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Raenir Salazar posted:That was the same conversation from before and Fojar basically also thinks I and other rurals shouldn't be able to get an education in the city I guess or something because the train isn't "productive" enough. You know there are ways to travel that aren't trains, right? In the case of your town bus service may have been more appropriate because yes, if it costs way more to maintain train service than the economic multiplier the service brings in then the train is an economic drag (like it is turning out to be in China) I regularly have to go out to rural central Ontario and I typically do that by taking commuter rail and then the bus. This is fine because I recognize that building a rail-line to my rural township when buses are serving typical commuter traffic would be a giant waste even if it might end up being more convenient for me, personally. If you want to talk about Canada's rear end-backwards transit policies you 'ought to be talking about how even bus services to more remote places are getting shuttered. Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 03:40
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Raenir Salazar posted:Baptist Day. This I guess points to a wider cultural gap in this conversation, because in America this is any day ending in y.
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Apr 7, 2019 03:41
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building infrastructure is cool, but have a maintenance cost that you have to pay, if is not creating a profit somewhere (even if is invisible where), its lagging the economy so maybe if what you are building make sense is more important than how much you are building
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Apr 7, 2019 03:44
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A personal anecdote on this topic, here is a photo I took at a Chinese state/private facility that is working on modernizing water infrastructure in Anhui.  I have no idea what that says, but I understand that creature to the right is a living pipe unfortunately, and not a penis. I was working on an unrelated machine, I was just poking around the facility and they had this enormous room full of bizarre concrete troughs and channels, and it had like a weird wave machine in the corner. It was clearly only about 75% complete. My handler told me it would be for testing damns, I assume after reading above posts its to work on this drainage flooding problem. I didn't take any pictures because I wasn't necessarily supposed to be wandering around and it seemed rude. It is an amazing facility and I was blown away by the scope and the money being spent. However I have yet to visit anywhere in China where they didn't warn me not to drink the tap water, the water safety center was no different. I mostly lurk too but I kind of enjoy the hostility in this thread. Having said that please don't yell at me.
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Apr 7, 2019 03:47
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Spectral_beard posted:It is an amazing facility and I was blown away by the scope and the money being spent. This is getting to the crux of the issue. China spends an insane amount of money on infrastructure and yet practical improvements to the problems they are supposed to solve seem to be slow or non-existent. Where is the money going? It has been literal decades of colossal infrastructure investment and expansion and throughout the entire thing there have been constant reports of people talking about how fast everything is being built in China and yet despite all that you can't even drink the water at a literal water purification facility. So, clearly the money being put into certain projects isn't getting where it's supposed to be. This is probably due to China's political system. Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 03:54
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Snipee posted:They are definitely related, and Taishanese does belong in the larger Cantonese language family. However, the two are not very mutually intelligible. It is strange to me that Taishanese is considered a dialect when there are so many entirely different pronunciations and relatively few cognates, but it is rarely questioned that Portuguese and Spanish are considered different languages despite having much more cognates in their vocabulary with a relatively high degree of mutual intelligibility. I suspect that for many Chinese people, there is a general tendency to deemphasize how different we are from each other (that is reinforced by the political desire to maintain the illusion of homogeneity) while many Westerners more simply have conscious or subconscious racist attitudes denying the diversity of Asian people. "A language is a dialect with an army and navy"
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Apr 7, 2019 04:09
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I'm glad we got some Yiddish back in the China thread and it's not even coming from me. Also I just got back from Japan and I could really go for some high speed rail right about now. Just like both America and China can be doing bad things at the same time, they can also be doing good things sometimes, and China's expansion of high speed rail is a good thing.
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Apr 7, 2019 05:12
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY BLOODNOSE 生日快樂! Maybe I need to go to a ruby Tuesday to celebrate
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Apr 7, 2019 08:30
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Bloodnose how pervasive do you think the social credit system is, on a day-to-day basis?
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Apr 7, 2019 23:57
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Grouchio posted:Bloodnose how pervasive do you think the social credit system is, on a day-to-day basis? everybody i've asked about it has responded with some variation on "what are you talking about"
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Apr 8, 2019 10:01
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R. Guyovich posted:everybody i've asked about it has responded with some variation on "what are you talking about" Interesting. What do you think the Chinese government could do to better promote the system and its effectiveness? A lack of awareness of the system could really hamper its usefulness.
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Apr 8, 2019 10:06
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I think there's the Sesame credit by Alibaba which everyone knows. A score of over 550 waives the deposit for several rental services - portable battery and bicycle rentals come to my mind. At over 650 you can get complimentary first class train station lounge access. Alibaba reminds you of your annual sesame score after every Chinese New Year and tells you how much poo poo you have spent. As for the Social Credit System, it's a little hazy and most people don't know/care because most people in China don't really give a poo poo about politics - unless *bad poo poo which may or may not be related to the government happens to them* I'm not so sure if Tencent implemented anything similar to sesame credit in Alipay. Apparently, there are random cases reported in the news of people being BLACK LISTED TO TRAVEL FOR NOT PAYING BACK THEIR DEBT.
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Apr 8, 2019 10:31
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They should be sent to debtor's prison where the next great Chinese writer is born.
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Apr 8, 2019 12:51
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I wonder if people just don't want to talk to Guyovich or he's mispronouncing the word credit or what. Probably most likely it's a privacy thing, but credit rating is at least as important in China (because of all the discounts or restrictions it puts on you, depending on the rating) as it is in the U.S.
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Apr 8, 2019 14:50
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caberham posted:Apparently, there are random cases reported in the news of people being BLACK LISTED TO TRAVEL FOR NOT PAYING BACK THEIR DEBT. that's been the case for a while though, right? especially in divorce cases and such.
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Apr 8, 2019 15:10
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Pirate Radar posted:Interesting. What do you think the Chinese government could do to better promote the system and its effectiveness? A lack of awareness of the system could really hamper its usefulness. fewer gullible people in the west thinking it's a real and pervasive thing would be a good start. individual companies like sesame credit do their thing and some local governments but there is no centralized "credit score" for everyone a la black mirror.
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Apr 8, 2019 16:23
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According to Wikipedia, it's still in the testing phase, so it's doubtful many Chinese people have had to deal with it. Just wait for the glorious year 2020, which is when it and so many other things are apparently going to happen.
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Apr 9, 2019 01:34
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My dream feature is cameras picking up your face while jaywalking and automatically deduct the fine from you wechat redpocket balance.
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Apr 9, 2019 01:41
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Devils Affricate posted:According to Wikipedia, it's still in the testing phase, so it's doubtful many Chinese people have had to deal with it. Just wait for the glorious year 2020, which is when it and so many other things are apparently going to happen. There’s no need to rely on the Wikipedia article that seems to mostly source foreign media reports here. 人民日報 reports that (English link) China will continue to improve the social credit system and that millions of plane and train journeys are already being denied every year.
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Apr 9, 2019 02:09
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R. Guyovich posted:everybody i've asked about it has responded with some variation on "what are you talking about" Maybe you should ask that Q outside of your peer group.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:16
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Pirate Radar posted:There’s no need to rely on the Wikipedia article that seems to mostly source foreign media reports here. 人民日報 reports that (English link) China will continue to improve the social credit system and that millions of plane and train journeys are already being denied every year. yes, and that's the extent of the "system." there's no point score and no other penalties besides what's laid out here. Nucken Futz posted:Maybe you should ask that Q outside of your peer group. maybe you should gently caress off
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Apr 11, 2019 07:01
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Maybe you should consider the bias of your immediate peers in your discussions on this and most types of Chinese repression.
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Apr 11, 2019 07:17
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Like, I bet asking random people about whats going on with those camps they stick class traitors, and people with the wrong religion, or social media site, is a bad idea, and you should ask your friends why.
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Apr 11, 2019 07:20
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drilldo squirt posted:Maybe you should consider the bias of your immediate peers in your discussions on this and most types of Chinese repression. neither you nor that other guy know who my "immediate peers" are and are just making wild assumptions based on what i've said here. i repeat: gently caress off.
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Apr 11, 2019 08:08
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Lol that we're just supposed to take RG's "plural of my anecdote is evidence" statement at 100% face value, and if we want know more about these enthusiastic supporters of social credit we canR. Guyovich posted:gently caress off.
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Apr 11, 2019 11:01
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you won't believe what a beijing cab driver told me about the truth behind jiang zemin
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Apr 11, 2019 11:34
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Known Lecher posted:Lol that we're just supposed to take RG's "plural of my anecdote is evidence" statement at 100% face value, and if we want know more about these enthusiastic supporters of social credit we can i linked authoritative sources on this in addition to my anecdote, which i never claimed was the be-all end-all. for a third time,
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Apr 11, 2019 11:36
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There was a guy who took somebody else's seat on HSR and gleefully show a smiley face when his picture was taken got banned by railroad for X months. I tried to google his doucheface but only got news of another woman who did the same and got banned for 6 months. Personally I don't think 6 month is not long enough, they may not even need to take train again for 6 month. I looked around and not sure if the railroad blacklist and the flight blacklist are linked officially.
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Apr 11, 2019 12:30
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tino posted:There was a guy who took somebody else's seat on HSR and gleefully show a smiley face when his picture was taken got banned by railroad for X months. Like most people shamed online they make an apologetic video but... It was only 2 as far as I know, if it was it the PHD student in Beijing?? Oh and he made another viral video making fun of handicapped people by spinning around in a chair and making dumb voices. Guy got off mostly scot free even though he actually broke railroad regulations and there’s even the rail loving police and nobody stopped his assholish behavior
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Apr 11, 2019 12:36
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The so called almighty social credit black list as far as know right now is kind of weak, especially when it comes to traveling. The officials publish damning reports and all but a total of only 30 people or so are prosecuted per year and the travel moratoriums are temporary. You can argue that the government is cautious on enforcement and try to follow the law so to speak 
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Apr 11, 2019 12:39
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R. Guyovich posted:neither you nor that other guy know who my "immediate peers" are and are just making wild assumptions based on what i've said here. i repeat: gently caress off. Yeah but, come on, come on man. Maybe you have the worlds most honest and educated buddies but odds are they're all bullshit, right? I don't think you're wrong about the social credit stuff but I think it's funny how you're like "Yeah I asked my buddies it's nbd."
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Apr 11, 2019 12:44
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that would indeed be very funny if that had been what i said.
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Apr 11, 2019 14:08
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oh ok
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Apr 11, 2019 14:29
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R. Guyovich posted:that would indeed be very funny if that had been what i said. R. Guyovich posted:everybody i've asked about it has responded with some variation on "what are you talking about" I don’t really think it’s a mischaracterization of what you said.
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Apr 11, 2019 15:30
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R. Guyovich posted:
Ha ha ha, such an eloquent response.
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Apr 13, 2019 19:05
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R. Guyovich posted:yes, and that's the extent of the "system." there's no point score and no other penalties besides what's laid out here. Cat 1:Han chinese: trustworthy (freedom of movement granted) Cat 2:Uyghur:average (restricted access) Car 3:Uyghur males who breaks restrictions on movement religion etc: untrustworthy The camps are filled with category 3 people and families of xinjiang who fled the prc. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 13, 2019 |
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Apr 13, 2019 20:43
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Also civil servants who tried to quit
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Apr 14, 2019 02:57
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Also corpses.
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Apr 14, 2019 06:39
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caberham posted:The so called almighty social credit black list as far as know right now is kind of weak, especially when it comes to traveling. I'm arguing that denying civil services to people for being on a government's black list is fascist as all hell.
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Apr 14, 2019 08:09
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drilldo squirt posted:I'm arguing that denying civil services to people for being on a government's black list is fascist as all hell.
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Apr 14, 2019 17:04
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