|
The Thief fanmission community is still pumping them out, which is honestly amazing and cool. I should reinstall Darkloader, and see what's new. I remember playing one mission years ago that was all in B&W, which made the level insanely hard to navigate (and also gave me a headache). Is there a Thief thread?
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 19:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 19:32 |
|
|
I still recommend IW because around the limitations and annoyances is some genuinely fun gameplay, the coffee plot is hilarious and perfectly late 90s and it has the best ending choice of any DX game. Caveat: I haven't actually replayed it since my first run thru about a decade ago.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 22:33
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:Also terrorism became a really big topic not long after the first game. I'd encourage every one to go and watch the Ross Game Dungeon Deus Ex videos. He's got one for the original game through HR. One of his better comments is in the HR video where he talks about how DX and IW draw on multiple different topics to put their plots together. Whereas the plot to HR is just "Cyborg Cyborg Cyborg". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwpLDvAnvo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLEuQrvND0
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 22:38
|
|
|
IW isn't terrible. It's the worst Deus Ex game and as a follow up to the original it was a massive disappointment. Hard act to follow. But like on its own merits it's fine. A solid 6/10 game, if you want more Deus Ex and haven't played it then go ahead. You won't hate yourself (except for trying to get it running).
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 22:42
|
|
|
jojoinnit posted:I still recommend IW because around the limitations and annoyances is some genuinely fun gameplay, the coffee plot is hilarious and perfectly late 90s and it has the best ending choice of any DX game. Haha yeah that's an enormous caveat. I used to remember IW as not being that bad until I replayed it a year or so ago. It's so much worse than I had remembered.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 23:13
|
|
|
Gobblecoque posted:Haha yeah that's an enormous caveat. I used to remember IW as not being that bad until I replayed it a year or so ago. It's so much worse than I had remembered. Yeah, I just played it once and... It's bad. Very bad. For a random example, the damage balance is terrible, and weapons have no feel. Where the other Deus Ex games make headshots and rockets lay waste to all but the toughest enemies, Invisible War plinks away.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 00:30
|
|
|
I played it through a couple of times when it was new. It may have aged even more poorly than I imagine.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 00:38
|
|
|
Doom Mathematic posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOKEsBx4NU Stayed up much later than I intended to watching those videos. The HR one articulated very well what I didnt like about that game, in so far as it always seemed to me to be simply an excuse for a collection of very talented graphic designers and artists to go hog-wild in a sci-fi setting, with seemingly little to no effort at making it coherent to the original games. As dude in the video said, i wish they had left the Deus Ex IP to someone else and made the Ghost-in-the-Akira-Bladerunner game they obviously wanted to. Also, DX is a master-class in camp, earnest story-telling. The story is a mish-mash of the most extravagant late 90's conspiracy theories cribbed from the X-Files, but is played absolutely straight by the characters and contextualised by serious, and real, economic and political ideas, as such I was drawn right into the story and took the MiB and greys and Area-51 stuff as seriously as JC Denton did. DXHR has Pritchard making snarky comments and caricatures like Sarif, it absolutely pales in comparison. FINALLY, Deus Ex seems to me to be a thoroughly American game, rooted in American conspiracy theory and trading in a very American cyberpunk aesthetic (think John Carpenter and Escape from New York, or the Warriors or They Live or what-have-you), and that this was something that the French Canadians at Squeenix Montreal completely missed the mark on in their zeal to flex their ridiculously extravagant designs and pad out their portfolios. I really enjoyed DXHR, I beat it a couple of times, but it sucks as a DX game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 00:45
|
|
|
I don’t mind it being a Deus Ex game so much as setting it in the same continuity as the first game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 01:19
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:There's also Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age, which is a fan-made game based on Thief 2 with a new, female protagonist. I have not played it personally, but no-one ever really mentions it despite every review I've ever seen for it being nothing but glowing. It's extremely good...except for the first mission. That mission is dogshit. After that, its on par with Thief 2 and can sometimes surpass it. It's a full package, even with custom audio from the guards and stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 01:20
|
|
|
I played through IW with the Visible Upgrade patch literally 2 months ago and it's alright. There are still cool things to it like the Queequegs/Pequods stuff, uncovering the plot at Tarsus Academy, NG Resonance, and Elder Scrolls-style seeing how much you can gently caress with NPCs in hub areas without them turning hostile. It has some neat stuff and some decent vent-crawling, and even manages to cram a variety of approaches to most missions into its hilariously small levels. I also like that the emphasis was clearly on switching your biomods in and out depending on circumstance, considering how many they gave you. I enjoyed going from sneaky hacker-type in the beginning to impossibly fast sword-wielding Neo-wannabe in the late game, flinging shipping crates at Templars with my maxed-out strength biomod. Also the wackiest physics engine ever put into a game. Lightningproof fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Apr 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 02:23
|
|
|
Lightningproof posted:I played through IW with the Visible Upgrade patch literally 2 months ago and it's all right. There are still cool things to it like the Queequegs/Pequods stuff, uncovering the plot at Tarsus Academy, NG Resonance, and Elder Scrolls-style seeing how much you can gently caress with NPCs in hub areas without them turning hostile. It has some neat stuff and some decent vent-crawling, and even manages to cram a variety of approaches to most missions into its hilariously small levels. See, I think this was a bad design because of the opportunity cost and pacing. If you don't respec, you complete your upgrades halfway through the game and have nothing to look forward to. However, if you do respec, you're dropped down to zero in whatever category you poke at, making it feel like you threw away all the resources you invested, and needing a whole mission or three to get fully back where you left off. What's more, the inventory is limited enough that you can't carry around a dozen upgrades just in case. It's an interesting idea, but it's not implemented well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 03:14
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:See, I think this was a bad design because of the opportunity cost and pacing. Your biomod canisters don't take up inventory space. You can carry round as many as you want. The other point about losing your progress is totally valid, though. One of many ideas that didn't get the attention they required in IW. I generally just waited till I had enough canisters to instantly max out whatever I was switching to, but that's an inelegant way to handle it. Lightningproof fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Apr 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 03:18
|
|
|
God, that physics engine.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 03:59
|
|
|
I remember 15 or 16 year old me starting IW on release after playing the original DX for the first time just the year before and getting annoyed at the stealth. There was an invisibility aug but as soon as you attacked you revealed yourself - but picking up heavy objects (using the strength/microfibral muscle/whatever it was called biomod) and throwing them at enemies didn't reveal you but still caused them to aggro and chase you once you uncloak. How could they have known it was YOU man and not someone else
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 04:02
|
|
goku i won't do what u tell me
|
The IW physics has to be experienced to be understood.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 04:03
|
|
|
IW was one of the very first implementations of the Havok physics engine so it makes sense its so janky
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 04:54
|
|
|
I was out at sea when they released IW. So I didn't know it had come out. Years later I found a copy used at Gamestop. The same day I bought the Orange box. Being more eager to play some new DX I installed it first. It sucked so much. The loading delays between such small areas. The detachment from everything that I loved about DX game play wise. I made it about an hour and a half in before giving up. Every time I've tried again that's about it. It prompts me to pull out my version 1.0 cd and just play DX again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 05:09
|
|
|
El_Elegante posted:I don’t mind it being a Deus Ex game so much as setting it in the same continuity as the first game. I think any year now they'll give up on the original continuity and just remake the first one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 12:26
|
|
|
Did they ever attempt an in-universe explanation for why everything looks different in Deus Ex vs the prequels? Or did they just not bring it up? Maybe a fashion magazine talking about the newest trends or something
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 12:29
|
|
|
Not really. Sci-fi just always looks outdated and you're going to have the original look lower tech than the new version when there's that kind of time between them. There's no point trying to explain it imo, just roll with it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 13:56
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Did they ever attempt an in-universe explanation for why everything looks different in Deus Ex vs the prequels? Or did they just not bring it up? Maybe a fashion magazine talking about the newest trends or something? No, but I didn’t find that aspect of the game’s design too jarring. Deus Ex’s design philosophy was “five minutes before the collapse of civilization,” so the prequels depicting a Renaissance that slides inexorably into a grittier version of the 80s and 90s feels less out of place.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 15:23
|
|
|
I think the problem with the designs is more that they used the same handful of models for every single NPC in the game. Pretentious renaissance works for high society and prominent medical companies, but it does not work for a woman going through the trash. The big issue with HR's story is that they have the pieces for what could be a criticism of the rich essentially using the poor as toys to push their own ends (you know, like cyberpunk tends to do), but they came to the conclusion that the issue is the cybernetic enhancements themselves. They ended up getting classism mixed up with racism and it made for a big narrative mess. I have not played MD because my computer can't run it and I don't own a PS4, but from what little I did play they doubled down on that so stupidly hard that the salvageable pieces they originally wrote almost feel like an accident, or only done because they had seen it in previous works.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 15:30
|
|
|
Also the prequels take place what, 30 years before the original game? Makes sense fashion and aesthetics would change especially as society transition from mechanical augs to nano machines. I mean, not too many people rocking mullets and tracksuit these days.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 15:34
|
|
|
Doom Mathematic posted:I think any year now they'll give up on the original continuity and just remake the first one. I would pay $60 drat dollars for a Paul Denton DX that ends in his apartment.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 15:38
|
|
|
Solaris 2.0 posted:Also the prequels take place what, 30 years before the original game? Makes sense fashion and aesthetics would change especially as society transition from mechanical augs to nano machines. athleisure is huge again, actually.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 15:39
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:It's extremely good...except for the first mission. That mission is dogshit. After that, its on par with Thief 2 and can sometimes surpass it. It's a full package, even with custom audio from the guards and stuff. A bit like Deus Ex's (in)famous Nameless Mod, then, in that regard?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 17:51
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:A bit like Deus Ex's (in)famous Nameless Mod, then, in that regard? Yes. Very much so. For the record I thought everything in Nameless Mod after that first mission was solid gold, also on par or oftentimes surpassing the original DX. That should give you an idea of where my opinions lie. Man I should go back and play both of those mods again, they are so good. It's a total shame that they made full, entire games for free that if sold, would have sold well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 21:19
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:It's a total shame that they made full, entire games for free that if sold, would have sold well. While part of me would like to see the creators be materially rewarded for their work, legal issues aside, the world needs passion projects - even flawed ones. If these people were working for some developer, they would be under strict deadlines and razor-thin budgets while being told what to do by people who have no idea what constitutes good art and only care about counting beans. There is a lot of fan-made rubbish out there, but the gold shines all the brighter knowing that it was done for love and nothing more. To give another example which I will not name for reasons that will be stated: There is currently a tightly closed beta out there for a game very much like Mario Maker. I would badly love to be a part of it, but the beta has been strictly controlled and keys for it have been hard to come by and relatively few. Not surprisingly, the developers are trying to keep it very hush-hush with the imminent release of the Switch port of Mario Maker. I call it a port, even though it's not technically so, because from all I have seen Nintendo is adding a few handfuls of middling additions to the previous formula so that they can sell it again on the Switch for 60 US dollars. Meanwhile, this passion project has not only introduced, for example, power-ups that Nintendo never bothered to put into MM (Frog Suit, Tanooki Suit, Hammer Suit), but has made brand new art in order to import those power-ups into other graphical styles from Mario history. Clearly, Nintendo didn't bother to do a lot of this, even simple things like put the Frog/Tanooki/Hammer suits into the Mario 3 aesthetic, into the games because they either didn't think that the work would increase sales and/or they wanted to withhold some things to help push the sequel. Meanwhile, these uncompensated devs are creating a bunch of backgrounds and styles and adding assets with no expectation of compensation, yet Nintendo can't be bothered. I think that this shows the difference between a money-spin, where any effort is only expended if it's thought to increase profits sufficiently, versus a labour of love done in order to take a beloved thing and make it better simply because a group of clever, caring people want it to exist.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 22:05
|
|
|
And now we're getting to the point where companies are making Doom and Quake 1 campaigns and selling them as commercial products. Shits bananas.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 22:12
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:The Thief fanmission community is still pumping them out, which is honestly amazing and cool. I should reinstall Darkloader, and see what's new. I remember playing one mission years ago that was all in B&W, which made the level insanely hard to navigate (and also gave me a headache). The Thief thread was lively and hopping until thi4f released, which very thoroughly murdered it. There's been some really great FM's since the source code patch, but it's sad that the old hosting sites are dying and some of the great missions vanishing forever. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 22:24
|
|
|
Rime posted:The Thief thread was lively and hopping until thi4f released, which very thoroughly murdered it. Thief Missions still exists, as does Taffer's Paradise. I might make a new thread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 23:00
|
|
|
Rime posted:The Thief thread was lively and hopping until thi4f released, which very thoroughly murdered it. I know full well that I'm outside the pale on this one, but I didn't mind Thi4f or however one spells it. It wasn't as good, apart from visually, as the others, but I thought that it was fine. Then again, I seem to be bonkers for liking Deadly Shadows the most. The_Doctor posted:I might make a new thread. Please do, genuinely, and link it here.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
I still rate DXHR as better than DXIW- DXHR fumbled the story, but at least the gameplay is better. HR does simplify and reduce the gameplay, no location based damage etc, but it does so in a much less odious way than DWIW at least. No Omar ending though. I know it's a bit off-topic but I've never gotten into the Thief games, but have long meant to. Is there a best place to start, good set of mods to use? Should I just wait for the thread to be posted with a complete & helpful OP?
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2019 00:11
|
|
|
I think you should start by playing thief 1 vanilla, they're not buggy or unbalanced or incomplete games. Thief 1 is definitely worse than Thief 2 but you should them both
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2019 00:14
|
|
|
System Shock 2's engine make Thief 1 and 2 seem antiquated so beware. Yes, it's me, the guy who loves DX, Ss2, Prey, Dishonored and so many other games inspired by them but never could get into Thief 1 or 2. I think it's something about walking slow and watching patrols that bores me so much. The graphics are so weird too, more technologically advanced then Doom 2 but way less engaging.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2019 00:29
|
|
|
Uh, all three of those games are by the same developer using the same engine, and Thief 2 came out after SS2 to boot. Say what you will for the game design, but it's not because of the engine.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2019 00:40
|
|
|
tripwood posted:System Shock 2's engine make Thief 1 and 2 seem antiquated so beware. This is the scariest thing I've ever heard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2019 02:05
|
|
|
i'd probably look for whatever graphical enhancements are available (dark engine games were really not good looking even back when they released, particularly the low-poly models), but otherwise just jump into Thief 1 vanilla and go in order of release.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2019 03:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 19:32 |
|
|
I feel weird for the fact I like Mankind Divided far, far more than Human Revolution. the doubling down on the Aug thing was silly, yes, but it plays a ton better and the worldspace you're given is way more interesting and more sanely designed than any space in HR. (gently caress Hengsha forever, that stupid awful confusing hellhole that tries to make you loop around it to reach certain spots and that boring office space tower climb too.) I'm constantly looking around the city and other spaces for any high-up nooks and crannies and weird little alcoves with goodies, and being able to actually play full pacifist stealth has been great too. I also feel the minor quests that aren't part of the main story are alot more interesting, especially the mafia stuff. (Knocking a guy out and dragging him out of a rival territory appartment complex and hiding him in a dumpster was just so much fun.) I guess the main story isn't as egregious the further in it goes, and I actualy liked the key cyborg villian guy whose name escapes me a bunch.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2019 03:35
|
|
