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Oh dear me posted:Labour promised to end the bedroom tax, raise PIP, raise HB for the under 21s, and create a package of welfare reforms that McDonnell said would make the freeze irrelevant and then Corbyn said would mean the freeze was ended, they just wanted a package reform rather than to do a change here or there. Ronya is particularly disingenuous on this subject for some reason. They promised a huge amount of policies to reduce poverty, and understandably they focused on eye-catching changes rather than the extremely expensive but boring policy of 'allow benefits to increase with or above inflation again'. I think in power they probably would have ended the benefit freeze, but they were hamstrung by their insistence on costing their policies. They definitely equivocated on it when ideally they should have been saying it makes total sense to increase benefits, but personally I'm willing to forgive.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:13
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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1114859077660749826 It very much depends on what the options in the ref are. Labour getting their joint deal vs. remain in a 2nd ref would be a political masterstroke, tbqh.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:17
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I hope that the magic money trees that May has been offering will blunt the need to insist that every thing is costed next time around.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:17
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namesake posted:I hope that the magic money trees that May has been offering will blunt the need to insist that every thing is costed next time around. you know it won't so Labour should just announce a £billion investment into NI for the hell of it
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Apr 7, 2019 13:20
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Which is entirely consistent with the 2017 manifesto. quote:Labour offers fair rules and reasonable management of migration. In trade negotiations our priorities favour growth, jobs and prosperity. We make no apologies for putting these aims before bogus immigration targets. Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union. Britain’s immigration system will change, but Labour will not scapegoat migrants nor blame them for economic failures. The subtext is that net immigration will decrease under Labour, but in an organic way not a "no more of your sort" way.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:24
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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forkboy84 posted:It's crushingly depressing. Literally the whole point of voting Corbyn was to have someone saying the morally correct things that weren't even getting discussed very much in public, be it on welfare or the economy or foreign affairs. I think very few people in 2015 actually held out much hope for him winning a general election, it was about moving that dang Overton Window. And while that's happened somewhat on some issues, the giving up and accepting the standard lovely xenophobic immigration policy must be killing him because he must know it's loving rotten. The liberal dream of mass migration without mass wealth redistribution just cements existing power structures in the same way that 'colorblind' race policies do, and completely ignores the voices of e.g. African economists saying "emigration is harming us, we need more jobs and investment, not less working people". Nobody really wants to talk about brain drain from an internationalist perspective when we're the beneficiaries though, so the entire floor has been ceded to racists and melts. If Corbyn came out and said "we will establish a fund to offset the effects of immigration by increasing foreign aid" it might give enough gammons aneurysms to swing the election.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:26
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Katt posted:Gold being a beacon of stable investment. :ronpaulsay: actually that's the dollar fluctuating in value against gold
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Apr 7, 2019 13:32
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imo it's ok to criticise labour for cowardice re migration, but the 'freedom of movement will end' message is, again, pretty clearly constructed to say nothing at all
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Apr 7, 2019 13:34
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V. Illych L. posted:imo it's ok to criticise labour for cowardice re migration, but the 'freedom of movement will end' message is, again, pretty clearly constructed to say nothing at all Explain this take to me. How is there any ambiguity in that statement?
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Apr 7, 2019 13:37
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Vlex posted:Explain this take to me. How is there any ambiguity in that statement? freedom of movement is one of the freedoms of the eu. obviously when one leaves the eu, one leaves freedom of movement. this is a statement of logical truth; even if one were to replace it with something almost exactly the same, Freedom of Movement would end and be, well, replaced
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Apr 7, 2019 13:40
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Vlex posted:Explain this take to me. How is there any ambiguity in that statement? "Freedom of Movement" is a specific concept relating to EU membership. "fair management of migration" could literally mean anything depending on who's listening. It's not hugely convincing but that's the idea.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:40
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Total Meatlove posted:What’s the best tron bike on the market then I like my EV car and bikes don’t sit in lovely traffic There's not actually any good ones on the market in the UK at the moment. Zero, the best electric bike manufacturers at the moment, have no presence in the UK at the moment. They will sell you an EU-spec one but you've got to do all of your own maintenance (not actually a problem, allegedly, as of course it only needs a bit of lubrication outside of normal consumables replacement). KTM (whose styling definitely matches the sound) aren't doing any road-legal ones (allegedly because of homologation issues but probably because lol ktm electrics), and the Harley electric bike isn't being sold outside the US at all. Vespa are bringing out an electric scooter next year but the small size severely limits battery life. There's a couple of other manufacturers but they make Moto Morini look like a massive company, with spares and dealer support to match. Ironically the best actual use for an electric bike - a superscoot - isn't even on offer any more since Vectrix went out of business. It's annoying because I'd totally buy a good-looking electric bike with decent dealer support for commuting (especially as I get free charging at work) and keep the dino-burners for the weekend.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:45
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V. Illych L. posted:freedom of movement is one of the freedoms of the eu. obviously when one leaves the eu, one leaves freedom of movement. this is a statement of logical truth; even if one were to replace it with something almost exactly the same, Freedom of Movement would end and be, well, replaced I thought freedom of movement is one of the freedoms of the EEA, not the EU? If a brexit deal had been negotiated which saw Britain leave the EU but remain in the EEA, freedom of movement would not have ended. Is that wrong?
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Apr 7, 2019 13:49
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/07/andrea-leadsom-no-deal-brexit-next-week-would-not-be-so-grim You're a politician, not a social economist or any other profession that monitors these sorts of things for that matter, so please shut the gently caress up. I just want to see the Tory party cease to exist. I don't care if some shill minority party forms, just get rid of it's current iteration and numbers.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:49
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Reveilled posted:I thought freedom of movement is one of the freedoms of the EEA, not the EU? If a brexit deal had been negotiated which saw Britain leave the EU but remain in the EEA, freedom of movement would not have ended. Is that wrong? one could debate this, but it's not a particularly likely outcome imo
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Apr 7, 2019 13:50
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Diet Crack posted:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/07/andrea-leadsom-no-deal-brexit-next-week-would-not-be-so-grim Leadsom is the epitome of upper middle class vaguely psychotic busybody As A Mother-y, and as such knows everything in existence a priori
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Apr 7, 2019 13:51
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Diet Crack posted:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/07/andrea-leadsom-no-deal-brexit-next-week-would-not-be-so-grim She means it won't be grim for her.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:53
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StarkingBarfish posted:This is worth a watch from the c-spam thread: I laughed my rear end off when he got to the bit about how the British soldier has a sense of humour. So, quite probably, did all the squaddies watching it.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:10
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you can very much bring free movement to an end and have a more fair immigration system because an immigration system that has a privileged protected set of people is inherently unfair also at some point you have to deal with the idea that you vote for a person and not a set of strict policy implementations because we live in a representative democracy where autonomy post vote is considered a good and important thing, it's a good reason why elizabeth warren will do mediocrely in the dem primary in the US, because while she's put out nothing but strict policy proposals she's also said she's a capitalist and is really weird about being not very native american and bernie is far more appealing to the left because he puts things in the context of class antagonisms and thus leftists feel more comfortable trusting his decision making regardless of how fleshed out the policy is, which enables Bernie (and Jezza) to have more ambiguous positions that satisfy the concerns of triangulation logic types without really committing you to do anything and most importantly you never alienate your base.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:14
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If you just plan to use an E-Bike for city use then there are loads of great options out there now. The E-Bike market has kind of exploded in the last few years and if you're using it just in a city you don't need anything that's comparable to an actual motorbike.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:14
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Was the magic money tree supposed to be taking the piss out of modern monetary theory or is that just coincidence?
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Apr 7, 2019 14:21
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that this take is extremely racist according to IHRA rules and Akehurst should be reported as a vile antisemite??? https://twitter.com/lukeakehurst/status/1114793301436137472?s=19
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Apr 7, 2019 14:22
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There is a lad I see most mornings who has a small petrol engine attached to his otherwise standard bike, I wonder how legal that is? Personally it's only 7 miles each way to my office so using my legs means I'm getting at least *some* exercise in my life but every situ is different.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:24
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Jose posted:Was the magic money tree supposed to be taking the piss out of modern monetary theory or is that just coincidence? rudd worked at JP morgan and was PPS to the exchequer for a bit, so it's reasonable that she'd have come across MMT before. Nobody ever made the connection though ThomasPaine posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that this take is extremely racist according to IHRA rules and Akehurst should be reported as a vile antisemite??? yeah it's definitely racist, so was Joan Ryan's letter of resignation. Incidentally netanyahu announced he plans to annex Palestine yesterday
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Apr 7, 2019 14:28
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the "flawed complaints procedure" is definitely nothing to do with the fact that you have to smack about 50 melts denying the right of Jewish people to self-determination for each holocaust denier you bring before the panel
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Apr 7, 2019 14:31
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goddamnedtwisto posted::ronpaulsay: actually that's the dollar fluctuating in value against gold Paying for fast food by chipping off fingernail size pieces of gold from my solid gold ingot.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:31
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ThomasPaine posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that this take is extremely racist according to IHRA rules and Akehurst should be reported as a vile antisemite??? Who gives a gently caress what that racist oval office has to say about anything. He's an Iraq war ghoul.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:35
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the gall of this oval office https://twitter.com/vincecable/status/1114618694708158464
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Apr 7, 2019 14:40
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V. Illych L. posted:one could debate this, but it's not a particularly likely outcome imo It's not a particularly likely now, but "Freedom of Movement will end when we leave the EU" was from their 2017 manifesto, where had they won they could have been in a position to lead the withdrawal negotiations. So if it's possible to leave the EU without ending Freedom of Movement, then "Freedom of Movement will end when we leave the EU" is a statement of intent, not a statement of fact.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:41
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Reveilled posted:So if it's possible to leave the EU without ending Freedom of Movement, e; actually wait I misunderstood yeah it's pretty clear that Labour weren't countenancing an EEA agreement in 2017, it's been a long road from there to conference, so it works as a "we mean the single market" thing Spangly A fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 14:41
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Spangly A posted:it isnt My understanding is that freedom of movement is one of the four freedoms of the EEA, which it is possible to be a member of without being a member of the EU.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:44
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Reveilled posted:It's not a particularly likely now, but "Freedom of Movement will end when we leave the EU" was from their 2017 manifesto, where had they won they could have been in a position to lead the withdrawal negotiations. So if it's possible to leave the EU without ending Freedom of Movement, then "Freedom of Movement will end when we leave the EU" is a statement of intent, not a statement of fact. yeaaaah that's one interpretation another is that FoM ends, then is reinstated again, it's a statement that can be made to mean almost anything
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Apr 7, 2019 14:44
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the point being, it's not a particularly courageous bit of political signalling, but claiming that it's arguing for a restrictive immigration policy is also not reasonable - because it's saying nothing at all. again, arguably good politics since they seem to have got away with it, but certainly not good policy (in that it's not making any policy statement at all)
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Apr 7, 2019 14:46
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Jose posted:the gall of this oval office https://twitter.com/grahamdev66/status/1114859835017891840
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Apr 7, 2019 14:56
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I don't know how you can argue that Labour's "freedom of movement will end" line is anything but an attempt to appeal to anti-immigrant brexiteers. It certainly isn't going to reassure EU nationals here.
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Apr 7, 2019 15:09
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If they aren't pressing for a vote then it does seem worryingly blue.
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Apr 7, 2019 15:11
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marktheando posted:I don't know how you can argue that Labour's "freedom of movement will end" line is anything but an attempt to appeal to anti-immigrant brexiteers. It certainly isn't going to reassure EU nationals here. hurrrr durrr im an idiot who hasn't seen what labour's said since day one on this "A Labour government will immediately guarantee existing rights for all EU nationals living in Britain and secure reciprocal rights for UK citizens who have chosen to make their lives in EU countries. EU nationals do not just contribute to our society: they are part of our society. And they should not be used as bargaining chips." https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/
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Apr 7, 2019 15:11
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these last two pages are a magnificent example of why Labour being able to present their message without being constantly derailed and misrepresented by scum is important, and why we'd be aiming for 60% of the vote if richard leonard wasn't a cursed image taken from a 1997 bloopers reel
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Apr 7, 2019 15:15
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Reveilled posted:My understanding is that freedom of movement is one of the four freedoms of the EEA, which it is possible to be a member of without being a member of the EU. It's never been Labour policy to join the EEA though. "Freedom of movement will end when we leave the EU" is a fairly obvious anti-immigrant dogwhistle that I wish Labour didn't keep blowing, but at the same time it's carefully crafted to avoid being an actual policy. At the same time though it's interesting to note that the UK has gotten a lot more pro-immigrant since the referendum, and most people now think immigrants benefit the country. So Labour might not have exactly been great on this, but something is clearly moving the country in the right direction. Personally I think people forget just how anti-immigrant Labour was before Corbyn.
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Apr 7, 2019 15:17
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60% of the vote? So enough to secure all of the major cities and none of the rural constituencies.
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Apr 7, 2019 15:17
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