to assume that stuff like "You moves first" is apparent where in fact the player has no reason to assume things to be that way. I was a bit scared of Mean Fence feeling too arbitrary, but the trick is cute and the level is simple enough that it didn't feel too bad. An anecdote: when implementing the word "Shift" (makes on object work like a conveyor belt), I realized that since while Shifting moves on object, kinda like how Push does, the object being Shifted isn't the object that actually has the rule "X Is Shift"; therefore it'd kinda make sense that if the object being Shifted doesn't have any rules applied to itself, it wouldn't have to respect any rules of solidity etc. that are taken into account when something is, say, Pushed. As a result of this train of thought I made a level where you must move an object onto a conveyor belt, then shut its rules off to get it to move inside a wall. It was technically plausible that things'd work this way, but testers pointed out several well-reasoned arguments as to why doing this would've been not good but indeed very bad, and I dropped the idea. tl,dr; It's easy to get too excited about hypothetical underlying logic quirks of an engine. Brosnan posted:My bad. Hi Hempuli, thanks for making a good game! Thanks a lot!  And of course thanks to everyone else here as well!!
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Apr 10, 2019 01:59
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Bought this game, it's really good! Thanks for making it. Interesting and fun puzzle mechanics.
Asimov fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 05:13
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There are some puzzles i love a lot but unless you are aware how the game might internally process the order of rule execution and evaluation i can imagine them being quite frustrating to anticipate. For example in Automaton the crux seems to be that while the start of a move is part of the current turn's ruleset, the "arrival" on a square doesn't logically happen as part of the same move with the ruleset in effect at the start, but that the ruleset can change in some order at some point during its "duration".  Pushing up works to get the box on the same location as the ice because the logical order of events is: 1. At the beginning of the "turn" you are box and baba, so both initiate the move. 2. Baba disconnects the "Box" word from the "Is Group" rule (at the first frame of the upward motion) 3. The Box "arrives" on the ice (but the rules don't trigger until the last frame of the upward animation) If 2 and 3 happen the other way around, "simultaneously" or have no (visible) deterministic order then the box might or might not get "Defeat"ed before the "Is Group" rule is disconnected. These mechanical/turn semantic details feel a bit obscure and also essential (?) to more solutions so i'm wondering if emphasizing a bit more through introductory levels might help. Maybe there was and it just flew past me until i'm 100+ solved puzzles in? Or maybe i just found an overdesigned solution and missed a much easier, less specific one. Probably wouldn't be the first time either. v  v
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Apr 10, 2019 08:38
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personally i think "intuition" is kind of a false goal to reach for in puzzle games, since figuring out obscure, but logical interactions between mechanics is one of the central points of fun in playing them. more specifically, I think the fact that the level (in your example, Automation) is possible to beat is an endorsement of whatever details you can learn about the game's engine that let you reach the victory line. then again i like live and breathe puzzles so i may not be a perfect mark for determining the proper difficulty curve of games like this
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Apr 10, 2019 10:13
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I'd prefer this game to be a deterministic chessboard that i can (after a while) "read out" in advance without moving a single piece, and not a black box to reverse engineer the internal parser's specific algorithm. And i've had plenty of fun debugging/reversing raw binaries, which i'm not sure holds for the average steam customer. But maybe that's just me. The game's more infamous puzzles mostly seem to live in the edge cases of these specific interactions tho. I'm not faulting it for that (in fact stuff like "unstoppable object" vs "immovable obstacle" is fascinating), but sometimes a bit more lead-in to the fact that they even exist would be appreciated (and i'd argue, not detract from the complexity of the puzzles). Or maybe it's just a visualization problem where some things might benefit from "Into the Breach" style "upcoming order" indicators? Anyway, that's not particularly constructive criticism, more of a thing that i started noticing more and more the further i got. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 10:24
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I don't think needing to know how things are processed in a single step of the game is ever required to finish a puzzle, and when people are generally talking about 'esoteric information' it's of stuff you might not realize is a thing you can do (like in Skull House or Prison) and nothing of that sort. Here's a solution to the level you're talking about that doesn't use any of that information: https://youtu.be/eN1ybxcnxy8 flatluigi fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 10:38
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