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Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
I hope when they remove TP they keep Spire's effect the same.

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homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

Let's go back to just before HW when all we had to go on AST was a really sketchy translation of a live letter and everyone thought one of the cards would just be actively detrimental to whoever you gave it to.

Kaubocks
Apr 13, 2011

Countblanc posted:

i would be surprised if much, if any, of that rework care goes into the leveling experience. classes have pretty much universally been made worse to level every time there's a shakeup

the current implementation is so bad that it has to get better even just by random chance

The Grimace
Sep 18, 2005

Are you a BigMac of imbeciles!?

Phone posted:

A "Hello, World!" program generally is a computer program that outputs or displays the message "Hello, World!". Because it is very simple in most programming languages, it is often used to illustrate the basic syntax of a programming language and is often the first program that those learning to code write.

even if this may not be what the original poster intended as an answer, this is really loving cool. thanks for this explanation.

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST
Today I got Fake Anime Married. Never thought I would and definitely never expected that turn out. I remember when I finally caught up in HW, I hit a serious lull. I had a time where I was just logging on to run a roulette or two and then logging out. I unsubbed at some point. The problem was that even though I was in DGKK and playing an MMO, I didn't have any friends. So when Stormblood came out, I made it a point to change that.







Mission accomplished. Thanks to everybody who came!

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Had a dilemma come up earlier trying to tank Orbonne semi-blind earlier in 375 gear: I kept getting passed by a 400 SAM unless I stayed permanently in Grit (because the other, presumably better geared, tanks--including the one in the party of the SAM in question--couldn't be arsed to provoke :mad:). If you're not making GBS threads out enough enmity for it to not matter, what's the best way to hold on as DRK: get into and out of Grit, Power Slashes, or even PSes with Dark Arts?

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
Open with a DA Plunge and get 1 or two DA'd Power Slashes in before turning off Grit to build a lead. Always DA your Plunge (every 30 seconds) to keep your lead. If the issue is actually that the i400 SAM isn't popping diversion or merciful eyes, you can let him tank for a hot second and take care of the problem that way.

Power Slash posted:

Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity
Combo Action: Spinning Slash
Combo Potency: 300
Dark Arts Potency: 240
Dark Arts Combo Potency: 440
Dark Arts Combo Effect: Increased enmity
Dark Arts fades upon execution.

Phone fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Apr 7, 2019

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
You have to assume:

Both other tanks are incapable and/or asleep
DPS will never use threat tools on purpose


Gonna have to suck it on and stay in Grit. A SAM or BLM with 25 ilvls on you is going to overtake you otherwise. Once you open with a DA power slash or 2 you probably have enough of a lead to just do your Souleater combos. It's easier when big threat is in your party, but you can't really gauge what they're doing in other parties.

Or just let the SAM die.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
At some point, you either gotta let them die so that they use their god-given Diversion and/or Third Eye, or say in chat that you need someone else to tank.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

homeless snail posted:

Let's go back to just before HW when all we had to go on AST was a really sketchy translation of a live letter and everyone thought one of the cards would just be actively detrimental to whoever you gave it to.

...how did they think that would work?

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Dr Pepper posted:

...how did they think that would work?

iirc it was a weird translation for Bole that made it sound like the player received 10% extra damage, so it was basically a dud card that you had to throw on someone who wasnt going to be taking damage in the next however many seconds

again though it wasnt actually correct in the first place

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
In general it's an ok idea to stay in tank stance for current 24 mans if you're main tanking since usually the tank busters are quite tank-busty. Especially when you're not far off from minimum ilvl.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Phone posted:

Open with a DA Plunge and get 1 or two DA'd Power Slashes in before turning off Grit to build a lead. Always DA your Plunge (every 30 seconds) to keep your lead. If the issue is actually that the i400 SAM isn't popping diversion or merciful eyes, you can let him tank for a hot second and take care of the problem that way.

TIL plunge has a DA effect

guess I should read these tooltips since 4.1 huh :doh:

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007

Ciaphas posted:

guess I should read these tooltips since 4.1 huh :doh:

tooltips in this game are worthless tbh. one of the classes didn't even have their abilities translated from the original japanese, leaving players to try to decipher whatever things like "hissatsu: guren" mean

Kaubocks
Apr 13, 2011

the basic bitch ez mode threat opener for dark knight is dark arts, unmend, plunge, dark arts power slash combo twice. from there you can feel free to drop grit and get your dps on. always dark arts plunge on cooldown. always dark arts carve and spit on cooldown. don’t be afraid to dark arts more power slashes for comfort if the fights going on long enough.

if it still takes you considerable effort to stay ahead on threat at that point you should probably just stay in grit for the fight tbh

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

Countblanc posted:

iirc it was a weird translation for Bole that made it sound like the player received 10% extra damage, so it was basically a dud card that you had to throw on someone who wasnt going to be taking damage in the next however many seconds

again though it wasnt actually correct in the first place
I wish I had a card that hosed people over

isk
Oct 3, 2007

You don't want me owing you

Wangsbig posted:

tooltips in this game are worthless tbh. one of the classes didn't even have their abilities translated from the original japanese, leaving players to try to decipher whatever things like "hissatsu: guren" mean

SAM is too pure for filthy gaijin

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist

homeless snail posted:

I wish I had a card that hosed people over

Rescue. :unsmigghh:

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

isk posted:

SAM is too pure for filthy gaijin

People who complain about sam skill names are weak. I can only assume they click their skills too.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


SwissArmyDruid posted:

At some point, you either gotta let them die so that they use their god-given Diversion and/or Third Eye, or say in chat that you need someone else to tank.

Point of order: I ran Orbonne today as a 400 sam and even with using Diversion on CD I managed to rip hate away on Cid 3/4 of the way through the fight and rode pretty high on the first two bosses. Sometimes the tanks are just real bad.

Still not as bad as when MT goes down during Ultima phase 2 and I am suddenly tanking. Do you understand just how much hate I'm able to dump using Merciful Eye during Ultimate Illusion? How are all 23 of you so goddamn terrible at this game that I overtook you again? :orks:

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Kwyndig posted:

Cards are needlessly complicated since there's only one universally good card.

It's more that they created a complex, versatile card system without completely realizing the limitations of the battle system at the time. Past a certain point, additional mitigation/resource regen becomes useless, and tightly scripted encounters means that you're never creatively thinking about if you can use card X in situation Y; you know in advance what the optimal card is, and you'll draw forever until you get it. The only point of real decision-making is whether you want to risk Redraw if you've got Spear and are trying to get a Balance.

There's absolutely ways they can improve the card system, but it'd require a large shift in power away from cards and back towards the class as a whole, and that would require a a comprehensive reform of their healing paradigm to ensure that you actually want to take an AST along for reasons other than Balance. I'm hopeful we'll get something in May, since the overall flow of the class is otherwise fantastic.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

homeless snail posted:

I wish I had a card that hosed people over

If I found a genie in a lamp one of my wishes would be to be the only player in FF14 with the ability to cast debuffs on other friendly players.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

Thundarr posted:

Point of order: I ran Orbonne today as a 400 sam and even with using Diversion on CD I managed to rip hate away on Cid 3/4 of the way through the fight and rode pretty high on the first two bosses. Sometimes the tanks are just real bad.

Still not as bad as when MT goes down during Ultima phase 2 and I am suddenly tanking. Do you understand just how much hate I'm able to dump using Merciful Eye during Ultimate Illusion? How are all 23 of you so goddamn terrible at this game that I overtook you again? :orks:

Then clearly, you fall under the second category.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Thundarr posted:

Point of order: I ran Orbonne today as a 400 sam and even with using Diversion on CD I managed to rip hate away on Cid 3/4 of the way through the fight and rode pretty high on the first two bosses. Sometimes the tanks are just real bad.

On Cid it doesn't matter and if the tank has the ilvl/healers to survive a fully-debuffed Crush Helm they can sit in DPS stance nearly the entire fight (switching for the add phase.)

First boss there's no excuse, second boss can be weird because of Cleansing Strike.

Aithon
Jan 3, 2014

Every puzzle has an answer.

Ytlaya posted:

If I found a genie in a lamp one of my wishes would be to be the only player in FF14 with the ability to cast debuffs on other friendly players.

Debuffs, nothing. Imagine friend-target Fluid Aura. :getin:

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Aithon posted:

Debuffs, nothing. Imagine friend-target Fluid Aura. :getin:

I mean we already have Rescue, that's almost as good.

Mr. Trampoline
May 16, 2010

Ytlaya posted:

If I found a genie in a lamp one of my wishes would be to be the only player in FF14 with the ability to cast debuffs on other friendly players.
Ninja's Shadewalker can be a fun debuff when you don't use it on a tank :ssh:

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Wangsbig posted:

tooltips in this game are worthless tbh. one of the classes didn't even have their abilities translated from the original japanese, leaving players to try to decipher whatever things like "hissatsu: guren" mean

If I recall correctly, samurai skills are in phonetic English if you're a Japanese language player.

Kanfy
Jan 9, 2012

Just gotta keep walking down that road.

Lizard Wizard posted:

If I recall correctly, samurai skills are in phonetic English if you're a Japanese language player.

I'm relatively sure it's the exact opposite and most if not all Samurai skills are written in Japanese kanji, while in general many skills in video games including in Final Fantasy are taken from English. Fire = Faia, Water = Wōta, Thunder = Sandā, etc.

Emalde
May 3, 2007

Just a cage of bones, there's nothing inside.

Countblanc posted:

iirc it was a weird translation for Bole that made it sound like the player received 10% extra damage, so it was basically a dud card that you had to throw on someone who wasnt going to be taking damage in the next however many seconds

again though it wasnt actually correct in the first place

See also: When some folks thought that Sole Survivor was essentially a callout button you casted on your party. "I think this dork is about to die so let me get some regen off of him, thanks"

Emalde fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Apr 7, 2019

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Kanfy posted:

I'm relatively sure it's the exact opposite and most if not all Samurai skills are written in Japanese kanji, while in general many skills in video games including in Final Fantasy are taken from English. Fire = Faia, Water = Wōta, Thunder = Sandā, etc.

Yeah, just checked the Japanese website, samurai skills are all in kanji.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
Also, looking through the skills, Monks are also all in kanji (except Mantra), Scholars have really long kanji skill names that got turned into Latin I guess, and Black mages have Faira and Faiga and Faija and that's really funny to me.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Vermain posted:

It's more that they created a complex, versatile card system without completely realizing the limitations of the battle system at the time. Past a certain point, additional mitigation/resource regen becomes useless, and tightly scripted encounters means that you're never creatively thinking about if you can use card X in situation Y; you know in advance what the optimal card is, and you'll draw forever until you get it. The only point of real decision-making is whether you want to risk Redraw if you've got Spear and are trying to get a Balance.

There's absolutely ways they can improve the card system, but it'd require a large shift in power away from cards and back towards the class as a whole, and that would require a a comprehensive reform of their healing paradigm to ensure that you actually want to take an AST along for reasons other than Balance. I'm hopeful we'll get something in May, since the overall flow of the class is otherwise fantastic.

Tbh the easiest "fix" for cards is to remove balance and spear entirely.

HackensackBackpack
Aug 20, 2007

Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

Countblanc posted:

Tbh the easiest "fix" for cards is to remove balance and spear entirely.

They should introduce "land" cards that have "colours" that, when used in a certain combination, "summon" things.

And the AST quests involve you "gathering" them to learn their "magic."

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Leofish posted:

They should introduce "land" cards that have "colours" that, when used in a certain combination, "summon" things.

And the AST quests involve you "gathering" them to learn their "magic."

Nah they should instead reference an actually good card game and introduce XZY's AST buffs. AST's are all technically tuners already so we gotta move on. Get 2 of a specific buff in your table XYZ them for a super buff. Turn Double Spire into an instant HP/MP heal for the party

x1o
Aug 5, 2005

My focus is UNPARALLELED!
I'm almost free from this game (until Shadowbringers)



Leveled all jobs, completed every sidequest (except big fishing, I'll save that for SB2), got all the sightseeing spots, cleared Eureka & BA.

Only thing left uncomplete is my quest to get all the "Craft X unique recipes" achivements, but I'm on track to finish that in a couple of weeks.

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007

TheHeadSage posted:

I'm almost free from this game (until Shadowbringers)



Leveled all jobs, completed every sidequest (except big fishing, I'll save that for SB2), got all the sightseeing spots, cleared Eureka & BA.

Only thing left uncomplete is my quest to get all the "Craft X unique recipes" achivements, but I'm on track to finish that in a couple of weeks.

:captainpop:

Red Alert 2 Yuris Revenge
May 8, 2006

"My brain is amazing! It's full of wrinkles, and... Uh... Wait... What am I trying to say?"
I'm gonna hit the 'all battle classes maxed' milestone in the next 2-3 weeks probably, and i'm not sure what I'm gonna do after that.

dare i...craft?

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Countblanc posted:

Tbh the easiest "fix" for cards is to remove balance and spear entirely.

I was thinking the same thing last night. If you wanted to do away with DPS-boosting cards entirely, you could make Arrow into a short duration speed boost, like an in-combat Peloton. The biggest issue is that they went hog wild on gameplay-story integration with the card system, so it's effectively impossible to excise any cards from the current selection without it feeling bizarre.

Probably the simplest thing to do is to compress the effects down into three reasonably strong non-DPS utility effects (resource regen, speed boost, damage reduction) and have two cards share one effect for each of the utility effects. If you want to preserve the damage boost of Balance as a part of the class, you could turn it into a reasonably long cooldown effect that consumes your Draw and Spread or whatever. Again, this is all contingent on them actually changing around the healing paradigm so that AST doesn't get instantly screwed by the loss of the one compelling reason to take them along over WHM.

Vermain fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Apr 7, 2019

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Martman
Nov 20, 2006

TheHeadSage posted:

I'm almost free from this game (until Shadowbringers)



Leveled all jobs, completed every sidequest (except big fishing, I'll save that for SB2), got all the sightseeing spots, cleared Eureka & BA.

Only thing left uncomplete is my quest to get all the "Craft X unique recipes" achivements, but I'm on track to finish that in a couple of weeks.
I'm in a very similar boat! Main thing I'm missing is the SB doggos, and the quest for getting them all.

But... do you have all the TT cards, orchestrion rolls, perfect racing chocobo, etc?? :getin:

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