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Unkempt posted:OK, same question but substitute 'TV news' for 'press'. I still think there's a lot of people at the BBC/Sky/etc. who respect the broadcasting regulations. People like Keunssberg are intensely (and unfairly) sceptical of any left-wing policies because they're natural Tories, but I don't think they see themselves as anything but impartial. Like Chomsky said of Marr, they aren't intentionally seeking to influence people to vote Tory, they just wouldn't have the positions they have if they hadn't completely accepted the establishment line about what is sensible politics. So while Labour will always struggle to get fair questions and reasonable responses from interviewers, I do think they can stick to something as simple as giving both parties equivalent time. And Labour's policies are so self-evidently good and popular that time and coverage is virtually all they need to win people over. EDIT exmarx posted:https://twitter.com/David_Rudnick/status/1114823259810357249 First scenes emerge from broadcasting house following military coup against PM Corbyn.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:31
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The effect is't huge, but it's big enough. Even things like debates, which I hate as a concept, are enough for people to see sensible points of view presented sensibly, rather than just hear secondhand ranting against them.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:33
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Bundy posted:I've enjoyed a lot of this guy's commentary Stevebuscemiskateboard.png
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Apr 7, 2019 12:33
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jabby posted:I still think there's a lot of people at the BBC/Sky/etc. who respect the broadcasting regulations. People like Keunssberg are intensely (and unfairly) sceptical of any left-wing policies because they're natural Tories, but I don't think they see themselves as anything but impartial. Like Chomsky said of Marr, they aren't intentionally seeking to influence people to vote Tory, they just wouldn't have the positions they have if they hadn't completely accepted the establishment line about what is sensible politics. LK has been better on brexit and generally of late than I would have imagined
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Apr 7, 2019 12:34
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jabby posted:So while Labour will always struggle to get fair questions and reasonable responses from interviewers, I do think they can stick to something as simple as giving both parties equivalent time. And Labour's policies are so self-evidently good and popular that time and coverage is virtually all they need to win people over.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:36
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Necrothatcher posted:I mean, it's a bit tonally odd but the guy seems to be sincerely and unreservedly condemning the paras who shot at the Corbyn target so... what's the problem? 
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Apr 7, 2019 12:38
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TACD posted:But that time is never spent discussing policy either because they know Tory policies are psychotic or they literally believe policy doesn’t matter. The time is spent asking Tories what makes them so smart and sensible and asking Labour why they hate Jews so much. Even stuff like Party POlitical Broadcasts make a difference. It was like night and day even, when the Labour leadership contest was on - because even though the coverage was for poo poo, it was personal coverage of Labour politicians being able to cover policy issues. It makes a difference.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:38
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https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1114852909605380103 https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1114853551048724481 https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1114854035759218691 https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1114854650686115840 The closer we get to Corbyn in No 10 the more honest and screeching the Daily Mail becomes.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:38
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TACD posted:But that time is never spent discussing policy either because they know Tory policies are psychotic or they literally believe policy doesn’t matter. The time is spent asking Tories what makes them so smart and sensible and asking Labour why they hate Jews so much. Election time includes the unchallenged ads and dogpiling corbyn when people are actually aware of his policies hasn't worked before Nobody thinks the broadcast media represents them, because the broadcast media do not actually represent anyone. They have no credibility, it just looks like propaganda, and then people go to social media where the Left are just much, much better at the game.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:39
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"if only people heard our policies, they would be convinced" is an ideological deathtrap
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Apr 7, 2019 12:39
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ronya posted:"if only people heard our policies, they would be convinced" is an ideological deathtrap 2017 happened you weird PPE bollock Edit: lol nice edit trying to get away from what you really mean.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:40
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ronya posted:"if only people heard our policies, they would be convinced" is an ideological deathtrap thanks ronya from 2016 good heads up
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Apr 7, 2019 12:40
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TACD posted:But that time is never spent discussing policy either because they know Tory policies are psychotic or they literally believe policy doesn’t matter. The time is spent asking Tories what makes them so smart and sensible and asking Labour why they hate Jews so much. A certain amount of time is just spent hearing Corbyn and other Labour figures speak. Then there's time spent explaining policy proposals. For an electorate that currently gets the vast majority of political news second-hand, it makes a big difference. Remember that study showing that in normal times Corbyn himself is hardly ever quoted or shown, and quite often his view is simply lied about or misrepresented? Labour did a really good job at the last election of releasing new policies virtually every day. The broadcasters were virtually obliged to cover policy announcements, and so it sucked oxygen away from dead-ends like the IRA and just generally how poo poo Labour were. ronya posted:"if only people heard our policies, they would be convinced" is an ideological deathtrap Someone else who doesn't believe in hindsight I see.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:46
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Bundy posted:I've enjoyed a lot of this guy's commentary  Back on topic, thanks all for the advice - we ended up watching some Comedy Vehicle on netflix until she went to bed and that seemed to help. Specific information about how she feels is hard to come by because she's also autistic and really struggles to talk about her feelings but at least I've got a few things to suggest now.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:48
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Katt posted:Crap I missed the landlord follow up thread. I even had some posts written out and ready.  adding some uk perspective on the landlord situation has been interesting. little did i know social housing doesn't exist and private landlords are the best model to follow
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Apr 7, 2019 12:50
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due reminder that the 2017 manifesto featured Corbyn running to right of Ed Miliband on the issued that mattered most to voters - immigration and austerity. the manifesto kept the benefit freeze and almost all of the cuts at the very least a totally credulous "we
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Apr 7, 2019 12:51
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ronya posted:at the very least a totally credulous "we sure We probably won't do twice as well as pre-election polls, again. We're already winning, but 80% does seem a stretch.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:53
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Femi is peak Peoples Vote and that's the whole problem with the campaign - he's trapped between arguing for Remain while also claiming it's impossible for Leavers to get what they want or that they want what is happening now so there's got to be another vote. It's a confused narrative at best and pretty blatant what they actually want to happen.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:54
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ronya posted:"if only people heard our policies, they would be convinced" is an ideological deathtrap polling bears out the notion of a lot of corbynite policies as being quite popular, it's not an enormous leap from there to 'if allowed to present policy instead of brexit/antisemitism non-stop, labour popular'
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Apr 7, 2019 12:54
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ronya posted:due reminder that the 2017 manifesto featured Corbyn running to right of Ed Miliband on immigration and austerity it's strange that corbyn has triangulated on immigration in the exact kind of milquetoast centrist way that blair would once have been proud to do, and corbyn would have been proud to criticise him for it is very obvious that he's doing it because he think there's a larger victory at hand - a full socialist government - but man oh man, pragmatism-over-principles isn't a good look for him e: or maybe he's doing it because as much as we don't like to talk about it round here, labour protectionism is in fact good for the working class, idk coffeetable fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 12:55
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ronya posted:due reminder that the 2017 manifesto featured Corbyn running to right of Ed Miliband on the issued that mattered most to voters - immigration and austerity. the manifesto kept the benefit freeze and almost all of the cuts lol shut the gently caress up you divorced from reality tosser. Ed Miliband wrote Controls on Immigration on mugs and Stone Henge and everyone in Labour prior to Corbyn taking charge was tacitly accepting that Austerity was necessary.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:56
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ronya posted:due reminder that the 2017 manifesto featured Corbyn running to right of Ed Miliband on the issued that mattered most to voters - immigration and austerity. the manifesto kept the benefit freeze and almost all of the cuts Labour can rightly be criticised for failing to abolish the benefits freeze in the last manifesto. However I'm not sure promising £1 trillion of new investment and railing against the Tories under-spending counts as 'to the right of Miliband on austerity'.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:57
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the 2017 manifesto was economically relatively conservative due to that objectively ridiculous costing business, but the rhetoric and messaging was much clearer and more radical/uncompromising that ed's stuff, not sure i buy the 'running to the right' narrative
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Apr 7, 2019 12:57
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to be clear, the costings were excellent politics because the british public is very ill-informed, but one does hope that labour doesn't actually think the way they presented that stuff
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Apr 7, 2019 12:59
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The 2017 manifesto didn't explicitly say "we'll increase benefits" or "We'll reverse austerity cuts" or "we'll open immigration" it's true. But it also didn't commit to not doing those things, and John mcdonnell sitting in the treasury going "we can't increase school funding, the deficit is more important" strikes me and most everyone as pretty unlikely.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:00
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Actually guys, thinking people hearing you message will help you is actually ideology. That's why the right wing famously don't try to control every outlet of thought and messaging on the loving planet.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:00
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V. Illych L. posted:to be clear, the costings were excellent politics because the british public is very ill-informed, but one does hope that labour doesn't actually think the way they presented that stuff Yeah it was a purely theatrical move but a really shrewd one, and until they're in power they should repeat the trick
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Apr 7, 2019 13:00
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It's conflating respecting the decision to leave the EU and the legal changes that means about immigration with a geniune hostility to immigration. Labour continues to dance around the issue in a bad way but it is definitely different from Controls on Immigration.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:01
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1114852909605380103 Gold being a beacon of stable investment. 
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Apr 7, 2019 13:01
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coffeetable posted:it's strange that corbyn has triangulated on immigration in the exact kind of milquetoast centrist way that blair would once have been proud to do, and corbyn would have been proud to criticise him for It's crushingly depressing. Literally the whole point of voting Corbyn was to have someone saying the morally correct things that weren't even getting discussed very much in public, be it on welfare or the economy or foreign affairs. I think very few people in 2015 actually held out much hope for him winning a general election, it was about moving that dang Overton Window. And while that's happened somewhat on some issues, the giving up and accepting the standard lovely xenophobic immigration policy must be killing him because he must know it's loving rotten. That said, accusing the manifesto of being right of Miliband on the economy is loving drivel.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:01
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V. Illych L. posted:to be clear, the costings were excellent politics because the british public is very ill-informed, but one does hope that labour doesn't actually think the way they presented that stuff the Confederation of British Industry are now explicitly in favour of the party of "lets nationalise poo poo and remind banks how money actually works" so it'll be fun and educational the tories could always try and get small business backing but their policies sent them all to bankruptcy lol
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Apr 7, 2019 13:02
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goddamnedtwisto posted:You need a license for anything with more than 1 KW of motive force. Also you don't want an electric bike that looks like a Ducati because the noise is one of the integral parts of it. Get one that looks like a TIE fighter so the noise matches. What’s the best tron bike on the market then I like my EV car and bikes don’t sit in lovely traffic
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Apr 7, 2019 13:03
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namesake posted:It's conflating respecting the decision to leave the EU and the legal changes that means about immigration with a geniune hostility to immigration. Labour continues to dance around the issue in a bad way but it is definitely different from Controls on Immigration. uhh https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1113421567193690113
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Apr 7, 2019 13:03
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jabby posted:First scenes emerge from broadcasting house following military coup against PM Corbyn. This is loving wild to the point of parody. Something about the way yer man speaks, hard to accept it's a real thing. Being probably more generous than the rhetoric deserves, "fair management of immigration" as a statement actually leaves a fair bit of leeway. Fair management is clearly a phrase that can mean anything to anyone, from not letting any poor foreigners in to scrap the borders because borders are inherently unfair, that puts it a level above Controls On Immigration which is fair way less ambiguous. That said, still uncomfortable with it precisely for that reason. Make the case strong, moral case for why immigration controls are loving racist trash, not this mealymouthed poo poo. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 13:03
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https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1114859077660749826 https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1114859490980106240 https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1114859766017351680 Another source saying talks are going in the direction Peston indicated the other day. My thoughts are basically the same: a) May going for a customs union will break her party, regardless of what she calls it. Labour will also hopefully spam 'this is a customs union' after the deal is agreed to avoid any attempt to spin it as them climbing down. b) Putting a second referendum to a final vote in parliament is a decent compromise. Corbyn will take neverending amounts of flak from some in Labour and from the smaller parties over backing a deal that doesn't include one by default, but to the public at large he benefits more from being seen to compromise than from being dogmatic.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:04
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Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. A statement of fact about leaving the EU and then some weaselwords afterwards.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:08
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jabby posted:Labour can rightly be criticised for failing to abolish the benefits freeze in the last manifesto. Labour promised to end the bedroom tax, raise PIP, raise HB for the under 21s, and create a package of welfare reforms that McDonnell said would make the freeze irrelevant and then Corbyn said would mean the freeze was ended, they just wanted a package reform rather than to do a change here or there. Ronya is particularly disingenuous on this subject for some reason.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:09
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You can choose to read that as racist, or you can choose to read that as "more migrants, but mostly from commonwealth nations". Which is Dianne Abbot going to choose? Ronya's most fair criticism of Labour to date is that only Corbyn is allowed to do this, and his succession will be a problem there. It's not a particularily strong criticism of the first grand compromise of the centre and left since ww2, but it's fair, and I am already looking forward to being done with mealy mouthed shite. Oh dear me posted:Labour promised to end the bedroom tax, raise PIP, raise HB for the under 21s, and create a package of welfare reforms that McDonnell said would make the freeze irrelevant and then Corbyn said would mean the freeze was ended, they just wanted a package reform rather than to do a change here or there. Ronya is particularly disingenuous on this subject for some reason. McDonnell wants UBI but I can't remember if it was a manifesto commitment
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Apr 7, 2019 13:10
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Y'all are being wild hard on Little Big Army Man. I am pretty sure he intends this to be the start of a sweet TV advertising career in his retirement 
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Apr 7, 2019 13:10
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Total Meatlove posted:What’s the best tron bike on the market then I like my EV car and bikes don’t sit in lovely traffic There's a case to be made for EVs in urban environments but electric bikes have gimmick status at best currently. The batteries are just too heavy to get a comparable feeling to a similar classed gas powered bike. If anything, an electric scooter would be more like it because they don't have any dynamics aspirations aniways. BMW makes one currently.
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