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V. Illych L. posted:honestly passive resistance owns bones and is entirely respectable, and its denigration is pretty shameful The point is that France as a whole. Tens of millions of people became voluntary and useful tools in the nazi machine because the nazis planted a flag in Paris. Repression and denunciation on a massive scale made possible with the support of not-literaly-nazis. Things flip from  To what we got on a dime. Because an overwhelming majority of people will accept severe repression of "others" as long as they themselves get to enjoy relative normality.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:38
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if you work in an office and suddenly insist on following every procedure to the letter, becoming notoriously inflexible and stiff to work with, citing obscure bylaws and departmental regulations to avoid punishment, are you a useful tool in the nazi machine? i mean, you're still doing stuff once they bring you all the stupid forms if you work in an arms factory and pretend to have a limp from an industrial accident which really just gave you an ugly scar, are you a useful tool to the nazi machine? you're still actually making guns, just more slowly than whoever they might set to replace you. is this resistance enough for a man with a family that will face severe reprecussions should he be caught in active sabotage? the point being, the calculus for those occupied by a genocidal monster-regime is so hosed up that any peacetime notions of how inadequate their resistance was is a really lovely mentality when you have the italian or hungarian cases right loving there to make your point
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Apr 9, 2019 19:52
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V. Illych L. posted:if you work in an office and suddenly insist on following every procedure to the letter, becoming notoriously inflexible and stiff to work with, citing obscure bylaws and departmental regulations to avoid punishment, are you a useful tool in the nazi machine? i mean, you're still doing stuff once they bring you all the stupid forms Yes some people resisted a bit but the overwhelming majority went along.
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Apr 9, 2019 19:58
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Katt posted:Yes some people resisted a bit but the overwhelming majority went along. there is no reliable evidence for this, since people lie a lot about this sort of things and a lot of civilian resistance is basically invisible like the examples i just mentioned
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Apr 9, 2019 19:59
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hm productivity went down 8% in occupied gascogne's tire factories, is this due to passive resistance, wartime societal upheaval or reduced employment incentives? it's literally impossible to tell
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Apr 9, 2019 20:01
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Um, this is quite the derail from Scandinavian politics... Mp, in a desperate attempt to make sure we never forget just how much they suck, now via the minister of athletics (also minister of culture and democracy, because why not) enthusiastically support a swedish bid for the Olympics. Who cares that Stockholm, one of the places to host this shitfest, does not want it. gently caress everyone if that stupid corrupt poo poo is held here.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:21
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Potrzebie posted:Um, this is quite the derail from Scandinavian politics... I work on Drottninggatan and the summer tourism swells alone are goddamn infuriating. On the other hand, maybe SJ will be taken serihahahahah sorry I can’t I can’t finish.
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Apr 9, 2019 20:49
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I think the 'the resistance didn't do enough' line, is the most hindsight, safe, armchair-'well I personally would have resisted much more', comfortable view a person can take.
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Apr 9, 2019 21:31
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That kind of just proves the point though. If nazis take over even people who think they would do something wouldn't. Whether that's because they are afraid of cops or because they don't want to sacrifice anything is kinda irrelevant.
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Apr 9, 2019 21:45
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Yeah, it's the most important lesson from the milgram experiments. Not that 80% of people will do terrible poo poo, but that 80% of people when they hear about it, totally think they would never have done it. Regardless, it's real loving safe to sit 80 years distant and pass judgement on people for not resisting enough.
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Apr 9, 2019 21:54
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The whole point is that people go "lol so few nazis" when a handful is all that is required. Look at the USA. In something like 2 years they went from "these hicks are kind of racist these days" to congressmen being open nazis and a president that can't even condemn nazis with nazis all over his administration.
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Apr 9, 2019 21:54
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Katt posted:The whole point is that people go "lol so few nazis" when a handful is all that is required. the republican party have been more-or-less openly white supremacist for decades, since the Southern Strategy became their go-to method for winning elections trump is an aberration only in that he's incredibly vulgar, bush was in many respects even worse
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Apr 9, 2019 21:58
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what we're taking issue with, katt, is that your go-to examples of fascists being outsized powerful are countries under military occupation and martial law rather than, you know, the obvious examples of italy (at the time of the march on rome mussolini had single-digits support iirc, though the nationalists all-told made something like 20% in the preceding election) or austria or actually germany where the nazis just utterly balooned following the great depression
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Apr 9, 2019 22:05
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Another thing I think people overlook when they think about the rise of nazism or the potential rise of some new ethno-fascist movement is how many people who condemn Nazism probably do it on a surface level. Nazis were bad because they were racist maniacs who started the biggest war in history and committed genocide. They haven't thought about the aspirations of the Nazis and how those aspirations compare to their own aspirations.
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Apr 9, 2019 22:26
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Much of the European right were busy fellating Hitler right up until the war, though. The Conservative Youth were literally LARP'ing jackbooted stormtroopers in the streets, with proper salute and everything, and still venerate it in song to this day. Only ironically, of course.
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Apr 9, 2019 22:28
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V. Illych L. posted:honestly passive resistance owns bones and is entirely respectable, and its denigration is pretty shameful On the other hand there's my grandma who hid and fed 2 jewish kids for years and told an informer to suck on it when he came 'round knocking. But she was hardcore the likes of which I've rarely seen so there's that.
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Apr 9, 2019 22:49
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https://www.nytimes.com/1939/11/28/archives/hitler-is-greatest-in-princeton-poll-freshmen-put-einstein-second.html Lmao Princeton freshmen voted Hitler "the greatest living person" twice (in 38 and 39 I guess).
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Apr 9, 2019 22:51
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Four more years! https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/mette-frederiksen-vil-ikke-vaere-statsminister-hvis-det-kraever-0
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Apr 10, 2019 11:02
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I would almost prefer it, just because that stupid shitbag social democrat is going "We're not going to compromise AT ALL, not one inch, on the immigration policy the Danish people support so actively, even if it costs us government'. Nice to know all the other poo poo you're campaigning on, like pretending to care about green issues and workers rights, doesn't actually matter, if you can't be monstrously racist as well. If it wasn't for full on nazi policy supporting, 'incapable of feeling empathy for human beings of another skin color' Støjberg, I'd probably prefer a government of moronic neolibs who pretend to be racist enough to get the support of Danish people's party so they get to lower taxes and deregulate business, over true racial purity believers, extreme nationalist party, the social democrats. Truly some good choices coming up this election.
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Apr 10, 2019 11:49
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Revelation 2-13 posted:moronic neolibs who pretend to be racist enough It's sweet of you to believe that. I'm curious as to what exactly happened within S to lead to making Mette Frederiksen their leader. Is the party full of true believers, or was putting their most ghoulishly racist member in charge the result of some realpolitik calculations? They must have realized, on some level, that the end game would be reducing Danish political discourse to "we're concerned that a left-wing government won't be racist enough" "oh, I assure you, we'll be real fuckin' racist and I'd be more than happy to outline just how much we hate people of the wrong skin color."
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Apr 10, 2019 12:48
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And before people get the idea that Frederiksen is just maneuvering, the settlement that placed refugees in a military training area is from before 2015. (Wasn't meant to have kids housed there, though.)
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Apr 10, 2019 12:56
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If they win government it's probably going to Corydon situation all over again. Where the social democrats, because morons still think they're kinda leftists, will get away with implementing the most heinous, neoliberal, bigoted poo poo the right wing wouldn't be able to accomplish in their wildest dreams, because it would mobilize people against it.
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Apr 10, 2019 13:46
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Mercrom posted:Another thing I think people overlook when they think about the rise of nazism or the potential rise of some new ethno-fascist movement is how many people who condemn Nazism probably do it on a surface level. Nazis were bad because they were racist maniacs who started the biggest war in history and committed genocide. They haven't thought about the aspirations of the Nazis and how those aspirations compare to their own aspirations. The nazi debate only relate to the nazis on a surface level and not to real monstrosity of the ideology. Ethnonationalists see nazis as nationalist wanting a strong nation while fighting international finance, while the holocaust was an unfortunate thing to happen. The fact that the holocaust as well as the planned genocide of slavs through is an explicit part of the nazi ideology is pretty much missed. The above is also missed by those that throw around nazi accusations, which basically have the effect of diminishing the utter monstrosity that nazi ideology is. Nazism as such is a phenomena which is wholly dependent on Hitler and postWW1 Germany and the world is a quite different place since then, which make modern accusations of nazism to be more straw men than anything else. Mostly because nazis are the ideal villains, while rascists can also be your racist old uncle.
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Apr 11, 2019 10:38
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Vaguely related, but Assange has been nicked https://twitter.com/richard_littler/status/1116279995482165248 He...isn’t looking great.
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Apr 11, 2019 11:09
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teen witch posted:Vaguely related, but Assange has been nicked "Save me Vlad! you promised!"
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Apr 11, 2019 11:21
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People innocent of sexual assault always hide in embassies for 7 years, right?
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Apr 11, 2019 12:50
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If you're in danger of being extradited to the US, accused of exposing military and intelligence secrets and in obvious danger of being disappeared to a black site, well...
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Apr 11, 2019 13:07
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KozmoNaut posted:If you're in danger of being extradited to the US, accused of exposing military and intelligence secrets and in obvious danger of being disappeared to a black site, well... Reminder that he was already in UK custody and was released on bail when he fled to the embassy. If the US wanted him that badly they could have just made a phone call "Don't release him on bail"
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Apr 11, 2019 13:12
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Assange is obviously paranoid, that goes without saying. It could be a fuckup that they didn't grab him immediately. In his situation, I certainly wouldn't be taking any unnecessary chances.
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Apr 11, 2019 13:36
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Assange is guilty of skipping bail, but I think most people would say that happened under mitigating circumstances. Whether or not he's a sex creep is not really what the embassy stay is about. He's a nerdy dude with a little bit of fame, so even money that he is a sex creep, but unlikely that he is so to any degree that could result in a conviction. In any case it really should not factor into the decision about whether or not he deserves to be turned over to the tender mercies of the US intelligence establishment. That's not a fate we should wish on anyone.
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Apr 11, 2019 23:13
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Paludan's book burnings has so far cost taxpayers 30 million. Articles mentioning his racism conviction still call him an "Islam critic" without fail.
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Apr 13, 2019 11:53
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Katt posted:Reminder that he was already in UK custody and was released on bail when he fled to the embassy. If the US wanted him that badly they could have just made a phone call "Don't release him on bail" He was literally arrested because the yanks told them to.
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Apr 13, 2019 12:11
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He was arrested because Ecuador decided to kick him out. Once that happened he was going to get arrested for something, not just ride away into the sunset.
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Apr 13, 2019 18:44
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Brits took him for jumping his bail first and foremost. The US then wants him as well.
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Apr 13, 2019 18:52
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V. Illych L. posted:if you work in an office and suddenly insist on following every procedure to the letter, becoming notoriously inflexible and stiff to work with, citing obscure bylaws and departmental regulations to avoid punishment, are you a useful tool in the nazi machine? i mean, you're still doing stuff once they bring you all the stupid forms im gay (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 14, 2019 01:41
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I would not really have expected Dagens Industri to be the paper that would run an op-ed calling for a large increase public sector investments, but here we are. I mean, it makes sense, they're mainly talking about the kind of public sector spending that does benefit domestic industry, like infrastructure and defense, but still. They're also right, there's a ton of poo poo to be done and national debt is among the lowest among the OECD countries. Where the hell are you, betongsossar? Build some loving railways and some public loving housing! Quoting article below for people paywalled: quote:”Om den statsfinansiella situationen så medger” har varit en nyckelmening i svensk ekonomisk politik i ett kvarts sekel. Det är dags att sluta med den nu. Sverige har mycket stora investeringsbehov i infrastruktur, utbildning, vård och försvar. Och Sverige har lysande statsfinansiella utsikter.
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Apr 14, 2019 22:25
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Who are in opposition to spending more on healthcare anyway? Just put it straight on the taxes. I don't know anyone who wouldn't accept a 0.5% raise or whatever in taxes to never have to spend a long time in vårdkö again I mean by the time you're 30 you will certainly have seen the worse sides of the healthcare system.
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Apr 14, 2019 22:47
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Katt posted:Who are in opposition to spending more on healthcare anyway? SKL, public sector consultants, a score of misguided M & S politicians and the government.
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Apr 14, 2019 23:16
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MiddleOne posted:SKL, public sector consultants, a score of misguided M & S politicians and the government.
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Apr 14, 2019 23:24
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