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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How would that ever go though? Someone could say "I think shot X looked cool" and you could just say "nah, it's stupid looking" infinitely. Like any of the thor ragnarok album cover inspired shots are stuff that people liked, but no one is going to be able to like, convince you if you wanna start on "no it all sucks". Anyone just making up dumb excuses why a good shot is secretly bad is going to be immediately obvious tho. It's also not about shots you "liked" or trying to "convince" anyone, but posting shots that are technically well achieved. In something like Thor: Ragnarok for example you're going to have the crappy Marvel house color grading to contend with, but teagone had a really good post on the previous page that used Thor 1 as a positive example, and then there was also the deleted scene from T:R that everyone agreed had better color grading, so it's not like this is impossible.
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Apr 11, 2019 18:58
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I'm the guy who thinks Marvel films look alright to good
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Apr 11, 2019 19:04
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm the guy who thinks Marvel films look alright to good Some of them look good. Iron Man 2, Captain America, The Incredible Hulk. It's post-Avengers that things start to get dire.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:07
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Guy A. Person posted:Anyone just making up dumb excuses why a good shot is secretly bad is going to be immediately obvious tho. It's also not about shots you "liked" or trying to Like I said, multiple people have said the thor album cover inspired scenes (the valkyrie flashback, the dragon and the god of thunder jumping stuff) have are good shots. But it's not like there is some critical mass where an opinion can become objective fact if a specific number of reviewers say it so if you just wanna say "no the colors suck, they are bad and dumb" no one is really going to be able to out argue you on if you like them or not.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:07
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm the guy who thinks Marvel films look alright to good That's fine! It's just that there are dozens of great examples that show how Marvel movies are lazy and don't live up to their blockbuster quality. Marvel cuts a lot of corners on these films and that is disappointing. They could be better and should be.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:12
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I said come in! posted:That's fine! It's just that there are dozens of great examples that show how Marvel movies are lazy and don't live up to their blockbuster quality. Marvel cuts a lot of corners on these films and that is disappointing. They could be better and should be. Yeah. It would be weird if we ragged on them at the rate we do if they were on the popularity level of say, Resident Evil films. They're the biggest, most popular movies out there and yet most of them are shot like early 2000s television.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:17
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Detective No. 27 posted:...early 2000s television. Do you think maaaaaaaaaaybe this has to do with AVENGERS being the baseline and the pedigree of the VISIONARY behind that boredom soup of a movie?
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Apr 11, 2019 19:29
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LesterGroans posted:Some of them look good. Iron Man 2, Captain America, The Incredible Hulk. It's post-Avengers that things start to get dire. Yeah, every Phase 1 film except Avengers looks really good compared to everything else in the MCU. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like I said, multiple people have said the thor album cover inspired scenes (the valkyrie flashback, the dragon and the god of thunder jumping stuff) have are good shots. But it's not like there is some critical mass where an opinion can become objective fact if a specific number of reviewers say it so if you just wanna say "no the colors suck, they are bad and dumb" no one is really going to be able to out argue you on if you like them or not. Art is always open to interpretation. Plenty of people also don't really interpret film as an artform and instead prefer to ingest it more as a platform for entertainment. How a movie looks doesn't really mean that much to someone just wanting to have a good time and engage with a good story featuring good characters. And that's cool. But there is a difference in the level of craftsmanship with films that show a deep care in how its aesthetic is handled. Like, you can't really compare the visual artistry of a lovely comedy movie to something like Interstellar. I mean, you could, but that would be dumb imo.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:29
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like I said, multiple people have said the thor album cover inspired scenes (the valkyrie flashback, the dragon and the god of thunder jumping stuff) have are good shots. But it's not like there is some critical mass where an opinion can become objective fact if a specific number of reviewers say it so if you just wanna say "no the colors suck, they are bad and dumb" no one is really going to be able to out argue you on if you like them or not. I'm pretty sure people have said at least the Valkyrie flashback shot is really good? I remember people liking it at the time, I certainly like it, it would be cool to see it posted. The question was about how the conversation would go and you're immediately jumping to "it would go bad so gently caress it, not going to try", assuming nobody can ever post in good faith. Also nobody said "no the colors suck, they are bad and dumb", that is a super reductive take on the legitimate arguments made in the video teagone posted (which itself even called several scenes/shots good).
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Apr 11, 2019 19:33
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Daddy Thanos posted:Imagine all the avengers backing up into their ships doing the settle down hand motion and saying "sorry. sorry. really sorry. won't happen again" and Captain marvel is making a really funny embarrassed face
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Apr 11, 2019 19:35
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Here's a couple shots I found to be at least decent in The Avengers from a while back. I think even SMG said "eh, yeah whatever".     That last shot is kind of neat because we've never seen Tony in that perspective in the suit before. So I'll give it credit for doing a new thing there.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:44
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AlternateAccount posted:Do you think maaaaaaaaaaybe this has to do with AVENGERS being the baseline and the pedigree of the VISIONARY behind that boredom soup of a movie? That's absolutely one of the problems, and it didn't help that Whedon's replacement was a couple guys biggest credit up until Marvel was an episode of Arrested Development. CelticPredator posted:Here's a couple shots I found to be at least decent in The Avengers from a while back. I think even SMG said "eh, yeah whatever". I like shots 2 and 4. With shot 3, I don't think there's enough contrast so it looks muddy. If I weren't at work and had a rip of BvS that wasn't Beavus, I'd post a screenshot of Superman in space during the nuke scene as a comparison.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:04
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Yeah shot 2 is legitimately pretty good, he does some cool stuff with Iron Man in that film, which I guess makes sense since he was the most well established (and because he hosed Cap all the hell up hahaha). Not a shot but I also really like Iron Man's introduction in Avengers. We see him in the suit doing something fantastic and cracking jokes to Pepper. We basically immediately get all the characterization you need from that. I was thinking about it in relation to some of the character introductions in IW, with the Guardians being easily the best and Tony himself being one of the worst (just straight up jogging with his fiance).
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Apr 11, 2019 20:12
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Guy A. Person posted:I'm pretty sure people have said at least the Valkyrie flashback shot is really good? I remember people liking it at the time, I certainly like it, it would be cool to see it posted. The question was about how the conversation would go and you're immediately jumping to "it would go bad so gently caress it, not going to try", assuming nobody can ever post in good faith. Like there is a lot of shots that are widely praised as good shots, but if someone wants to say "no, they are bad shots" no one is going to really be able to do much about that. If someone has decided there is no good shots anyone expending effort is just going to "lose" the argument with the person saying it. because they aren't going to be able to objectively declare a shot good or bad to a person saying it's bad. Like these are shots people liked:    But it's not like you can say "76 people liked it so it's good" or "youtube said the black isn't black so the shot is bad" and have that sway anyone on if they like a shot or dislike a shot.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:19
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like there is a lot of shots that are widely praised as good shots, but if someone wants to say "no, they are bad shots" no one is going to really be able to do much about that. If someone has decided there is no good shots anyone expending effort is just going to "lose" the argument with the person saying it. because they aren't going to be able to objectively declare a shot good or bad to a person saying it's bad. Why are you making a bunch of posts trying to tell people that opinions are subjective? We know.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:21
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I think the Russo's are to blame for a lot of this stuff. They're very competant, but safe, filmmakers.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:25
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Yeah, like, I like all of those shots. You're right you can't stop someone from posting dumb poo poo, but it seems defeatist to assume you're being trolled by bad faith posters who are just going to trick you into making an effort post then being like "nah that poo poo sucks" instead of posting an actual conversation. You don't need to worry about winning or losing, 
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Apr 11, 2019 20:27
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Being informed of different perspectives is the whole point of discourse. These shots are well composed. This shot is badly composed. The difference is quite clear. You can totally make the badly composed shot look just a cool and competent as the above 3 action shots, but they didn't because I don't know why. Because it's not an action scene I guess.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:31
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Bedshaped posted:I think the Russo's are to blame for a lot of this stuff.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:39
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Bedshaped posted:I think the Russo's are to blame for a lot of this stuff. The Russo brothers are basically journeymen. They don't have vision, they don't grasp scale. And why would they? They're loving sitcom directors. It's like, oh, hey, Joss Whedon, who ran some quippy shows, he made some monumentally ugly movies that look like ... well, TV shows! Who would have thunk it?
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Apr 11, 2019 21:09
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LesterGroans posted:Why are you making a bunch of posts trying to tell people that opinions are subjective? We know. Because the original thing was "no one ever rose to the challenge of producing a single really great shot from the Avengers" but lots of shots have gotten praised over the years. And of course you can say "well none of those were actually good" but you'd be able to do that going forward too, no matter what anyone found or what new movie came out.
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Apr 11, 2019 21:11
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like there is a lot of shots that are widely praised as good shots, but if someone wants to say "no, they are bad shots" no one is going to really be able to do much about that. If someone has decided there is no good shots anyone expending effort is just going to "lose" the argument with the person saying it. because they aren't going to be able to objectively declare a shot good or bad to a person saying it's bad. The easy argument to make about Ragnarok is that the rest of the film very deliberately does not look like that, because it would spoil the tone.
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Apr 11, 2019 22:16
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teagone posted:Being informed of different perspectives is the whole point of discourse. it should be noted that, when interviewed for the director position for Black Widow, Lucrecia Martel was flat out told that she wouldn't have to worry about the action sequences. Marvel has guys in-house for that, and everything else is the realm of the actual director (which is a lot more about what they get out of actors, which is probably why the Russo's are successful, because they're good at eliciting performances, if not visual direction)
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Apr 11, 2019 23:09
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DC Murderverse posted:it should be noted that, when interviewed for the director position for Black Widow, Lucrecia Martel was flat out told that she wouldn't have to worry about the action sequences. Marvel has guys in-house for that, and everything else is the realm of the actual director (which is a lot more about what they get out of actors, which is probably why the Russo's are successful, because they're good at eliciting performances, if not visual direction) This combined with the fact that they have people doing CGI sequences before they even start shooting the movie.
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Apr 11, 2019 23:17
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My advice to the avengers:
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Apr 11, 2019 23:48
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DC Murderverse posted:it should be noted that, when interviewed for the director position for Black Widow, Lucrecia Martel was flat out told that she wouldn't have to worry about the action sequences. Marvel has guys in-house for that, and everything else is the realm of the actual director (which is a lot more about what they get out of actors, which is probably why the Russo's are successful, because they're good at eliciting performances, if not visual direction) Thor taking place in a fantasy/cosmic setting lends the in-house crew an advantage I guess; it's a lot easier to make things look cool when you can utilize the god of thunder and valkyries. Also makes sense why there are also choice shots in the GOTG films. And then you have poo poo like Civil War and Ant-Man 2 that's just boooooring visually, action scenes and all.
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Apr 11, 2019 23:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How would that ever go though? Someone could say "I think shot X looked cool" and you could just say "nah, it's stupid looking" infinitely. Like any of the thor ragnarok album cover inspired shots are stuff that people liked, but no one is going to be able to like, convince you if you wanna start on "no it all sucks". That isn't what happened last time, though. People broke down why it didn't quite work and sugested cropping that made it work. Specifically for the first Avengers, it turned out the whole movie was in the wrong aspect ratio (for IMAX, i think) and as soon as you put the black bars on it, it looked a thousand times better. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like there is a lot of shots that are widely praised as good shots, but if someone wants to say "no, they are bad shots" no one is going to really be able to do much about that. If someone has decided there is no good shots anyone expending effort is just going to "lose" the argument with the person saying it. because they aren't going to be able to objectively declare a shot good or bad to a person saying it's bad. The middle shot is superb, and is notable for being very atypical. The rest of the film doesn't look like that. The other two are fine. There's a bit too much empty space in the first for my taste, but it looks pretty good.
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Apr 12, 2019 00:14
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Snowman_McK posted:That isn't what happened last time, though. People broke down why it didn't quite work and sugested cropping that made it work. Specifically for the first Avengers, it turned out the whole movie was in the wrong aspect ratio (for IMAX, i think) and as soon as you put the black bars on it, it looked a thousand times better. Like, out of 16 movies you can't even find one single shot you like then odds are that you are just deciding you simply could not lower yourself to liking a shot from a movie you considered vulgar and beneath you. Like saying there is not enough good shots or whatever is one thing, but saying that it's some unfilled challenge that no one has satisfied you on is crazy. You could watch 16 movies worth of cat food commercials and find at least one great camera shot just by cameraman luck. Saying you can't find even one is just saying you have decided there can't be one.
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Apr 12, 2019 03:40
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like, out of 16 movies you can't even find one single shot you like then odds are that you are just deciding you simply could not lower yourself to liking a shot from a movie you considered vulgar and beneath you. Like saying there is not enough good shots or whatever is one thing, but saying that it's some unfilled challenge that no one has satisfied you on is crazy. You could watch 16 movies worth of cat food commercials and find at least one great camera shot just by cameraman luck. Saying you can't find even one is just saying you have decided there can't be one. Okay. Now read the post you're quoting and respond to that instead of your imagined idea of what the conversation is
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Apr 12, 2019 03:46
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Multiple people are saying several of the shots posted from the various Marvel movies are good. I don't see what the issue is. I also forgot about the cropping thing with Avengers, that was cool. It's fun discussing the craft of these movies.
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Apr 12, 2019 03:57
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like, out of 16 movies you can't even find one single shot you like then odds are that you are just deciding you simply could not lower yourself to liking a shot from a movie you considered vulgar and beneath you. Like saying there is not enough good shots or whatever is one thing, but saying that it's some unfilled challenge that no one has satisfied you on is crazy. You could watch 16 movies worth of cat food commercials and find at least one great camera shot just by cameraman luck. Saying you can't find even one is just saying you have decided there can't be one. Marvel's The Avengers is one movie, not 16
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Apr 12, 2019 03:58
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Snowman_McK posted:Okay. Now read the post you're quoting and respond to that instead of your imagined idea of what the conversation is Yeah, lol. I felt really lost reading this whole exchange.
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Apr 12, 2019 05:37
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Captain America 1 is (disclaimer: in my IMO) the best looking Marvel Cinematic Universe (TM) (C) movie, IMO. This poo poo is just cinematic af. I mean, it's just really cool. The newer MCU movies aren't nearly as cool. Rule of cool don't @ me.         And also, we get some extra juicy Chris Evans which, hell, nobody can deny is pleasurable to the eye: 
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Apr 12, 2019 09:55
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I love the shot of Red Skull’s car pulling into the frame with that dope as gently caress hydra logo on the hood. Captain America is well shot but the camera they used is ugly digital crap. But it doesn’t ruin it for me.
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Apr 12, 2019 10:02
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Owlmans ranting at strawmen aside,"cool" mcu shots are usually nott mentioned cause they ugly as heck Having said that, those shots from cap1 look pretty sweet. Also hugo weaving chewing scenery is always cool Also also, I like how they greased up Chris so he looks even hotter
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Apr 12, 2019 13:37
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McCloud posted:Also also, I like how they greased up Chris so he looks even hotter It comes up a lot but the handsome buff punchmans are not putting on nearly enough gunshows in these films. We've got Captain America 1 and 2 (the chopper scene counts), Man of Steel (I think?), Beavis, and that's about it.
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Apr 12, 2019 14:13
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Thor 1 also had at least one fairly extended beefcake sequence.
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Apr 12, 2019 14:25
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Snowman_McK posted:That isn't what happened last time, though. People broke down why it didn't quite work and sugested cropping that made it work. Specifically for the first Avengers, it turned out the whole movie was in the wrong aspect ratio (for IMAX, i think) and as soon as you put the black bars on it, it looked a thousand times better. IIRC a new way of digitally "lighting" effects shots was invented and used for the first time in that middle shot's flashback scene which is why it stood out so much.
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Apr 12, 2019 14:52
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This is one of my favorite moments in any MCU movie because this is set up like the scene we've seen in a million movies where the bad guy speeds off and the good guy fires wildly at them but they are too fast and far away and everything about this moment is set up exactly like that. But then instead right after that shot it cuts to her headshotting the driver without issue. 
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Apr 12, 2019 14:55
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It's been a while since I've seen the film, but I remember that foot chase after the guy sabotages the lab being a really good, well-shot action setpiece.
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Apr 12, 2019 15:11
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