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Update on my speaker wiring shenanigans, I caved in and also got lucky to source some UV-resistant speaker wire. It can be buried, but I would still have done conduit where I did because nothing in the specifications says it would take a few good whacks from a weed whacker. So I still have to keep rain from easily getting into the conduit but I don't have to try to cover up the wires right up to where I connect them to the speakers. At this point, I would dismiss drilling directly into the posts just because these wires have a pretty chunky sleeve on them; I think I'll be questioning my life choices trying to get holes like them through my posts.
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Apr 11, 2019 21:06
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I’d get a big ole metal drill bit and go to town on that fence pole and run it through there. I bet you can even find rubber grommets for the holes you’ll make if you Google a little. The whole thing will look cleaner and you won’t need to worry about a squirrel chewing through that poo poo (happened to my string lights 2 years ago) or what happens when it gets sun blasted.
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Apr 11, 2019 22:21
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Rocko, a "cable gland" is literally the right thing for a waterproof exit from a conduit.
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Apr 11, 2019 22:52
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insta posted:Rocko, a "cable gland" is literally the right thing for a waterproof exit from a conduit. I didn't mean to sound dismissive about the cable glands. I had two problems: sealing the conduit, and protecting the exposed wire. So I was saying today I solved the latter. Tonight I am hoping to get cable glands at Lowe's. Hoping... Edit: This is not a Lowe's thing, is it? Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Apr 11, 2019 |
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Apr 11, 2019 22:58
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Update on my speaker wiring shenanigans, I caved in and also got lucky to source some UV-resistant speaker wire. It can be buried, but I would still have done conduit where I did because nothing in the specifications says it would take a few good whacks from a weed whacker. So I still have to keep rain from easily getting into the conduit but I don't have to try to cover up the wires right up to where I connect them to the speakers. At this point, I would dismiss drilling directly into the posts just because these wires have a pretty chunky sleeve on them; I think I'll be questioning my life choices trying to get holes like them through my posts. You always want to use something rated for wet conditions when running through conduit underground. For HV applications, that's THWN. For LV, you want burial rated cat5/6/7 or burial rated speaker wire. Moisture will get into your conduit, you need the appropriate cabling for that eventuality. Rocko Bonaparte posted:I didn't mean to sound dismissive about the cable glands. I had two problems: sealing the conduit, and protecting the exposed wire. So I was saying today I solved the latter. Tonight I am hoping to get cable glands at Lowe's. Hoping... I can tell you that my 12AWG 2 conductor burial rated speaker wire is pretty thick. Not sure what gauge you're using but using undersized wire brings a whole extra set of problems if you aren't using a 70 or 100v amplifier. Here's a decent chart on power loss for speaker wiring: https://www.diamondcut.com/AppNotes/wirechart.pdf Just remember you have to count the distance to the speaker and back. Edit: And here's a good chart for 70/100v speaker systems: https://www.lowellmfg.com/wp-content/uploads/What-Gauge-Speaker-Cable-Should-I-Use.pdf 30 TO 50 FERAL HOG fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Apr 12, 2019 |
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Apr 12, 2019 01:00
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Yeah you say that after I tried to sort it out at Lowes. They started doing something crazy with plumbing PVC and I backed away. Since I took a few days extra off for a vacation this weekend, I'll probably run all this and just jury-rig something while I get the proper things to really finish it off. I'm also having a fun time mounting the speakers without it looking like complete trash. The new wire is 14/2. It measured as precisely 5/16" thick based on my calipers (alternately, .3235mm) and completely round. It has a UV-protective coating and is rated for direct burial. My longest course comes up around 91 feet. For 8 ohm speakers, it's definitely close from what I recall but within limits. I had done a test with comparable length of throwaway 16-gauge cable while I was just messing around with positioning and such. For watching Jaws projected against the side of the house while we're floating in the pool, the audio was "fine" and nothing exploded. These are the high standards with which I'm working. I can't really say I tested the endurance of the amplifier doing this for a whole summer or something. One of the ends of my conduit runs would need a cable gland that could support two of these wires. I also need to stop thinking it's called a "cable bladder."
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Apr 12, 2019 04:56
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The best thing about Lowe's is they put your expectations right in the name to save you time. edit v: lol. somehow you gotta get a shirt from any local contractor and just storm through the place as fast as you can walk looking really pissed off. all those fucks will give you a wide berth. also helps if you smear drywall dust all over your clothes, arms and hair. Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Apr 12, 2019 |
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Apr 12, 2019 05:27
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In that case, I wish Home Depot would change their name to "Nice Shoes! Are You Interested in Solar Panels or a New Air Conditioner Installation Today?"
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Apr 12, 2019 05:33
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:In that case, I wish Home Depot would change their name to "Nice Shoes! Are You Interested in Solar Panels or a New Air Conditioner Installation Today?" I put this on every survey I get from HD. Worse than panhandlers.
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Apr 12, 2019 11:47
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:In that case, I wish Home Depot would change their name to "Nice Shoes! Are You Interested in Solar Panels or a New Air Conditioner Installation Today?" Just say "I rent"
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Apr 12, 2019 13:42
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devicenull posted:Just say "I rent" Sure but at that point, I've already lost the mental model I had that was testing the fit of the thermocouple I was staring at and thinking of buying.
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Apr 12, 2019 14:14
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Lowe's is fine for a lot of things, but when I was running a new 60a circuit to my garage and needed sch 80 it was quite surprising to realize that they didnt carry any schedule 80 at all. I went to an electrical supply and they almost couldnt be bothered with selling a single guy $100 worth of conduit but it worked out.
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Apr 12, 2019 15:00
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Motronic posted:Go take a picture of your breaker panel. Then sketch out a floor plan showing where that is in relation to where you want the 240v outlet.  Will this do? I want it along the same wall, about 15-20 feet down. I don't care if it goes through the ceiling joists (exposed in the basement) or along the bare walls. woof, the quality is poo poo. Let me re-take it. Cannon_Fodder fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Apr 12, 2019 |
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Apr 12, 2019 16:22
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Cannon_Fodder posted:
This is the easiest job in history. 1) Your panel has spaces open, you need 2 for 240v and you have two next to each other. 2) The distance is short 3) Ceiling is open for wire run, or you can use conduit along the walls since I'm guessing this is a garage or something similar. If you did this yourself, it would be $50 in materials and 2 hours of your time. 30 TO 50 FERAL HOG fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Apr 12, 2019 |
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Apr 12, 2019 16:58
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:This is the easiest job in history. This is an unfinished basement. I figured I was pretty set up, but I don't know much about it. Thanks! How do I sell this to an electrician without sounding like a mook? I'm set to parrot what you posted. Doing this myself sounds pretty scary. How dangerous is it?
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Apr 12, 2019 17:04
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Cannon_Fodder posted:Hello thread! This is a great diy project if you want to tackle it yourself. Are your basement walls studded out or bare concrete? Either way, you'll need to protect the wire from the joists to the outlet itself which can be done by stapling it to the inside center of a 2x4 stud or running it through a bit of emt. Check what the amp rating is on the saw to determine the wire and breaker sizes. Assuming it needs a 3-wire, 20 amp circuit (does the saw come with a cord?), you'd need 30' 12/2 romex, a 220 HOM breaker, a nail on box, an outlet and cover, a 2x4 to fasten against the wall, a 1/2" romex connector, and a few romex staples. For tools you'd need a drill with a spade bit, hammer, flathead, knife, wire strippers and maybe sidecutters and a phillips. Assuming there's no big issues to work around and it's as simple as going from the panel up through the joists and then down to the outlet I'd guess you should expect around an estimate of $150 (maybe $250 in larger areas, I don't do billing and am not really sure). edit: missed BE and your response. If you call an electrician, let them know the distance and that it's an unfinished basement. Tell them the amp rating on the saw and that it's 240V, and that you have breaker space. If you give them this info it probably won't be worth their time to make a preliminary stop for an estimate/plan and they'll do it in one stop. If you want to do it yourself we can sure help. edit: and 30' of romex will leave you with plenty, not sure if it's sold in 25' lengths which might be enough Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Apr 12, 2019 |
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Apr 12, 2019 17:14
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Excellent. I'll watch some videos to see if I'm comfortable. I don't have the saw yet. I have a deal with a friend's elderly father. He is selling off his shop and I'm buying up a lot of the equipment. I need to swing by and pick it all up. Can't do that for a few weeks. I'm doing all the prep I can before bringing the stuff in. Even if I never get to wire up the saw, I'm still getting a hell of a deal on this stuff. It's nice to know I'll have a decent setup soon though  .
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Apr 12, 2019 17:26
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Cannon_Fodder posted:This is an unfinished basement. If you want to DIY it you're well within the realm of able to learn. If you don't there is no harm in calling an electrician. Assuming the panel isn't recessed into the wall it's really easy. Do you own a multimeter? The most dangerous part of this is if you need to route wire past where your main breaker is, which you can probably easily avoid by taking a slightly longer route out of your panel. Once the main breaker is off most of your panel is dead, and we can teach you how to verify that. Take a wider shot of your whole panel so we can see all four sides with some margin of "garage" around it. If you want something to directly parrot: "Hey, I want to install a 240v tablesaw in my unfinished garage. The walls are made of <concrete|2x4s>, and it's around 25 ft from my panel. It's a square-D with 2 adjacent spaces open. I can text you a picture of the panel and the specs on the tablesaw if you like?" (The specs placard is going to be something that says like "220V 1-Ph 20A, X HP". Find that or get a link to the exact tablesaw online. This isn't likely your tablesaw, but it's an example: https://cdn0.grizzly.com/specsheets/g1023rlwx_ds.pdf )
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Apr 12, 2019 17:34
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:I went to an electrical supply and they almost couldnt be bothered with selling a single guy $100 worth of conduit but it worked out. While I have your attention: are wire glands generally male threaded? I am inclined to just put a female coupling on my conduit for now and proceeding in the short term. I doubt I would get the final stuff before the weekend is up.
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Apr 12, 2019 17:38
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Blackbeer posted:
I have everything in bold. What's the sidecutters? Realized I'm an idiot and looked it up. I have those as well.
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Apr 12, 2019 17:44
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:This drives me nuts. I needed some wires for an underground electrical run that I could not find at the local Lowes. The electrical supply near me would only sell it in a volume an order of magnitude more than I needed. There's approx. eleventy-fucktillion on Amazon if you wanna poke around. I tried a search of "cable gland npt" and a ton came back. You'll have to sort through on your own to find one that fits your pipe & cable.
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Apr 12, 2019 17:52
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Cannon_Fodder posted:I have everything in bold. What's the sidecutters? You could get by without them, but they're the easiest way to remove the knockouts on the panel cover to make room for a new breaker. I grew up calling them dikes but got in the habit of not calling them that after some weird looks from customers. "Diagonal cutters" looks like the term I should have used. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 12, 2019 |
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Apr 12, 2019 18:03
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Cannon_Fodder posted:I have everything in bold. What's the sidecutters? If you have an opportunity to pickup an augur bit to use instead of the spade bit it's worth it. It will make drilling through the joists 10x faster and safer since you don't have to push nearly as hard while standing on a ladder. Also figure out your sawdust collection at this time too. If you managed to get a nice dust collector along with that table saw make sure you have a nearby outlet & enough spare capacity on that outlet's circuit to run it too.
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Apr 12, 2019 19:59
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Blackbeer posted:You could get by without them, but they're the easiest way to remove the knockouts on the panel cover to make room for a new breaker. I grew up calling them dikes but got in the habit of not calling them that after some weird looks from customers. "Diagonal cutters" looks like the term I should have used. Side cutters is pretty common in the UK. I swap between all 3.
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Apr 13, 2019 15:14
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Lineman's pliers, thanks.
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Apr 13, 2019 15:28
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I find linesman's pliers a little bulky. I prefer strippers and a pair of dikes.
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Apr 13, 2019 17:09
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"Kleins" Also, you'd probably want to pull #10 over #12. Just a hunch without seeing the specs on the saw.
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Apr 13, 2019 17:37
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Ferrule posted:"Kleins" Come to think of it, if they are putting in a workshop amount of tools would it make more sense to embrace scope creep and add a few hundred dollars of materials to install a subpanel?
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Apr 13, 2019 17:44
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H110Hawk posted:Come to think of it, if they are putting in a workshop amount of tools would it make more sense to embrace scope creep and add a few hundred dollars of materials to install a subpanel? Maybe. He could pull a couple #8s and put in a sub panel. But he'd need to check how much he's drawing whole house. If he's running a bunch of stuff at once might cause an issue. I can see a 2-pole 20 and a 2-pole 30 so he's got, I'd assume, and electric dryer and a/c. edit: and a sub panel is only going to help separate circuits for the workshop, so table saw on 2, a drill press on 1, outlets on another, etc.
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Apr 13, 2019 17:53
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 what? (re:sub panels) Love the feedback. Bit confused. As far as dust collection, I'm going to pull that off a dif circuit. 110 on that one. As far as an augur goes, I have a brace with some bits that will do a lovely job. Most of my work so far has been hand tools. I don't anticipate needing much beyond the table saw. If, in the future, I grab a large bandsaw or something, I'm going to grab a real professional and run wire to my garage. I'd be out of room in the basement.
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Apr 13, 2019 21:55
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Cannon_Fodder posted:
Fair enough, you aren't really wasting anything. (You can just move the breaker.) Just wanted to let you know it was an option if you had bigger plans than 1 table saw.
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Apr 13, 2019 22:14
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I mean, you could run a sub panel. But considering its 20 feet away, I'd just sooner replace the entire panel so you have more spaces.
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Apr 14, 2019 02:56
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Post of a picture of a post: I'd try to run the pvc up behind the fence so you can secure it to the big pipe, but that's just me. If you're stuck with the arrangement as shown, use a union and run the pvc up a lot closer to where the speaker is going to be (with a tiny offset so it runs up against the big pipe). The get a tight radius 180 (or two 90's) and let it act as a drip cap. If the wire comes out toward the ground, you're not going to get water in there.
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Apr 15, 2019 03:46
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Once again, thank you all for the advice. I will keep an eye on the thread and check in once I'm better positioned to begin planning the new 240v plug. In the meantime, I've got a dumpster to rent, a basement to empty, and about 2 thousand pounds of equipment to procure and drive across the state. 
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Apr 15, 2019 18:14
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kid sinister posted:Let us know if you find any aluminum. Nothing too horrible so far! All the cloth insulated wire looks to be copper. I've replaced about a dozen outlets and a half dozen switches and I am currently not dead.
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Apr 15, 2019 22:05
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Sometimes being not dead is the best you can hope for.
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Apr 16, 2019 03:38
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:wait you actually have to bend emt/pull thwn for every box in chicago?
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Apr 17, 2019 21:39
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GWBBQ posted:Used to be that you even needed conduit for low voltage.
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Apr 18, 2019 04:13
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I only recall "stubbing" conduit for low-voltage - like, a 6 inch piece through the bottom or top plateor whatever so it was "protected" when going through a hole drilled in wood. Also, if there were full runs of low-voltage (commercial iic) you can't share pipe between low/high. Some inspectors/union guys would get pissed if we'd pipe a run for phone/data while running our electric since we're already up there on the scaffold or in the attic or whatever, even if the phone/data guys also worked for us. "Nah, youse need to be a Phone Guy to run that pipe. Take it out".
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Apr 18, 2019 14:47
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that's the dumbest poo poo i've ever heard. around here if the data guys need any conduit we get paid to build it, then it doesn't matter because they just drag their poo poo all over the place as fast as possible and leave it lying in tangled messes in the ceiling all over the place and can you tell i think they're all a bunch of idiots? we've been called back because someone in our company forgot to put a string in one of the data rings and the fucker putting the cat6 everywhere said it was impossible to do his job. show up, fish string into wall in three minutes right in front of him, leave. lazy prick. Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Apr 18, 2019 |
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Apr 18, 2019 18:18
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