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The game doesn't do enough to encourage early automation. There's the biomass burners that you can't automate. Logistics comes way too late (it works in Factorio because you can insert/extract from a belt with inserters to service multiple machines). Your belts are a bottleneck for a while on some products (screws, pure nodes). If you do automate and scale beyond simple setups, you will be constantly feeding your bank of 5 biomass burners. I don't think it's actively discouraging early automation, but Fuzzy Mammal is right that if you setup basic crafting then just hand crafting most of the products is super easy (if not boring). Basically, the automation game doesn't start until coal, and that is a bit silly.
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Apr 10, 2019 02:05
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Try a runthrough where you automate everything from the start When I did it during the alpha weekend, I had like 15 biomass burners running (half of that was running my reinforced plate and rotor portion). That is quite the experience, and would have been pretty fun if I could belt feed burners, instead of having to constantly hand feed them ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 02:10
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CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:I didn't watch the whole thing but whoever it is says that biomass is tedious especially being "that far in the game" and I wonder how bad they are that they still haven't gotten coal if it's really been that long. Vinny had coal. The best part is when they go to the coal, because of what happens to his truck. I had linked to that time in the video but I guess it didn't work?
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Apr 10, 2019 02:17
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As it currently stands, having played two complete games, I gotta say I prefer Factorio in basically every facet. 1) Automation in SF is very late, and handcrafting is ~9 times faster than machine crafting. That's NUTS. Factorio machines start at 0.75x and quickly go to 1.5x midgame, per machine, and you can easily have 20 Assembler 1's in 20 minutes. In SF, I got Rotors/Frames automated and Coal started at 2.5 hours and it felt like I didn't have much room to go faster or parallelize production since I was building biomass plants as fast as I could manage, and even with leaves+wood to biofuel automated in the jungle biome I still hand to handcraft some fuel at times to keep up. To state that another way, you double your ability to mine, craft, everything, with TWO machines (ie your first two burner miners) in Factorio. You'd barely even consider that automation there. You can't outpace handcafting until you get 10 machines including miners, smelters, and constructors (and you can't automate building constructors until late-early game when you research Assemblers, and even then it's a 4 step process, due to the Reinforced Plates). 2) Power is hugely restrictive in SF. To compare again, Factorio has easily ramped-up power facilities in the form of steam boilers that are automatically managed by 10 minutes if you're slow. I haven't done the math, but my experience (ballpark guessing) says you can easily get 50 Assemblers powered with a small starter plant, whereas in SF each Biomass must be hand-fed, the fuel has to be processed twice, and each plant is good for maybe 4 structures or so. 3) In addition, power poles in Factorio autoconnect to each other and power an area-- one click and you're set. Poles in SF are good for 2 machines each, typically. 4) Midgame, the factory becomes a tangled nightmare to walk around. In Factorio it's nothing at all; worst case you have some walls of pipes that block you in. In SF the T3 and T4 belts are velcro: they grab you tight and fling you off into space. Or: they physically block you. Alternatively you can spend a LONG time to build catwalks and detangle, which is admittedly cool and fun, but if you're focused on throughput-building and trying to drill down an objective, fighting your way through a factory or trying to build a path gets old in a hurry. 5) Mid-Late game, Factorio Exosuits and tanks give you a ton of mobility. The SF Blade Runners are pretty nice, but the jump pads are bunk, the landing gel slows you down enough that running ends up being faster (let alone belts-as-transport which tend to be cheaper anyway). Parachutes are consumable, non-renewable, and must be equipped manually. Bad combo. 6) Factorio combat is serviceable, building turret walls and fortresses are cool. No comparison exists in SF -- as far as I can tell the enemies don't even respawn? They never threaten your base, constructions, or vehicles in any way. 7) Factorio Logistic/Construction Bots are, no exaggeration, the single greatest feature I've ever seen in a video game. No comparison exists in SF. 8) Lategame, in Factorio you build bases/mines with dozens or low-hundreds of pieces in a single (or handful) of clicks, because you have the structures themselves ready to go in blueprints and they place instantly with a click. SF lategame is identical to midgame as you must carefully and individually place a foundation for, space out, place, wire up, and connect conveyors to every single structure individually. 9) Nothing in SF fits on a grid  10) Vehicular automation is pretty decent in SF, but they aint no trains Some of these can be handwaved as Early Access: (1) is likely a temporary stand-in as the game develops, (5) feels like a feature set that has room to grow, and (2) has some balance kinks that will probably work out. (6) is purely taste; I like some combat and threat, while many people turn Factorio to Peaceful and that's fine. But (4), (7) (8) and (10) are all things that really don't have too much room to change, they're just intrinsic to a 3D environment with things as they are. (9) I included because  Satisfactory DOES get some points on Factorio though. 1) Graphics and animations are beautiful. In Factorio they're serviceable. The space elevator animation  2) Sound design and music are excellent. 3) Character and humor is a no-brainer, they're absent in Factorio completely. thank you for coming to my TED talk
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Apr 10, 2019 02:59
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Number 9 chaps my fuckin hide, so annoying!
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Apr 10, 2019 03:13
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You get a grid if you lay foundation down
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Apr 10, 2019 03:42
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I'm fairly certain trains are coming to Satisfactory, I think they are even in one of the early trailers.
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Apr 10, 2019 03:44
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ninjewtsu posted:You get a grid if you lay foundation down You can barely call it a grid if nothing is the same size, nor any multiple of sizes related to each other, nor is anything the size of said grid piece Jamsque posted:I'm fairly certain trains are coming to Satisfactory, I think they are even in one of the early trailers. A monorail would be pretty killer
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Apr 10, 2019 03:58
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CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:I didn't watch the whole thing but whoever it is says that biomass is tedious especially being "that far in the game" and I wonder how bad they are that they still haven't gotten coal if it's really been that long. It's because they do it full time. People do do games work like this tend to be kinda bad at games literally because they play so many of all sorts of different types and quickly, and never get to just sit down and play a game at their own pace and absorb the information.
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Apr 10, 2019 04:13
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Evilreaver posted:You can barely call it a grid if nothing is the same size, nor any multiple of sizes related to each other, nor is anything the size of said grid piece I think the designers of Satisfactory just don't care about the Tetris mini-game thing that Factorio does. It's not a flaw, they just decided to make laying out factories complicated in a different way. Satisfactory has made a lot of other decisions that purposefully make it not comparable to Factorio like the whole exploration aspect and their assumption that you'll be building several outpost factories connected by trucks and trains instead of one huge mega installation.
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Apr 10, 2019 15:40
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Nodes aren’t really spread out enough for that and they are currently way too plentiful and dense in the spawning zones especially. Maybe if belts had a power cost that would be realistic but there’s no reason not to build 800 tile belts from a mining site. Power transmission poles should also have some loss so you don’t just keep one giant power grid.
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Apr 10, 2019 16:13
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Demiurge4 posted:Power transmission poles should also have some loss so you don’t just keep one giant power grid. Having to balance a power grid was the worst part of modded Minecraft and would be just as bad in Satisfactory. I just want to build cool factories, not fiddle with wiring so I make sure to step up/step down power for long distance travel or whatnot.
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Apr 10, 2019 16:27
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Demiurge4 posted:Maybe if belts had a power cost that would be realistic but there’s no reason not to build 800 tile belts from a mining site. There is a really good reason: because belts are lame and trucks are cool
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Apr 10, 2019 16:33
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ninjewtsu posted:Did you avoid automating anything beyond the bare essentials, in this game about automation? Yeah, my first factory I actually automated a ton of things with biomass and constantly fought with my power limitations. The second time, I just beelined to coal and I ended up with a better factory in a fraction of the time. The biomass stage is by far the worst part of the game.
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Apr 10, 2019 16:36
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The game seems geared towards building a small factory and exploring while it builds basic components over immediately building a maxed out automated plant at the very start. If you do it the first way, you can hand-build enough parts to get to biofuel and then coal pretty effortlessly. If you do it the second, you are always going to struggle to find enough leaves to stuff into your 148 biomass burners. Maybe if there were fewer resources available at the starting location people wouldn't feel the need to gear up so quickly?
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Apr 10, 2019 17:02
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One of the best things about SF is that you can build on something that's not a grid and I fully plan on writing a mod that lets you turn off the snap to angle/point for foundations and also adds random offsets/rotations to all placed buildings, assuming the modding is general enough to allow for it. Symmetry is a limitation for a weak mind, man. Automated trucks are a) cool and b) much easier to set up than a long-rear end belt line IMO, but most distances aren't very long before oil. The monorails look like they'll be great. Power is real annoying in a couple of different ways. Biomass is at least fleeting and can be powered through quickly if you focus, but the game should really either make it possible to either automate biofuel entirely very early on or force the use of coal before unlocking assemblers. Allowing the player to build assemblers without having coal power set up is purely a footgun as is. However, if there's one thing I really want it's powered walls and foundations that automatically transmit power to any structure built on them and wall/foundation they are attached to. The pole routing minigame is just no fun at all. Ultimately, the game isn't trying to be an exact 3D Factorio, which is probably for the best. It's downplaying the entire mass scale factory logistics aspect in favor of just using small logistics puzzles as a method to force you to explore a (gorgeous) hand-crafted world and build pretty little factories on it. Enemies are only there as an exploration hazard that you need research and factories to overcome, not a survival aspect. Building placement remains purely manual, no botswarms sicne it's very hard to do that in 3D. Unlike Factorio I don't see myself coming back to do any repeat playthroughs after I've reached whatever the "end" of the game/techtree is and presumably explored most of the world in the process: I'm fine with that.
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Apr 10, 2019 17:05
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The whole biomass burner problem could be alleviated by moving coal to Tier 2. Tier 3 seems pretty far along for something so essential as automatable power when T2 has jump pads.
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Apr 10, 2019 17:14
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Xerophyte posted:However, if there's one thing I really want it's powered walls and foundations that automatically transmit power to any structure built on them and wall/foundation they are attached to. The pole routing minigame is just no fun at all. i think these are in the next tiers
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Apr 10, 2019 17:50
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bbcisdabomb posted:The whole biomass burner problem could be alleviated by moving coal to Tier 2. Tier 3 seems pretty far along for something so essential as automatable power when T2 has jump pads. I would be happy with them just having an input. leaves to mass to fuel can be automated, though not the collection. having auto fueled generators goes a long way. once you get the chainsaw biomass collection is a non-issue
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Apr 10, 2019 17:51
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i'm actually more annoyed about having nothing to do with all the biomass i incidentally collect after getting to coal
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Apr 10, 2019 17:52
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I'm still probably mid game right now, just got coal fully up and running, working on getting started with Steel production, and I agree with pretty much everything in this big list of  The game is a lot of fun and I'm definitely still hooked atm but the automation stuff is incredibly slow in some cases compared to just manually making a bunch of stuff. Adding more buildings in to crank out more items is a good way around this but with how much space everything takes up it just gets incredibly overwhelming, and making a tower to look down at from above isn't a great solution as it makes it pretty tough to line poo poo up that's not directly below you anyway (plus I fall off the ladder every goddamn time) I haven't messed with the trucks yet but the idea of that sounds cool, however the drones in Factorio really do give you that level of "Holy poo poo, I've made it" when you walk into your base and you get swarmed with bots taking junk from you and bringing you materials that you need. It's just so cool. And it doesn't sound like there's anything like that planned for this game. It's still early access, and it definitely took Factorio a very very long time to get to the game it is today so I've not totally lost hope however the tail on this game seems a lot shorter than Factorio from what I can tell. Edit: That said, I haven't really done any exploration in the world at all at this point so I'm sure there's some cool stuff out there for me to see, but I was never really one who cared about stuff not related to my base in Factorio and I kind of feel the same way here. I am perfectly happy staying in my area getting an efficient base up and running and don't have much interest in exploring outward unless it's for a distant resource I need. explosivo fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 18:42
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Concerned Citizen posted:i'm actually more annoyed about having nothing to do with all the biomass i incidentally collect after getting to coal Use them on crashed probes
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Apr 10, 2019 18:46
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Honestly I wish there was more going on to the exploration. I don't really want to go through the whole map with a fine tooth comb, I rend to see something like a spire in the distance and go "ah, a landmark, surely there's something cool up at the top of that" and then there's like, a slug. Meanwhile in some totally random spot on the map is a caterium node, which I can't scan for and is necessary for lots of cool items (including faster movement to let me explore better), so I guess I'm just looking up a map on reddit rather than look around for cool landmarks and see what neat goodies are on top of them (it's slugs, it's always slugs)
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Apr 10, 2019 19:24
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Also yeah there really, really needs to be biomass burners that accept an input. Maybe you unlock them at the same time as biofuel? I get what they're doing: early in the game if you want automation, you gotta gather from the area around you, and ideally you say "well while I'm at it let's check out this interesting looking nearby cliff too" and find a mercer sphere or something and go "woah cool what's this" but the way it works, you're either then spending a lot of time hand feeding your burners and not really playing the factory part of the game, or you've not automated at all and don't need much power so you're also not playing the factory part of the game. Exploring us cool, but I want to build a factory before being an hour in! Let me do that!
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Apr 10, 2019 19:29
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when mercer spheres actually do something, I hope it's incredible.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:00
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Is there a dev roadmap one can subscribe to anywhere?
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Apr 10, 2019 20:06
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Concerned Citizen posted:Yeah, my first factory I actually automated a ton of things with biomass and constantly fought with my power limitations. The second time, I just beelined to coal and I ended up with a better factory in a fraction of the time. The biomass stage is by far the worst part of the game. The only problem with biomass is that there's a limited quantity of it on the map. I hope the devs plan to add tree planting eventually and automatable biomass burners. ninjewtsu posted:Meanwhile in some totally random spot on the map is a caterium node, which I can't scan for and is necessary for lots of cool items (including faster movement to let me explore better) If you look carefully, you can find caterium/etc ore rocks which will give you enough ore to unlock the tech so you can scan for it to find the nodes. Speedball posted:when mercer spheres actually do something, I hope it's incredible. Is that the gravitational radiation thing? Hoping it's a true flight pack that lets you stay in the air for a minute at a time. Fuzzy Mammal posted:Is there a dev roadmap one can subscribe to anywhere? the official website quote:
Ambaire fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 21:11
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Is there a dev roadmap one can subscribe to anywhere? https://www.satisfactorygame.com/roadmap I'm a little disappointed with their patches so far. Obviously I'm not expecting a bunch of content in a month, but they should really be able to fix more than 4 edge-case bugs in that time-frame. There are a ton of really tiny requests (being able to wear a jetpack and boots at the same time) and more significant bugs (players getting a new body and leaving behind their old one on every re-log) that really could have been done in a month. Hopefully that kind of development speed won't always be the case.
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Apr 10, 2019 21:19
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Taffer posted:https://www.satisfactorygame.com/roadmap I'm fairly sure that neither you nor anyone else in this thread knows anything of significance about their engine, their codebase, their asset pipeline, their staff levels, their priorities, or anything else that would inform how fast they can patch the game or how complex the fixes you want might be to implement, so maybe ease off a bit with the proclamations about what they can or cannot do in a month.
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Apr 10, 2019 21:41
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Jamsque posted:I'm fairly sure that neither you nor anyone else in this thread knows anything of significance about their engine, It's using UE4, which anyone can download and play with. I think a lot of people know something about the engine.
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Apr 10, 2019 22:14
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I don't know if the list of features on the road map was meant to be exhaustive. I'll bet it isn't. Just wait until the end of the month to see what they put out before you start to panic.
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Apr 10, 2019 23:02
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Factorio has spoiled people with the frequency and amount of bugfixes in each patch, I guess.
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Apr 10, 2019 23:19
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I think we're all just spoiled because we're used to playing a factory game with 5 years of exceptional development behind it, it's hard to jump right into another factory game that's brand new and very incomplete without seeing the glaring differences
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Apr 11, 2019 00:02
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Just got to oil... the closest one is 1800m away. Hopefully the truck route isn't obnoxious.
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Apr 11, 2019 06:53
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Naylenas posted:Just got to oil... the closest one is 1800m away. Hopefully the truck route isn't obnoxious. Just build a conveyor line out there. There's one that's actually a pair of oil pools, and about 2km to the north-easterly. You'll have to do some creative climbing and just bruteforce through some poison gas, but when you put in a conveyor then you will ship in more oil than you can use without some truly massive production works.
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Apr 11, 2019 08:02
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Man, on the one hand now that I've done all the research I want to start over and build a new factory with different design principles, but on the other I don't want to play out the different ways of building factories before patches drop that extend the game further. I feel like it'll be more fun to start over for new content than just staple quartz/sulphur processing onto an existing factory and call it done.
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Apr 11, 2019 11:26
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Taffer posted:I think we're all just spoiled because we're used to playing a factory game with 5 years of exceptional development behind it, it's hard to jump right into another factory game that's brand new and very incomplete without seeing the glaring differences Also 5 years of quality of life improvements. Satisfactory is still quite a fun game without them, but I am hoping some get added very soon (instant/mass deconstructing, multiple equip slots for jetpack+bladerunners+mask at the same time, quick removal/insertion of resources, etc).
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Apr 11, 2019 12:04
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Cobbsprite posted:Just build a conveyor line out there. There's one that's actually a pair of oil pools, and about 2km to the north-easterly. You'll have to do some creative climbing and just bruteforce through some poison gas, but when you put in a conveyor then you will ship in more oil than you can use without some truly massive production works. Yeah I had to do a 1.4km conveyor for my coal supply. I might go truck this time and just build it an absurdly long elevated highway to the oil field.
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Apr 11, 2019 16:34
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Ambaire posted:multiple equip slots for jetpack+bladerunners+mask at the same time, Yeah that's the big one for me. I can put on a gas mask or rollerskates but not both at once? Come on.
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Apr 11, 2019 18:35
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Cobbsprite posted:Just build a conveyor line out there. There's one that's actually a pair of oil pools, and about 2km to the north-easterly. You'll have to do some creative climbing and just bruteforce through some poison gas, but when you put in a conveyor then you will ship in more oil than you can use without some truly massive production works. What I might consider is setting up computer production at the oil site, if there's copper remotely nearby. Speedball posted:Yeah that's the big one for me. I can put on a gas mask or rollerskates but not both at once? Come on. I hate it and totally agree that it's bullshit. All it ends up doing is making me build horrible twisting catwalk ramps around those kinds of places. That said I really disagree that slugs are a lame reward. Once you get into overclocking it's easy to end up just slapping them all over your factory to improve/balance everything, and naturally you run out real quick doing that if you haven't done a ton of exploring. Slugs are actually a pretty great way to bring the factory game and the exploration game together. I hope mercer spheres and those other things end up being fun too.
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