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Nate RFB posted:Specifically to get Godseeker mode, I assume? I was mostly just thinking/worried about actually completing the full boss rush which I think is going to be beyond me. You unlock each individual boss for replay as you beat them in the main game
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Apr 8, 2019 18:26
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Nate RFB posted:Specifically to get Godseeker mode, I assume? I was mostly just thinking/worried about actually completing the full boss rush which I think is going to be beyond me. If you just show up to the Godmaster content you can refight every boss as much as you want.
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Apr 8, 2019 18:28
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Well that's great! Does it still have the Grimmchild requirement?
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Apr 8, 2019 18:35
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Nate RFB posted:Well that's great! Nope!
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Apr 8, 2019 18:58
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I do hope the sequel is a little bit less stingy with some charm upgrades that IMO should've just been permanent. There's no real gameplay reason to just have the compass, geo vacuum, and sprintmaster abilities on at all times other than making getting around the map a little bit more of a hassle. I guess sprintmaster could have ramifications for boss fights but I think that's a hit the game can afford to make.
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Apr 8, 2019 19:38
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A trade-off between power and quality of life is neat imo.
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Apr 8, 2019 19:49
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Nate RFB posted:I do hope the sequel is a little bit less stingy with some charm upgrades that IMO should've just been permanent. There's no real gameplay reason to just have the compass, geo vacuum, and sprintmaster abilities on at all times other than making getting around the map a little bit more of a hassle. I guess sprintmaster could have ramifications for boss fights but I think that's a hit the game can afford to make. From what they've shown so far the new mod system does seem a little more stripped-down 
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Apr 8, 2019 19:53
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I put in a bunch of hours the past month or so and I got to hollow knight, I get close to beating him but man these bosses just take so long gonna try and get the last nail upgrade but it’s been a good game even if I’m not very good at them.
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Apr 8, 2019 20:53
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I played this game for 42 hours and got 100% without following a guide, and thought it was incredible. That's before any of the DLC was released. With Gungeon and Dead Cells big updates just arriving, I'm curious how much time/how clear Hollow Knight's DLC content is, or if I should put the whole thing off for a while until I'm ready to play the game over again from scratch.
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Apr 8, 2019 20:59
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SirSamVimes posted:A trade-off between power and quality of life is neat imo. Trade-offs between power and quality of life are the exact opposite of good design.
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Apr 8, 2019 21:37
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like if you can think of a quality of life change that doesn't also mess with game balance by making the player stronger, it should just work that way in the first place
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Apr 8, 2019 21:39
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I like it in this case because it encourages you to re-charm before bosses instead of just using the same loadout the whole game.
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Apr 8, 2019 21:56
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I dunno I used the same loadout for most of the game.
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Apr 8, 2019 21:57
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I re-evaluated my charms during boss fights I was stuck on and afterwards. These were also the only times I re-evaluated my charms.. The compass, I think the devs actually want you to play the game without the compass because it makes you learn the map better. No Wave fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Apr 8, 2019 |
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Apr 8, 2019 22:00
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I'm in the process of dealing with the 2 hardest non-Godseeker content: Nightmare King Grimm and Radiance. For the former, how the heck do I deal with the trailing flames from his horizontal dash attack? They linger for a second, and any attempt at moving towards him will be brutally punished. For the latter, I just need patience. I've gotten past the first phase once, but I completely whiffed the platforming element. I also need a way to deal with the preceding boss without burning too much Soul while healing. I dealt with Hollow Knight with no problems in the past, I killed him on my first go, it's just that proceeding attempts at the one-two boss combo results in me getting too greedy and not healing sufficiently whenever he does his two-damage attacks.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:17
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No Wave posted:The compass, I think the devs actually want you to play the game without the compass because it makes you learn the map better. That just makes it sound like they were too afraid to not have a compass at all. 
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Apr 8, 2019 22:22
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You probably won't beat radiance until long after the hollow knight is a literal joke that you do by reflex. So just relax and keep playing, radiance is hard but nothing it does is totally unfair so you should make gradual progress.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:22
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Phobophilia posted:I'm in the process of dealing with the 2 hardest non-Godseeker content: Nightmare King Grimm and Radiance. For the latter, this is just me but I found this fight not to be one I could heal during. And if I couldn't heal I figured I might as well go with Joni's Blessing. Combing that with the Fragile Strength allowed me to deal enough damage and outlast the boss with no need of healing. You can upgrade the Strength if needed to make it unbreakable but it also might be worth the risk, so long as you can reliably make it to that phase of the fight. E: This was my loadout for the former:  And the latter:  Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 8, 2019 |
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Apr 8, 2019 22:22
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:That just makes it sound like they were too afraid to not have a compass at all.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:23
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Trade-offs between power and quality of life are the exact opposite of good design. Why?
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Apr 8, 2019 22:34
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SirSamVimes posted:Why? Because playing well shouldn't mean having less fun, or vice-versa.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:36
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I sucked at everything in the game except navigating so I almost never used the compass because I found it a waste of a slot. It should still be baked in though.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:39
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SirSamVimes posted:Why? I'ma guess they're going to say that games shouldn't create friction with the player / incentivize them to act in suboptimal ways, but I quite liked it in Hollow Knight. Having to choose the compass, the lack of auto-updating map, and the costs associated with the full navigation package underscored the hostility of Hollownest and indifference of the world towards your quest. If you go without the compass for any length of time you also have to appreciate the labrynthine nature of Hollownest as, even when you know where you're going, mentally keeping track of where you are and how to get there can be very difficult. The geo-sucking charm was just unnecessary, and while Sprintmaster is nice, there's enough movement options I wouldn't call it a must have.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:44
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Also just in general, people overvalue the importance of novelty and changing up your build just for the sake of it. It doesn't matter in the slightest if someone uses the same build all game as long as it takes all game to master what you can do with that build, and as long as that build continues to function. The only reason to change your build is if the first one is either boring, or inadequate. You should trust players to determine on their own when they're bored, so that's never a good reason to force it. The alternative is obnoxious and patronizing. (See for instance Firaxis X-Com's random and hidden class spawns for new rookies.) You do want to catch and prevent the situation where a player goes into a fight with inadequate upgrades or the wrong tools for the job, but doesn't realize they can do something about it. However, Hollow Knight already does a pretty good job of this by making benches be both your save point and where you go to change your build, and putting a bench before every bossfight. You don't need much more than that.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:45
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ItBreathes posted:The geo-sucking charm was just unnecessary, and while Sprintmaster is nice, there's enough movement options I wouldn't call it a must have. Like with Metroidvanias sometimes the little, incremental benefits you gain as you amass powers that make the running around that much a little bit more fun is sometimes the best parts of the experience. They don't necessarily have to mean anything gamebreaking but those little victories can mean the world when you are traversing something as hostile as Hallownest. Like suddenly getting the wall climb, the double jump, etc. are great not because they unlocked more areas but because they made the act of simply engaging the game tighter and more fun.
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Apr 8, 2019 22:53
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Not for me. There are thirty+ charms in the game and experimenting with them is interesting and a lot of players won't do it unless you encourage them to by making it more or less mandatory. Changing the number of slots available to me before and after boss fights thanks to compass and sucky made a lot more charms potentially useful rather than just having the one god loadout.quote:It doesn't matter in the slightest if someone uses the same build all game as long as it takes all game to master what you can do with that build, and as long as that build continues to function. The only reason to change your build is if the first one is either boring, or inadequate. No Wave fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Apr 8, 2019 |
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Apr 8, 2019 22:56
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No Wave posted:Also this is totally wrong. I will by default ignore most game mechanics and will give it as little attention as possible. I need the push to go over my charms again because it takes some upfront effort each time but it was fun. Yes, this is exactly the sort of sentiment I was thinking of when I said people overvalue novelty for its own sake. Why should the game be made more tedious to get you to do something you could have done anyways and already want to do?
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Apr 8, 2019 23:05
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Because I wouldnt. There's upfront effort and you often need to be given reasons to do things you end up enjoying.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:08
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Phobophilia posted:I'm in the process of dealing with the 2 hardest non-Godseeker content: Nightmare King Grimm and Radiance. I would recommend Sharp Shadow, and strongly recommend Unn & Deep Focus. His dive->dash attack is easy to deal with by dashing towards him as soon as he starts coming down (You'll do damage to him with Sharp Shadow as well) and then immediately jumping up and towards him while downslashing. If you hit him with the downslash you'll have enough airtime to be safe from the fire trail, but if you don't you can just dash afterwards. The dash->uppercut move is easy if you just dash through him (Sharp Shadow is really good) and then run after him. The middle flame always goes straight down so it's the easiest to avoid. For the fire bats you want to jump to clear the second bat and then dash towards him when you hear him launch the fourth bat. The fire pillars is his best attack for you and the reason you use Shape of Unn; during this attack you can safely heal 3 times without issue. The only danger is that Shape of Unn has a slight pause after you finish healing to max, if you only need to heal once or twice you should wait until a couple pillars have been launched. The balloon is just lots of short jumps and making sure you don't run out of space, the spikes are just reflex & positioning. It can take a while to get used to the timings and react appropriately to all his attacks, but with Shape of Unn & Deep Focus to heal up you get a lot of leeway.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:09
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No Wave posted:Because I wouldnt. There's upfront effort and you often need to be given reasons to do things you end up enjoying. You're asking to be treated like a child who won't eat their vegetables. If you were the only one affected I would find this weird but harmless, but in this case, it makes the game worse for the rest of us.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:09
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Why would you want to eliminate things people value
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Apr 8, 2019 23:09
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Don't tell someone doing nkg for the first time that he's easy!!!! He's hard as heck. He's easy after you've beaten him half a dozen times though.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:10
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yes, this is exactly the sort of sentiment I was thinking of when I said people overvalue novelty for its own sake. game design is not science
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Apr 8, 2019 23:11
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BBJoey posted:game design is not science Nothing in this conversation has suggested otherwise.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:12
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:You're asking to be treated like a child who won't eat their vegetables. If you were the only one affected I would find this weird but harmless, but in this case, it makes the game worse for the rest of us.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:12
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No Wave posted:What do you think game design is? You give players reasons to do the things that are fun, especially things they might not do otherwise. I think game design is about making things that are intrinsically fun to do.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:14
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for every person that says pantheon of hallownest is fun, theres probably at least 100 that say it isnt or isn't worth the effort, etc
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Apr 8, 2019 23:18
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I have never felt that the game is worse because you have to spend charm slots on the compass & geo gathering, and I used them both for almost the entirety of my first playthrough and use geo gathering for all of my subsequent playthroughs as well. It was sometimes a nice bonus after having trouble with a boss to suddenly get two extra charm slots by switching out. Like what is the argument against it, that it's unfair you have to spend a resource on it? Resource management is a core part of games, charm management is part of that. If the compass or geo magnet didn't exist at all that would be annoying, but they do and you can use them and they're both super cheap so what's the issue.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:23
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As an example specter knight is a cool game but like shovel knight there's one boring relic (alluring skull) that's 10x easier to use than the other ones so it's all you use. In hard mode you can't use it, there's just a big red X over it. Hard mode is way more fun because of it even though player agency is reduced. Players are lazy and can't be trusted to do what's most fun by default.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:23
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What you're describing is a balance problem; it's not the same thing.
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Apr 8, 2019 23:26
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