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Here is a free tip for Bioware. If you want DA4 to be the GOAT RPG, then make sure the main character is the Mabari from DA:O. You're welcome, EA.
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Apr 6, 2019 23:05
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The Kotaku article about things at Bioware sure has made me convinced that DA4 will be a shitshow but maybe after this they can turn it around? At least we know for sure it's a thing.Cythereal posted:Planescape: Torment was a wonderfully written, brilliantly imaginative and plotted game that barely affected me because I just didn't care about the Nameless One. I just can't get my head around that idea at all. I guess I'm curious about everyone, even if they're a dick.
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Apr 7, 2019 01:13
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Taear posted:I just can't get my head around that idea at all. I guess I'm curious about everyone, even if they're a dick. And that's fair. Whereas the first question I ask about any video game protagonist is "Why should I care what happens to this person?" Doubly so in RPGs where what does happen to that person should be up to me.
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Apr 7, 2019 01:20
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https://kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351
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Apr 9, 2019 17:38
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The cancelled DA4 sounds cool, I hope they don't wreck the new one too much. I didn't know ending Mass Effect was being reconsidered though, that's good news.
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Apr 9, 2019 18:15
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Meh. I disliked Andromeda, despised Inquisition, and never felt the slightest desire to play Anthem. I hope DA4 will be good and Bioware will find its way back, but I very much doubt both.
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Apr 9, 2019 18:17
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rip bioware
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Apr 9, 2019 18:17
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Oh dear me posted:The cancelled DA4 sounds cool, I hope they don't wreck the new one too much. I didn't know ending Mass Effect was being reconsidered though, that's good news. I don't think they were never gonna entirely end Mass Effect. having a recognizable brand is super valuable. the question I think was more how long they were gonna wait to reboot it or give it another try whether or not it'll be BioWare making Mass Effect 5: The Apology is another question entirely
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Apr 9, 2019 18:18
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Cythereal posted:Meh. I disliked Andromeda, despised Inquisition, and never felt the slightest desire to play Anthem. I think Inquisition was the best DA game overall and one of the better games that EAWare has released. Most of the open world stuff that folks don't care for is completely optional, and the characters and story (especially with Trespasser) mean cool big things coming to the DA universe. I hope that DA4 is at least as good as Inquisition.
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Apr 9, 2019 18:41
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Mass Effect was always going to be a very weird franchise to handle, since the trilogy basically self-immolated the whole setting at the last possible second. Even if the ending itself had been *good*, that would've made for a very challenging way to continue forward. You see a lot of people argue about whether prequels can work when you already know what happens in the end, but I think it's a whole different issue when the "what happens" is "like 90% of the galaxy is wiped out by the Reapers."
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Apr 9, 2019 18:59
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chaosapiant posted:I hope that DA4 is at least as good as Inquisition. I also hope this. I do not, unfortunately, believe it is likely. Generic American posted:Mass Effect was always going to be a very weird franchise to handle, since the trilogy basically self-immolated the whole setting at the last possible second. Even if the ending itself had been *good*, that would've made for a very challenging way to continue forward. You see a lot of people argue about whether prequels can work when you already know what happens in the end, but I think it's a whole different issue when the "what happens" is "like 90% of the galaxy is wiped out by the Reapers." I think there's a good concept for post-apocalyptic ME game, where they choose a canon ending, and the job is to rebuild from what remains. Lots of moral choices about what should be preserved vs. what should be built from scratch in the new world. I do not think modern Bioware could pull that game off, however. I would absolutely love to be proven wrong though. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Apr 9, 2019 |
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Apr 9, 2019 18:59
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Generic American posted:Mass Effect was always going to be a very weird franchise to handle, since the trilogy basically self-immolated the whole setting at the last possible second. Even if the ending itself had been *good*, that would've made for a very challenging way to continue forward. You see a lot of people argue about whether prequels can work when you already know what happens in the end, but I think it's a whole different issue when the "what happens" is "like 90% of the galaxy is wiped out by the Reapers." If they do another Mass Effect game, I suspect they're just going to pick a canon ending and move forward, player outcry be damned. chaosapiant posted:I think Inquisition was the best DA game overall and one of the better games that EAWare has released. Most of the open world stuff that folks don't care for is completely optional, and the characters and story (especially with Trespasser) mean cool big things coming to the DA universe. I hope that DA4 is at least as good as Inquisition. The open world stuff is only a part of my issues with DAI, and not the biggest part either. I just don't have faith in Bioware anymore.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:01
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Cythereal posted:If they do another Mass Effect game, I suspect they're just going to pick a canon ending and move forward, player outcry be damned. I don't understand most people's fear of developers picking a canon. It doesn't invalidate your choices in the previous game, it's just a "What If" scenario. You can't build a series with continuity and make choices carry over consistently without marginalising the effects of those choices.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:04
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CottonWolf posted:I don't understand most people's fear of developers picking a canon. It doesn't invalidate your choices in the previous game, it's just a "What If" scenario. You can't build a series with continuity and make choices carry over consistently without marginalising the effects of those choices. So... don't make a series with choices carrying over. Tell a good story with a good conclusion, then tell another, different one. But that would dampen the brand and people getting super invested in their latest protagonist. I think the obsession with importing games from one to the next and making choices carry over is the single biggest problem in Dragon Age's storytelling.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:07
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Bioware could combine all of the endings to ME3 just like Deus Ex did and run with that. Shepard "disappeared" and so did the Reapers. Lots of AIs and Organics merged, but to lovely effect and died. Lots of other poo poo exploded. Then move the story ahead a couple of hundred years and have a new adventure while the galaxy is rebuilding. Maybe the new game could start right as the last of the Mass Relays are fixed, and a portal to some other lovely adversary is opened, but this time the galaxy has only just rebuilt. Old rivalries are re-ignited amongst the species of the Milky Way as well. This gives you a clean slate with a mostly "ME1 like" galaxy and tons of room to do cool poo poo.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:09
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chaosapiant posted:Bioware could combine all of the endings to ME3 just like Deus Ex did and run with that. Shepard "disappeared" and so did the Reapers. Lots of AIs and Organics merged, but to lovely effect and died. Lots of other poo poo exploded. Then move the story ahead a couple of hundred years and have a new adventure while the galaxy is rebuilding. Maybe the new game could start right as the last of the Mass Relays are fixed, and a portal to some other lovely adversary is opened, but this time the galaxy has only just rebuilt. Old rivalries are re-ignited amongst the species of the Milky Way as well. This gives you a clean slate with a mostly "ME1 like" galaxy and tons of room to do cool poo poo. I always thought the "all three endings are true" solution is the best way to move forward with the Mass Effect story. The Reapers are dead, Shepard the God-Reaper disappears and is out there dreaming somewhere in dark space, and Joker's hat is alive.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:11
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exquisite tea posted:I always thought the "all three endings are true" solution is the best way to move forward with the Mass Effect story. The Reapers are dead, Shepard the God-Reaper disappears and is out there dreaming somewhere in dark space, and Joker's hat is alive. Yep. It solves the "how do we move forward without pissing off fans of Tali's sweat" crowd and as long as it's written well enough, gives us back a clean slate to enjoy the world building again without the baggage of the Reapers attached. That's what people really want. They want to hang out with their cool space buds and go on cool adventures in what is arguably one of the better space opera settings created.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:18
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chaosapiant posted:Yep. It solves the "how do we move forward without pissing off fans of Tali's sweat" crowd and as long as it's written well enough, gives us back a clean slate to enjoy the world building again without the baggage of the Reapers attached. That's what people really want. They want to hang out with their cool space buds and go on cool adventures in what is arguably one of the better space opera settings created. no they want to resolve the conflict between creator and created, that's all they ever wanted to do and that's what mass effect is really about. not reading replies to this!
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Apr 9, 2019 19:21
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I honestly don't know if I could get interested in a new Mass Effect game that followed up on the Synthesis ending. That would just be... completely unrecognizable, and you would need a crazy good writer to pull that off as the start of a new chapter. At that point, I feel like it being a Mass Effect game at all would be a metric ton of unnecessary baggage. Even Destroy, as the cleanest possible breaking off point for the trilogy, made it hard to bring back anything really recognizable. Hell, the centerpiece of the entire galactic society was turned into a mass grave for a bunch of half-melted corpses, so the only place we could really revisit would be... what, Omega?
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Apr 9, 2019 19:24
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Generic American posted:I honestly don't know if I could get interested in a new Mass Effect game that followed up on the Synthesis ending. That would just be... completely unrecognizable, and you would need a crazy good writer to pull that off as the start of a new chapter. At that point, I feel like it being a Mass Effect game at all would be a metric ton of unnecessary baggage. That would be the most exciting thing about a post-trilogy Mass Effect. You get to experience some familiar locations and civilizations, but the entire balance of power in the galaxy has been totally upended and you have to choose how to rebuild, who gets to control each star system now that the Council is gone, etc. There are so many stories you could tell in a post-Reaper War universe that you'd have to be sorely lacking in imagination to not come up with something good. Alas, instead we got Andromeda.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:27
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And that's something I just don't want to see. Mass Effect's story ended, well done despite the problems. Don't dig that corpse back out. Bioware's bad luck that lovely management and shittier executives from EA meant that Bioware's last couple stabs at basically making new settings were awful.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:30
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Generic American posted:I honestly don't know if I could get interested in a new Mass Effect game that followed up on the Synthesis ending. That would just be... completely unrecognizable, and you would need a crazy good writer to pull that off as the start of a new chapter. At that point, I feel like it being a Mass Effect game at all would be a metric ton of unnecessary baggage. This is why I suggested also moving ahead a few hundred years. Then you can be intentionally vague about details. The Citadel could've been rebuilt, for example. For synthesis you could just say "we had reports of AIs and Organics merging, flipping out, and committing a mass suicide. No one knows what really happened. And so on and so on.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:30
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Cythereal posted:So... don't make a series with choices carrying over. Tell a good story with a good conclusion, then tell another, different one. Making choices is way more important to me than seeing the movie that the dev wanted me to see, though. I don't know if that's a minority opinion because people love Naughty Dog games too and I couldn't give a poo poo about them so take it with a grain of salt I guess  Like Alistair on his own is a very generic fantasy character but the fact that he can end up as a hardass elf-mistress-banging queen, a dumbfuck figurehead king, drunk, dead or just completely the same by the end of the game makes his journey much more compelling. Not that all of this can realistically carry over to new games in a substantial way (though seeing them furiously backpedal on stuff like killing Leliana or freeing the mages in DAO is funny) but even in a self-contained game having real choices is a big deal to me and probably a lot of RPG fans.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:32
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exquisite tea posted:There are so many stories you could tell in a post-Reaper War universe that you'd have to be sorely lacking in imagination to not come up with something good. Alas, instead we got Andromeda. Andromeda was a tragically bad game, but I'd much rather the next Mass Effect was set in its universe than ours, if that meant we could meet more different species and never hear about the sodding genophage again. I really think ME's themes were too played out by the end of 3 (terrible ending aside). One of Andromeda's problems was that you went to a whole new galaxy and only met one species plus the Collectors, and your companions included generic gravelly Krogan, generic croaky Turian etc. They could do so much more.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:37
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Wolfsheim posted:Like Alistair on his own is a very generic fantasy character but the fact that he can end up as a hardass elf-mistress-banging queen, a dumbfuck figurehead king, drunk, dead or just completely the same by the end of the game makes his journey much more compelling. Not that all of this can realistically carry over to new games in a substantial way (though seeing them furiously backpedal on stuff like killing Leliana or freeing the mages in DAO is funny) but even in a self-contained game having real choices is a big deal to me and probably a lot of RPG fans. I like having choices. I like having choices like these. I hate JRPGs with completely predefined protagonists (hi Jerry over in Witcher) and linear stories. I do not like Bioware making their settings revolve around the same dozen or so people in every game and contriving reasons to make most choices not matter because they have to make choices about what the next game is going to be like, and that means either picking a canon, or making choices in the previous game simply not matter. That is why I want games to be self-contained stories with satisfying conclusions. Baldur's Gate pulled it off, and Mass Effect kind of did, but I loathe it in Dragon Age.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:40
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Oh dear me posted:One of Andromeda's problems was that you went to a whole new galaxy and only met one species plus the Collectors, and your companions included generic gravelly Krogan, generic croaky Turian etc. They could do so much more. They had zero confidence in their story or ability to create new characters and were just trying to cargo cult their way into a new Mass Effect
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Apr 9, 2019 19:41
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exquisite tea posted:That would be the most exciting thing about a post-trilogy Mass Effect. You get to experience some familiar locations and civilizations, but the entire balance of power in the galaxy has been totally upended and you have to choose how to rebuild, who gets to control each star system now that the Council is gone, etc. There are so many stories you could tell in a post-Reaper War universe that you'd have to be sorely lacking in imagination to not come up with something good. Alas, instead we got Andromeda. This was really my biggest problem with the trilogy. Bioware has almost never been good at telling those stories, so even as someone who still wants to like Bioware, I can't picture a post-Reaper rebuilding of the universe that wouldn't have turned out looking like how Andromeda handwaved the only interesting things about exploring a new galaxy. That we wouldn't get any of those big ideas playing out, because they would get the same general treatment as the Nexus or Kadara, just with a thin layer of polish. So them tearing down every pillar of the setting doesn't seem like a promising new opportunity to me; it seems more like they just set another pointless hurdle for themselves to fumble over.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:46
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Generic American posted:This was really my biggest problem with the trilogy. Bioware has almost never been good at telling those stories, so even as someone who still wants to like Bioware, I can't picture a post-Reaper rebuilding of the universe that wouldn't have turned out looking like how Andromeda handwaved the only interesting things about exploring a new galaxy. That we wouldn't get any of those big ideas playing out, because they would get the same general treatment as the Nexus or Kadara, just with a thin layer of polish. So them tearing down every pillar of the setting doesn't seem like a promising new opportunity to me; it seems more like they just set another pointless hurdle for themselves to fumble over. Again, you don't need any one specific premise for a story to be good. A post-trilogy Mass Effect could be great, as could have Andromeda. As could something totally different. You just need some people with a single ounce of vision and creativity, which is what Bioware is lacking in the most, and why they can't be trusted with anything right now.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:49
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Cythereal posted:I like having choices. I like having choices like these. I hate JRPGs with completely predefined protagonists (hi Jerry over in Witcher) and linear stories. Arguably they should have done it the way New Vegas did and take the broad strokes of the 'good' ending of the previous game as canon then just go balls out on a self-contained story with no plans to ever make those choices matter in a future game. On a sidenote Geralt rules and Witcher 3 is the best western RPG in existence right now but that's because it seamlessly blended defined characters with interesting choices and consequences  . It also does the 'your decision from previous games can carry over!' thing but it ends up mattering in exactly one sidequest so whatever, they knew not to dwell on it too much.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:55
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Wolfsheim posted:On a sidenote Geralt rules and Witcher 3 is the best western RPG in existence right now but that's because it seamlessly blended defined characters with interesting choices and consequences Why do people keep trying to sell me on that game? I do not like Jerry and I do not like the open world, I will not buy it.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:03
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Wolfsheim posted:Witcher 3 is the best western RPG in existence right now but that's because it seamlessly blended defined characters with interesting choices and consequences Hm. While I liked Witcher 3, I have struggled to replay it even once, because it is not different enough each time. I think only the different endings for the Baron's quest really caught my imagination. Whereas I have played through every Dragon Age and Mass Effect (except Andromeda) a zillion times, to experience all the different choices and player character possibilities. Perhaps it's the latter that make the choices feel more important; I'm not sure.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:05
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Cythereal posted:Why do people keep trying to sell me on that game? I do not like Jerry and I do not like the open world, I will not buy it. I'm of the mindset that the Witcher 3 is so good everyone should play it. I don't expect everyone will like it, but everyone should play it to see what a story based RPG can really be. That said, I feel that strongly about it because I adore it and because it shames the current stock of Bioware and Bethesda developed RPGs. That said, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a fanboy. Additionally, if someone isn't interested in a game, there's nothing wrong with that. While I believe that person is missing out, I'm sure there's tons of poo poo that people feel I'm missing out on. As for Geralt, I feel that ever complain made about him is made from folks who haven't spent much time with him, and only report on his surface elements: he's a gruff euro-white anti-hero and that he fits a number of clichés, while the truth is that he's intentionally made to look that way just so when his real personality comes through it subverts expectation. Geralt is a tired old man with terrible dad jokes.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:10
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chaosapiant posted:I'm of the mindset that the Witcher 3 is so good everyone should play it. I don't expect everyone will like it, but everyone should play it to see what a story based RPG can really be. That said, I feel that strongly about it because I adore it and because it shames the current stock of Bioware and Bethesda developed RPGs. That said, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a fanboy. Additionally, if someone isn't interested in a game, there's nothing wrong with that. While I believe that person is missing out, I'm sure there's tons of poo poo that people feel I'm missing out on. Good for you. Given that Witcher 3 fails for me at the very first hurdle of "Do I want to play as this character?" I'm happy saying I'm not missing anything.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:13
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chaosapiant posted:I'm of the mindset that the Witcher 3 is so good everyone should play it. I don't expect everyone will like it, but everyone should play it to see what a story based RPG can really be. That said, I feel that strongly about it because I adore it and because it shames the current stock of Bioware and Bethesda developed RPGs. That said, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a fanboy. Additionally, if someone isn't interested in a game, there's nothing wrong with that. While I believe that person is missing out, I'm sure there's tons of poo poo that people feel I'm missing out on. Its always telling when Witcher 3 comes up that no one ever mentions the gameplay. Because holy poo poo is it some tedious garbage that I'm glad I refunded.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:15
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Zore posted:Its always telling when Witcher 3 comes up that no one ever mentions the gameplay. I've got 500 hours in the game across 4+ play-throughs and never had issues with the gameplay. The only real complains regarding the game that I've seen are from folks comparing the game to the SoulsBorne games. 
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Apr 9, 2019 20:19
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Pattonesque posted:no they want to resolve the conflict between creator and created, that's all they ever wanted to do and that's what mass effect is really about. not reading replies to this! Nice.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:22
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chaosapiant posted:I've got 500 hours in the game across 4+ play-throughs and never had issues with the gameplay. The only real complains regarding the game that I've seen are from folks comparing the game to the SoulsBorne games. Though we all know the gameplay isn't what draws people to the Witcher series. I mean, this is a series that was marketed with nude renders of a female character in Playboy. CDPR knows what their fanbase wants.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:29
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chaosapiant posted:The only real complains regarding the game that I've seen are from folks comparing the game to the SoulsBorne games. Seriously? I hate Witcher combat because it's same old melee. I want range so I don't have to keep skipping around, I want stealth, I want varied spells or skills that are good enough to prevent the need for whack whack whack move whack move whack.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:32
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Cythereal posted:Why do people keep trying to sell me on that game? I do not like Jerry and I do not like the open world, I will not buy it. Because you constantly bring it up probs
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Apr 9, 2019 20:39
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Wolfsheim posted:Because you constantly bring it up probs Mostly I bring it up when replying to people telling me how amazing it is in response to the criticisms I have of Bioware's games lately.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:41
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